Reports of 5 officers shot in Florence Co SC

SSgt75 said:
Again, the media doesn't know that M-14s are NFA items and what he probably had was an M1-A. But it's not black and scary like those fully semi-automatic ARs that the military uses and that civilians can buy without a trace.
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Not to dispute your last sentence there, but the nomenclature regarding the "M-14" is not exactly unambiguous. M1-A, as I understand it, is the Springfield trademark for their semi-auto version (copy) of the M-14. On the other hand, for example, James River Armory's rifle series is denoted as M-14 albeit that they are (NFA compliant) semi-auto (mine - one of the older Rock-ola versions - has a notch gap there near the back of the receiver where the full auto selector mechanism was removed). One can see these - the newer versions - advertised, say, here: https://www.classicfirearms.com/m14...-stock-bula-parts-jra-national-match-edition/ .


[edit to add]

The officer killed, Terrance Calloway, was a 30yr decorated veteran on the force, who was not in the warrant serving team, but rather died trying to rescue his fellow officers. RIP.
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Et lux perpetua luceat ei.
 
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The son oughta be castrated, warrant was to collect the son for charges on the 27yr old sexually messing with their 10yr old foster child
 
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Sounds like a bad plan with at least Some info available. They had guns that they Never intended to shoot because of children in the house. Easy to look back with 20/20 But knowing what they knew maybe a little different plan to engage a bad situation knowing you can't shoot into the house. Anyway, it's all done now. Hopefully there are many lessons to be learned.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Sounds like a bad plan with at least Some info available. They had guns that they Never intended to shoot because of children in the house. Easy to look back with 20/20 But knowing what they knew maybe a little different plan to engage a bad situation knowing you can't shoot into the house. Anyway, it's all done now. Hopefully there are many lessons to be learned.
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Which may be why they tried talking first.

I heard an unconfirmed rumor that at least a couple of the officers shot were from a block or more away. Maybe someone has heard about this.
 
J R, I have given this too much thought I am sure BUT with what I know from LEs from Florence there is now a theory that every person hit was hit where he meant to hit them except the dead officer. This man was an accomplished marksman. The only bad shot he made all through this was the one that killed the officer. He was supposedly a Champion Rifle shot as little as 10 years ago. It's a thought.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
J R, I have given this too much thought I am sure BUT with what I know from LEs from Florence there is now a theory that every person hit was hit where he meant to hit them except the dead officer. This man was an accomplished marksman. The only bad shot he made all through this was the one that killed the officer. He was supposedly a Champion Rifle shot as little as 10 years ago. It's a thought.
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He was a high power shooter at MCRC; they’ve been getting calls from the press and had to buzz competitors in one at a time yesterday for security reasons

This article gives more details than I’ve read to date:

https://www.thestate.com/news/state/south-carolina/article219477870.html
 
The police acted with out a proper plan and lost.

This was not an active crime, it was serving a warrant, they died because of lack of planning and training.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
The police acted with out a proper plan and lost.

This was not an active crime, it was serving a warrant, they died because of lack of planning and training.
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Why don’t you tell us what they should’ve done
 
Burt Gummer said:
Why don’t you tell us what they should’ve done
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Not my job, I'm not an LEO.

But, as we can tell for the reports, they were woefully unprepared to service this warrant. They knew there were guns on the property, they even brought their own rifles.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
Not my job, I'm not an LEO.

But, as we can tell for the reports, they were woefully unprepared to service this warrant. They knew there were guns on the property, they even brought their own rifles.
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Not your job but you know how it should have been done. I guess they should just roll up in the APC for every warrant where the guy might have a rifle? Oh, wait a minute, that would be too much militarization of LE. Maybe they should have just walked unarmed through the gunfire like Andy does in Mayberry? Please tell us how it should have been done.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
When 5 LEO get shot and 1 dies, they messed up....
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First of all you should try getting it right if you are going to keep spewing this nonsense. It was 6 officers shot and one dead. And if you read the article they had called ahead and had an appointment to interview the suspect. Also they had a search warrant not an arrest warrant. So they had NO idea they were going to be ambushed when they went there. Not to mention

OfficerCarraway took cover behind his car about 275 yards away, the official said. He was shot in the chest while trying to move to a spot behind a brick wall.

Another officer was 500 yards from Hopkins’ house but got struck by a .308-caliber round. The bullet size is the same that is fired by an M14, the rifle that Hopkins had said he used in competitions.

So how do you plan for this kind of ambush when you are just going there to interview someone?? And please so tell us with all the worldly experience with Law Enforcement you have what they did wrong?
 
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When I lived up in NH, a local PD decided to serve a high risk warrant with a tactical raid. Suspected drug dealer was well prepared. Killed the Chief and seriously wounded another officer. They used an armored DoD gift to screen and recover the wounded officer and eventually sent a robot in which observed the dead perp and his just as dead girlfriend. He killed her then himself.

In that case, knowing the potential for violent resistance, a better plan might be to observe the perp and do an MV stop when he left the house with plans to block him in should he get the idea to run. Most perps don't bring a rifle to the grocery store. Pistol, maybe. Rifle, not so likely.

In this case, it appears they just drove into the driveway and knocked on the door, which is likely the most appropriate way to deal with a suspect when they do not expect violent resistance. Stop and think before suggesting that every unpaid parking violation ends up with an o'dark-thirty no knock SWAT raid. I don't want to live in that world.

When they do things condemnable, I'll be the first to condemn them. Bringing pedophiles to answer charges in court is definitely on the list of things I agree they ought to be doing.
 
The guy was a high power shooter making 200yd offhand shots easily. They didn’t stand a chance with the approach the had

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11B CIB said:
The guy was a high power shooter making 200yd offhand shots easily. They didn’t stand a chance with the approach the had

kYriLJ0.jpg
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Maybe if the police did some research about the people they are going after, they would have know about this guys ability to shoot. It seems to me that police have forgotten how to gather information, even though we are in the computer age. First step in operation should be the gathering of intelligence, seems this step is missed a lot by LEO's.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
Maybe if the police did some research about the people they are going after, they would have know about this guys ability to shoot. It seems to me that police have forgotten how to gather information, even though we are in the computer age. First step in operation should be the gathering of intelligence, seems this step is missed a lot by LEO's.
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Ability has absolutely 0% to do with this. They had no reason to believe the father would do what he did. It doesn’t take a hi power shooter or a war veteran either. All it takes is the desire to do so.

Most people don’t have any prior training or experience in being a suicide bomber yet they can press a button on a vest like a champ and end a ton of lives.

There are a ton of people who think Vets should be on watch lists as it is, thinking like yours just adds to it.

I hope they don’t serve a warrant at Chad’s house: research suggests he might slather them in baby oil and wrestle naked with them :rolleyes:

That’s the most absurd thing I’ve read in a long time
 
11B CIB said:
That’s the most absurd thing I’ve read in a long time
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The reason it is so absurd is that hating on cops is all this guy knows. When they go in too prepared its over militarization of a civilian force, why can't they be peace officers. Now its well they F up and should have done a better job.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
Maybe if the police did some research about the people they are going after, they would have know about this guys ability to shoot. It seems to me that police have forgotten how to gather information, even though we are in the computer age. First step in operation should be the gathering of intelligence, seems this step is missed a lot by LEO's.
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I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall responding to you, but I will. First of all READ THE ARTICLES. AGAIN, they were NOT GOING AFTER THE SHOOTER. And what operation are you talking about?? They had an APPOINTMENT to INTERVIEW the son. Most interviews are usually casual events. So using your thinking when the police go to interview someone they should research every family member. And lets just suppose using your thinking they did and out found out the father was a Veteran and a competition shooter. So should they then plan a tactical approach driving up in an APC with a swat team in full body armor for the interview??? For someone that was not even involved in the interview. And if they did you be spouting off how police are over using military tactics on civilians. Sorry, the post you made makes no sense and from what I've read from some of the posts you made in the past you are just anti police. So no matter what they do or how they handled it they are wrong as far as you are concerned.
 
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How many LEO's does it take to conduct an interview that they had a scheduled?

I would not say anti-police, I would say very neutral.

I do not trust the police anymore than I trust the criminals.
 
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AR10ShooterinNC said:
How many LEO's does it take to conduct an interview that they had a scheduled?

I would not say anti-police, I would say very neutral.

I do not trust the police anymore than I trust the criminals.
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Well if you took the time to read the articles you might see that it looks like a couple went first to talk to the son. The others seemed to be shot responding to the calls for help according to the articles since the shooting went on for two hours.
 
I’ve been as critical as anyone on the behavior of cops at times. But they were serving a simple warrant. Not invading Normandy Beach. I really don’t want tax dollars being spent on officers spending 6 hours a day doing tactical assault plans for every single warrant that crosses their desk. That is a level of militarization and taxticool foolishness that is beyond the pale.

The guy who did the shooting doesn’t appear to have been even part of the warrant action. The cops walked into a situation where they were outgunned, our flanked, and out shot.

This situation was an anomaly of anomalies. Starting in on the “they dun messed up.” Is neither helpful, accurate, or even intelligent.


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It was said in another thread that better than 99.99% of the population will be compliant to the cops. It was also said that this has lead to training and procedures, such that when they encounter that percentage that will not be compliant that the results are disastrous for the cops. The alternative, however, is a full on militarization which is even less desirable and would be indicative of a country nobody here would want to live in.

I've also noticed that it's pretty much the same crowd that howls in outrage when someone turns on the cops that gets gleeful in the threads where they face plant someone and they talk about how they should carry things like black jacks and will make you comply. I find that juxtaposition to be rather ironic.
 
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