Remington Workers Given Notice

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georgel

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I'm not holding out much hope for them...



ONEIDA COUNTY, N.Y. (WUTR) — Remington Outdoor Company, the owner of the Remington operation in Ilion, notified 585 union workers in Ilion on Friday that they are being terminated effective Monday, October 26.

The United Mine Workers of America, the union that represents the rank and file in Ilion, released a statement on Sunday that announced the termination notification and reported that Remington Outdoor was ending health care and other “contractual benefits” for the terminated effective October 31.

The union’s release also contends that Remington Outdoor is refusing to pay severance and accrued vacation benefits provided for in the collective bargaining agreement.

Remington Outdoor Company filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in July. In September, the company was broken up in a bankruptcy auction.

Roundhill Group LLC was the top bidder for the Remington operation in Ilion. In the auction, some of the products manufactured in Ilion was acquired by another company. But the new Remington owner has said that despite losing that line, the new owners intend to bring back the same level of workforce in the valley.

Richmond Italia, who is part of Roundhill Group, said, “If we do close down Huntsville, and Sturgis, and Lenoir City, and concentrate them under one roofline, which will be Ilion, that will more than replace the employees that were lost on the Marlin line.”

Cecil Roberts, UMWA President, says that the union has filed a series of grievances against Remington Outdoor and are exploring other legal options. The union statement concluded with this comment, “If they think they can get away with this without a fight from the UMWA they had better think again. Our members in Local Union 717 earned those benefits. We are going to do everything we can to ensure that they get them, and then continue working to get the plant reopened under new ownership as soon as possible.”


www.localsyr.com

Remington workers given notice

ONEIDA COUNTY, N.Y. (WUTR) — Remington Outdoor Company, the owner of the Remington operation in Ilion, notified 585 union workers in Ilion on Friday that they are being terminated effective M…
www.localsyr.com www.localsyr.com
 
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Cecil Roberts worked 14 weeks as an apprentice in US Steel Mining in Gary WV before he went union. Now he leads the UMWA.... which probably had a part in raising expenses for Remington.

Also, Asset Bidding against the Company is not the same as buying the company outright. (Liabilies and All Payables)

This was a liquidation of assets to cover the long-term debt; however, if enough money was paid to cover the debt (unlikely), the payables, Then the employees would get their severance.

Cerebrus should have done the noble thing and laid back the funds for the employees.... but; if Roundhill is going to collapse into one roof in Ilion.. those workers will be needed. And if I was Roundhill; I would pay them more and say no union. Just my thoughts... but I am bias against the UMWA... long story, but not a fan.
 
In bankruptcy, wages owed is just another unsecured debt to be claimed against the filing company. The secured debt will be loans with property as collateral or bonds with an indenture giving them priority just like a first mortgage on your home has priority over a second mortgage or home equity loan. Sadly, earned vacation pay or even their final paycheck are at the back of the line.
 
Howland said:
In bankruptcy, wages owed is just another unsecured debt to be claimed against the filing company. The secured debt will be loans with property as collateral or bonds with an indenture giving them priority just like a first mortgage on your home has priority over a second mortgage or home equity loan. Sadly, earned vacation pay or even their final paycheck are at the back of the line.
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I’m pretty sure that current payroll is at the front of the line, the idea being that otherwise as soon as a company filed all the employees would be working for free, would quit instead, and that makes things worse for the senior debt. I do believe that you’re right about accrued vacation time.

On a positive note, the bankruptcy judge can claw back certain payments to executives.

About the union, they get paid to fight for their members, and they fight dirty. If I’d bought the company I’d take the opportunity to relocate to a more business friendly environment and wish the unionized ex employees well. If I needed their skills I’d probably offer them contract work, maybe paying the best more than they were making before.
 
Cerebrus never does anything nobel, they line their own pockets. They let Remington go on a buying spree, no reason for them to get into handguns.
 
Button Pusher said:
Cerebrus never does anything nobel, they line their own pockets. They let Remington go on a buying spree, no reason for them to get into handguns.
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Cerberus invests other people's money and has a legal fiduciary duty to put the interests of its investors ahead of doing noble stuff.
 
If anyone thinks that gun manufacturing is going to happen in New York state, that person is dumb. Most manufactures are moving south. Kimber, just this week released press about the move to Troy Alabama and HIRING for all new positions. Meaning not bringing the union to Alabama. Mayodan needs to bring in more companies. We have a strong gun industry here in NC, I hope it grows beyond the current manufactures.
 
gc70 said:
Cerberus invests other people's money and has a legal fiduciary duty to put the interests of its investors ahead of doing noble stuff.
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That's an important point that many people choose to ignore. The primary color of the business community is green.

However. With a name like Cerberus you have to expect some nipping at your heels.

Of course a large group of adventurous 2A supporters could form a similar group and make bids on Remington-like projects.
 
Mine Workers Union?

I guess it's a gold mine for the union execs
 
JBoyette said:
If anyone thinks that gun manufacturing is going to happen in New York state, that person is dumb. Most manufactures are moving south.
Click to expand...

This is due both from the regulatory and "right to work" aspects.

I owe my job of 25 yrs to a similar move from Wisconsin to NC because of the union demands.
 
Round Hill Group needs to take advantage of the opportunity to get out of NY.

As bad as it is for the employees and the Ilion community, it is a result of the environment created by the community and state as a whole. Taxes, legal risks, political risks, labor cost, and of course the union. Employ them on a contract basis for 6-12mo to maintain production, while aggressively moving operations to a more business and 2A friendly state.
 
Im laughing at the contract work idea. Knowing their jobs are being shipped out, you expect those workers to happily churn out the worlds finest firearms...you're more likely to be robbbed blind and have millions of dollars of property destroy.

Ask the marlin workers how much help they provided remington when they moved production.
 
Diablos said:
Im laughing at the contract work idea. Knowing their jobs are being shipped out, you expect those workers to happily churn out the worlds finest firearms...you're more likely to be robbbed blind and have millions of dollars of property destroy.

Ask the marlin workers how much help they provided remington when they moved production.
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Have done it, no doubt it takes additional management and creative incentives. On the other hand, this is not a large business, moving it would not be terribly difficult and they’d get significant grants for retooling, new hiring etc at their destination.
 
they tried the move to bama and did get a bunch of money from the state, but it turns out they didnt want to pay the costs for skilled labor.
 
Diablos said:
they tried the move to bama and did get a bunch of money from the state, but it turns out they didnt want to pay the costs for skilled labor.
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Wasn't that somebody else? I remember the article. Just don't remember who.
 
georgel said:
Wasn't that somebody else? I remember the article. Just don't remember who.
Click to expand...

it was remington, they opened in the old chrysler building. i've heard pay was a major issue in keeping skilled workers on the line (and in that area i believe it). iirc alabama is trying to get the incentive money back.
 
Diablos said:
it was remington, they opened in the old chrysler building. i've heard pay was a major issue in keeping skilled workers on the line (and in that area i believe it). iirc alabama is trying to get the incentive money back.
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Remington's not the only company having trouble paying the going ate for skilled workers.


https://www.news-journalonline.com/...o-expand-in-daytona-beach-instead/5799316002/


Roebuck said he originally planned to immediately build a new headquarters campus on 68 acres in Maryville with the goal of beginning production there in 2018. He also intended to create 350 jobs there.

Those plans were delayed by an unexpected industry-wide slump in gun sales. He decided last year to temporarily lease a 10,000-square-foot building next to the site of his planned future headquarters "to see what it was really like to do business in Tennessee."

While Tennessee and Blount County economic development officials "immediately made me feel welcome," Roebuck said he discovered that it was harder than he anticipated to find available skilled workers.

And more costly.

"Labor costs in Tennessee are 30% more than here (Daytona Beach)," said Roebuck. He attributed that primarily to the presence of a large manufacturer in Maryville where the starting pay was much more than he could afford to offer.

.
 
exactly, the idea that any meathead can put together a quality firearm is absurd. you want a skilled workforce, you pay them, henry ford knew when he was building cars at the turn of the century.


why or why cant colt turn out pythons like they used to. well those guys with the hand fitment skills are gone, and the guys that know how to work on them are gone too. and the ones that know how to do the work arent going to do it for peanuts.

supply and demand, for $15hr these companies are competing with the state itself. pays more money to sit on the couch and collect ebt
 
Diablos said:
exactly, the idea that any meathead can put together a quality firearm is absurd. you want a skilled workforce, you pay them, henry ford knew when he was building cars at the turn of the century.


why or why cant colt turn out pythons like they used to. well those guys with the hand fitment skills are gone, and the guys that know how to work on them are gone too. and the ones that know how to do the work arent going to do it for peanuts.

supply and demand, for $15hr these companies are competing with the state itself. pays more money to sit on the couch and collect ebt
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It goes beyond the production line. I am a marketing / product manager in the gun industry now. Every skill I use, I can use in a different industry. My rate is the market rate for my position.

Secondly, guns are a bad margin. Dealers are lucky to get 10% over distribution. Distributors are lucky to get 12% to retail. Manufacturers are lucky to get 31% over cost. Includes 10%/11% TTB

So how does that pricing model play out?

Retail a sell price is $500
Retail buy price $450
Distributor buy price $405
TTB tax. $40.5
Manufacturer profit $81
Manufacturer cost $284

That shows you that a $500 pistol cost $284 to manufacturer. Of that manufacturer cost, 50% is taxes
 
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unfortunately, we've seen the gun world transition from one of quality products first to one of throw it out the door and do recalls if necessary.
 
Diablos said:
unfortunately, we've seen the gun world transition from one of quality products first to one of throw it out the door and do recalls if necessary.
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I think that's based in flash to bang time in product development. The best products have 24-36 months of testing before go to market. With the JIT mindset, investors don't have plans past 18month ROI.
 
JBoyette said:
It goes beyond the production line. I am a marketing / product manager in the gun industry now. Every skill I use, I can use in a different industry. My rate is the market rate for my position.

Secondly, guns are a bad margin. Dealers are lucky to get 10% over distribution. Distributors are lucky to get 12% to retail. Manufacturers are lucky to get 31% over cost. Includes 10%/11% TTB

So how does that pricing model play out?

Retail a sell price is $500
Retail buy price $450
Distributor buy price $405
TTB tax. $40.5
Manufacturer profit $81
Manufacturer cost $284

That shows you that a $500 pistol cost $284 to manufacturer. Of that manufacturer cost, 50% is taxes
Click to expand...

I think your math is off here? Cost is $284 TBB tax is $40.50 how are you getting 50% of the manufacturers "cost" is taxes? Maybe you meant to say the taxes paid on said gun is 50% of the profit the manufacturer makes?
 
georgel said:
I'm not holding out much hope for them...



ONEIDA COUNTY, N.Y. (WUTR) — Remington Outdoor Company, the owner of the Remington operation in Ilion, notified 585 union workers in Ilion on Friday that they are being terminated effective Monday, October 26.

The United Mine Workers of America, the union that represents the rank and file in Ilion, released a statement on Sunday that announced the termination notification and reported that Remington Outdoor was ending health care and other “contractual benefits” for the terminated effective October 31.

The union’s release also contends that Remington Outdoor is refusing to pay severance and accrued vacation benefits provided for in the collective bargaining agreement.

Remington Outdoor Company filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in July. In September, the company was broken up in a bankruptcy auction.

Roundhill Group LLC was the top bidder for the Remington operation in Ilion. In the auction, some of the products manufactured in Ilion was acquired by another company. But the new Remington owner has said that despite losing that line, the new owners intend to bring back the same level of workforce in the valley.

Richmond Italia, who is part of Roundhill Group, said, “If we do close down Huntsville, and Sturgis, and Lenoir City, and concentrate them under one roofline, which will be Ilion, that will more than replace the employees that were lost on the Marlin line.”

Cecil Roberts, UMWA President, says that the union has filed a series of grievances against Remington Outdoor and are exploring other legal options. The union statement concluded with this comment, “If they think they can get away with this without a fight from the UMWA they had better think again. Our members in Local Union 717 earned those benefits. We are going to do everything we can to ensure that they get them, and then continue working to get the plant reopened under new ownership as soon as possible.”


www.localsyr.com

Remington workers given notice

ONEIDA COUNTY, N.Y. (WUTR) — Remington Outdoor Company, the owner of the Remington operation in Ilion, notified 585 union workers in Ilion on Friday that they are being terminated effective M…
www.localsyr.com www.localsyr.com
Click to expand...


www.al.com

Remington sale begins; machinery sold at Huntsville plant

Bankruptcy court approves sales of part of Remington portfolio.
www.al.com www.al.com

sad.... otoh, I do believe Schumpeter is right.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
I have an R1 enhanced 1911. It's not a bad gun.
but i don't have a storage bin dedicated to remington parts like i do for other brands, if you get my drift.
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I was thinking of the R51 which looked kinda odd then got promptly recalled
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
www.al.com

Remington sale begins; machinery sold at Huntsville plant

Bankruptcy court approves sales of part of Remington portfolio.
www.al.com www.al.com

sad.... otoh, I do believe Schumpeter is right.
Click to expand...

Wow... Schumpeter..... We have educated folks on this here forum... and folks who know that the most underrated genius was Joseph Schumpeter.. he called it long ago... and even knew that Paul Samuelson wasn't worthy of a Assistant TA.... I didn't know that.. .just know that after I shook the Theory out of my head, Samuelson just introduced analytical theory into a world that was just starting to have the ability to measure economic mechanisms, more than anything else.
 
JBoyette said:
I think that's based in flash to bang time in product development. The best products have 24-36 months of testing before go to market. With the JIT mindset, investors don't have plans past 18month ROI.
Click to expand...
Indeed.. .and it is just not the firearms industry.... it's ALL industries.
 
VA_GENTLEMAN said:
Wow... Schumpeter..... We have educated folks on this here forum... and folks who know that the most underrated genius was Joseph Schumpeter.. he called it long ago... and even knew that Paul Samuelson wasn't worthy of a Assistant TA.... I didn't know that.. .just know that after I shook the Theory out of my head, Samuelson just introduced analytical theory into a world that was just starting to have the ability to measure economic mechanisms, more than anything else.
Click to expand...
I don't know anything..... I only have the ability to recognize people who DO know something, and am content with that.


Economics in One Lesson by Hazlitt is avail for free right now at Mises.org, btw.
 
wvsig said:
I think your math is off here? Cost is $284 TBB tax is $40.50 how are you getting 50% of the manufacturers "cost" is taxes? Maybe you meant to say the taxes paid on said gun is 50% of the profit the manufacturer makes?
Click to expand...
Very good question.

First, my math being wrong? Heck yeah! Lol

Ok 50% let's go to this.

It's imbedded tax: payroll + tax in overhead, fuel, etc...

TTB is just 10 or 11% of sell price.

That's what my point is
 
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Seems to me the art of fine or just workmanlike gun making died a while ago. Rifles are more accurate than ever, but I miss blue steel and walnut. These corporate raiders kill any goose for a feather, like Cabellas. Our debased currency makes anything but mass produced crap impossible.
 
Interesting. This may explain why I could find very little information on the Roundhill Group when I tried to research it earlier.
 
Howland said:
In bankruptcy, wages owed is just another unsecured debt to be claimed against the filing company. The secured debt will be loans with property as collateral or bonds with an indenture giving them priority just like a first mortgage on your home has priority over a second mortgage or home equity loan. Sadly, earned vacation pay or even their final paycheck are at the back of the line.
Click to expand...
Interesting.
As a vendor to a large US corporation twenty some-odd years ago when they filed Chapter 11 they stiffed my employer for $40k in fees they owed us for work I had done, because they could. We were unsecured debt.

After they reorganized they did another $100k in business with me/my employer and paid promptly. Funny how that works.
 
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