Remington 870 won't shoot straight

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I have owned this Remington 870 Express Magnum for about 30 years. I probably went more than 20 without shooting it once, until I started trying to kill a turkey about three years ago. Now I'm thinking I want to try it for deer. I've been trying out various ammo, including buckshot and rifled slugs. It shoots terrible. I thought it was me, but even when I brace against a tree, it's terrible. Here's a target with 00 buckshot at 25 yards (not braced), and another with rifled slugs, braced, at 40 yards. The buckshot scattered so badly that only a few even hit the paper, none near the bulls eye. These two I'm showing you used an improved cylinder choke, but I've also tried a modified choke and there's not a lot of difference. Yesterday I tried five Federal Premium Trophy sabot slugs, at $2.00 a round. The first two, braced at 40, missed the target completely. I moved to 25 yards, freehand, and only one of the remaining three hit the paper.

Any ideas what's going on? Am I doing something wrong, or is it the shotgun?
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Several things,
First, a shotgun is NOT a precision weapon. It intended to be fired at flying/moving targets using smaller shot, not large round balls or even a single ball.

Second, the barrel of a shotgun is smooth, no rifling so it has no means of stabilizing a solid projectile, let alone multiple projectiles such as buckshot.

Third, Some stock barrels do better than others but to achieve best results you should look into a special purpose barrel that IS rifled and normally has rifle type sights intended to shoot slugs. Buckshot is not a very good weapon for deer.

This akin to taking your Toyota Corolla to Charlotte Motor Speedway and racing against one of the NASCAR cars. Buckshot can be very effective, but at much shorter distances and slugs can be deadly IF a dedicated barrel (intended to fire said slugs) is used and properly sighted.

Hope this answers your question, if not there will be 25 to 30 people along shortly to dispute everything I've said.....
 
Good answers above. I have a Win 1300 Defender that with buckshot can barely hit a 5 gal bucket at 7 yards. Without a rifled barrel the only other option would be a longer barrel or to use smaller shot.
 
We were talking about this during Turkey Season this year and my cousin was talking about his buddy that missed 3 Tom's early in the Delaware season. He was saying that you have got to try several brands and types to find out what your shotgun likes.

I never thought about load matching like you would a rifle, but I think it may have some merit. Shotgun is a crude instrument but I can see that it would prefer certain types or loads over others.

Anyone have any thoughts on this or is cuz telling tall tales?
 
There is significant merit to load testing for your shotty.

My mossy 12 has always done well. Seeing "blunderbuss" and "crude" to describe a shotgun is confusing to me. As a teen wandering the woods, I used my 500 12g for squirrels because I found a #6 load that allowed me to be take longer shots, as using 20 or .410 would limit my range and bag for the day due to the wary nature of animals in the area (.22 was out due to houses).

Since then it has long had a HD 18" barrel (was 26"). That bead only barrel (tritium dot) puts all 8 (9?) 00 buck, cheap S&B on a 12x12 at 25yds free hand. It will also put Remington sluggers on a 4" target easily at 50yds.

At the same time some Winchester slugs from that same gun I was lucky to hit paper...

Gotta load test for sure but in my limited experience and limited skill with a shotgun taught me it has its place as an arguably kinda technical skill set to be used in almost any roll unless you gotta reach out a ways to make contact. Just gotta find what it likes :D
 
Rifle sights? Remember if not your eye becomes your rear sight, if your stock and/or cheek weld is not aligned/done properly you will be off sometimes quite a bit
First things first, shim adjust stock and shoot from a bench rest with consistent cheek weld till you have your "rear" sight proper....I think you may be surprised at how well you smoothbore throws decent slugs.....ymmv
 
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I had one that shot high and right. Missed a turkey with it. Come to find out the choke was bored wrong so it shot off poa. I called Remington and they sent me a new one and it fixed my problem.


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I think the OP has a legit issue. I've had many shotties over the years and all of them, even the cheapo's did better than what he describes. My latest cheapie is a Hatfield from WM and it patterns federal 7 1/2 shot POA on the X no matter the distance.

Is the barrel rifled?
I would guess not. Possible I suppose, but an 870 express is not gonna be a top pick for such a barrel. The barrel would cost almost as much as the gun.

My suggestion would be to forget about trying to get this particular gun to work better. It just ain't worth it unless you have money to burn time to kill and lots of patience.
Sell it/store it and get something more suited for serious hunting. After that, you could fool with it if you felt inclined. But to try and get a problem gun to work for hunting will only be frustrating and probably never work like you want. You'll always be suspect of it's ability to perform regardless of trial and error. If you just gotta have an 870, find an old Wingmaster. They were excellent and still outshoot just about any comparable pumper.
 
I have very little shotgun experience. But in doing a bit of research when deciding to build two SBSs, I was consistently told that ammo could easily play a bigger part of the equation than the choke would.

Try some FliteControl ammo and see if it improves.
 
That looks about right for 25 yards with improved cylinder with 00 buck. My experience with cylinder-improved cylinder with heavy shot is about 1 inch of spread per yard......so at 25 yards a 25 inch spread sounds about right.
 
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That first target is not bad for OO Buck at 40 yards. Buckshot loads, especially the larger sizes, open up very quickly and leave huge holes in the pattern. I have shot only a few slugs, but the second picture looks pretty good for slugs at 40 yards for a shotgun without rifle sights braced against a tree. You didn't let the gun touch the tree did you?

Shotguns are fairly short range weapons unless you have rather specialized barrels and sights. Even then, they do not have the same range as rifles.
 
My two 870's shoot #1 buck shot much better than OO. They Pattern better with modified choke barrel than with improved cylinder but not by much.

I stopped buying OO buck years ago for that reason.

Slugs? Forget it unless you have a barrel designed for slugs.

Also calling shotguns "shotty" or "shotties" is kinda strange.
 
I qualified with shotguns for a long time and never saw a buck pattern like that. They usually only spread about 5 inches at 25 yards. We qualified out to 40 yards with buck and slugs and even cops who only shot to qualify were able to keep the shots on target. I can't get my head around the concept that one might not be able to hit paper at those ranges.

Try borrowing someone else barrel and see if that improves your group. You surely know someone who has an 870.
 
I went out today with a friend who also has an 870, though his only holds 2.75" shells, while mine is a magnum. Guess what? Both our guns, shooting the same ammo, seemed to shoot about the same. Using 00 from 40 yards, he got 3 bb's on the paper. So I guess that's the absolute limit for 00. We didn't do much better for rifled slugs, either. I want a clean harvest, so I'm going to keep it to 25 yards. I have a good scoped deer rifle, but you must be elevated in Wake County, and I'm getting tired of hauling that climber 3/4 mile through gamelands in the dark. But tonight, after 20+ slugs, my shoulder is too sore to shoot anything!

@Friday I hear what you are saying. It's about confidence, and I just don't feel confident that I can get a clean and humane harvest beyond 25 yards. And my crossbow is pretty effective at that range, so why bother with a shotgun?

I might start playing around with the 870, maybe getting a rifled barrel or even a scope, just to see what it can do. As you can tell, I don't know much about shotguns and learning would be fun.

@nc-by-the-c I had never heard of shim adjusting a stock until your post. I don't know if this old 870 can be adjusted, or even if it's wrong, but I'm going to be looking into it and checking my cheek weld. Thank you.

You didn't let the gun touch the tree did you?
I did brace it against the tree. Sounds like that was a mistake. Can you tell me more?
 
I did brace it against the tree. Sounds like that was a mistake. Can you tell me more?

It is not a good idea to rest or brace any firearm against a hard surface because it may affect where the gun shoots. The firearm, IIRC, will shoot away from the hard surface. A rifle rested on a hard surface will tend to shoot high. I use hard surfaces quite a bit to help me steady my aim but always have something soft between the hard surface and the firearm. When using a tree as a brace, I put my hand on the tree and rest the firearm on my hand. The firearm never touches the tree when being fired.
 
I went out today with a friend who also has an 870, though his only holds 2.75" shells, while mine is a magnum. Guess what? Both our guns, shooting the same ammo, seemed to shoot about the same. Using 00 from 40 yards, he got 3 bb's on the paper. So I guess that's the absolute limit for 00. We didn't do much better for rifled slugs, either. I want a clean harvest, so I'm going to keep it to 25 yards. I have a good scoped deer rifle, but you must be elevated in Wake County, and I'm getting tired of hauling that climber 3/4 mile through gamelands in the dark. But tonight, after 20+ slugs, my shoulder is too sore to shoot anything!

@Friday I hear what you are saying. It's about confidence, and I just don't feel confident that I can get a clean and humane harvest beyond 25 yards. And my crossbow is pretty effective at that range, so why bother with a shotgun?

I might start playing around with the 870, maybe getting a rifled barrel or even a scope, just to see what it can do. As you can tell, I don't know much about shotguns and learning would be fun.

@nc-by-the-c I had never heard of shim adjusting a stock until your post. I don't know if this old 870 can be adjusted, or even if it's wrong, but I'm going to be looking into it and checking my cheek weld. Thank you.


I did brace it against the tree. Sounds like that was a mistake. Can you tell me more?
You say on the paper. How big is that paper? In your first pic I see 8 holes. Barrel length?

Also specific chokes and ammo make a world of difference in a shotgun.
 
FWIW, I have an older 870 & 2 barrels. One is the 28" vr it came with and the other a 20" smoothbore with rifle sights.

Pattern with the 28"vr is about what you'd expect with various chokes. 20" is spot on with Brenneke slugs and a full choke tube out to 100yds (compensating for drop). It's been so long since I shot 00 buck I can't report on that patterning.

In short, I'm not much help, but hate it you're having trouble with an 870. Mine is one of my favorites for all-around shotgunny stuff. I hope you find what's ailing yours and put 'er to good use soon.
 
Just a couple things that I thought of. Use the proper ammo for the intended job. OO buckshot is no where close to being effective on turkey, even at close distances. Go buy some ammo meant for turkey hunting. Second, use the proper choke. An IC choke may be ok for the skeet field, not for turkey hunting. "Turkey" chokes are typically tighter than "extra full" choke tubes (opposite end of the spectrum as compared to IC chokes) given you have to hit a target, the head of a turkey, which is about the size of a baseball at mid-moderate distances. Do these two things and I will bet that you will harvest a few birds this upcoming season.
 
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Proper ammo and choke. My 870 SM with an extended turkey choke will put approximately 30 pellets in the head and neck of a turkey target with #6s. Change that load to #5s which have less shot per shell and my hits in the head and neck area will double at 40 yards. Does not have to make sense to know which load I am using. Need a turkey choke and experiment with ammo brand and size shot.
 
Well, today I had the pleasure of meeting a guy I met on a hunting forum, and he had an 870 rifled barrel. We first tried some sabot slugs, and it was just as bad as my standard barrel. Then we tried Winchester 2 3/4 hollow point rifled slugs. Amazing difference! This is from not quite 50 yards, braced with a shooting stick. Needless to say, I came home with that barrel. (And a bruised shoulder from shooting those sabots).

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I have very little shotgun experience. But in doing a bit of research when deciding to build two SBSs, I was consistently told that ammo could easily play a bigger part of the equation than the choke would.

Try some FliteControl ammo and see if it improves.
I use the flight control out of the serbu and it works wonders.
 
Well, today I had the pleasure of meeting a guy I met on a hunting forum, and he had an 870 rifled barrel. We first tried some sabot slugs, and it was just as bad as my standard barrel. Then we tried Winchester 2 3/4 hollow point rifled slugs. Amazing difference! This is from not quite 50 yards, braced with a shooting stick. Needless to say, I came home with that barrel. (And a bruised shoulder from shooting those sabots).

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I was fixing to say saboted slugs are for rifled barrels only it will even say it on the box. The old fashioned rifled hollow point is what you need to shoot with any smooth bore shotgun if you get where you know the drop on your gun you can shoot them really easy out to 75 yards and know you'll hit what your aiming at. I've used the old rifled slugger as they call them from Remington for well over 30 years in fact got my first big buck with one at close to 100 yards he was in middle of a pasture on side of a ridge. Buckshot don't use the home defense stuff (low recoil) its useless for any type distance get the regular full powered buckshot you'll notice a really big difference and you don't gotta get the magnums all the time. Try them you'll see a difference I bet money on it
 
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