Rifle on it's way... Scope mount question

Frack N Cylons

Frack N Cylons

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Tikka CTR .223 24" is on it's way! I wanted the 20" but 24" was in stock and I don't think I'll mind a few extra FPS for a bench rifle.

I was originally going to do a gas gun but all the parts were adding up to just a couple hundred less than just getting the CTR, aaaaannnnd I just wanted the CTR.

I have an SWFA 10x42 to work with at the moment. These get solid reviews so it may stick around awhile, or at least until I know what I do and don't like. This brings up my questions...

This rifle is very much a learning tool for me and at some level I don't know what questions to ask. The CTR does come with a pic rail, but how would I know if it is sufficient or if I need a wedge base? Also, how do I determine what height (and brand for that matter) scope rings to go with?

Still reading and learning....
 
frakncylons said:
Tikka CTR .223 24" is on it's way! I wanted the 20" but 24" was in stock and I don't think I'll mind a few extra FPS for a bench rifle.

I was originally going to do a gas gun but all the parts were adding up to just a couple hundred less than just getting the CTR, aaaaannnnd I just wanted the CTR.

I have an SWFA 10x42 to work with at the moment. These get solid reviews so it may stick around awhile, or at least until I know what I do and don't like. This brings up my questions...

This rifle is very much a learning tool for me and at some level I don't know what questions to ask. The CTR does come with a pic rail, but how would I know if it is sufficient or if I need a wedge base? Also, how do I determine what height (and brand for that matter) scope rings to go with?

Still reading and learning....
Click to expand...

The tikka picatinny base is very good. It is 0 moa though so if you want to shoot at distance you’ll want a 20 moa scope mount for it. If you go that route it doesn’t get better than Spuhr. As far as height I would say 1” would be fine for a 42mm scope.


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frakncylons said:
Is this essentially just a function of the amount of scope adjustment I have?
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A 20 moa base or mount will get you more adjustment enabling you to shoot further. It adds cant to your scope. So instead of it taking 34 moa to get to a certain distance it only takes 14 moa of scope adjustment.


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What's the longest distance you expect to shoot ?
600 yd with .223 match bullets is ~15MOA; a 10MOA base is the same 5 MOA delta vs a 20 and less extreme.
Remember that you have to go down all those clicks to shoot at 100-200 . . . 20MOA is a big ramp.

450 yd is less than 8 MOA; gotta get to 700 to need 20. Unless you are shooting past 500 I would use a flat base [zero MOA.] Not enough windage to worry about running out of clicks.

Put a cheap bubble ring on your scope [or base] to keep cant in check. Learn to use both eyes . . .
 
BigWaylon said:
@frakncylons

Not sure how you level a scope…but you’re welcome to borrow my Arisaka leveling kit if you want to try it.
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I have the same kit and could help you out one day at Frank’s Place
 
Jmoser said:
Remember that you have to go down all those clicks to shoot at 100-200 . . . 20MOA is a big ramp.
Click to expand...

I've done a fair amount of long range shooting, but am by no means an expert. Help me understand this statement.

If I zero at 100 yards and my elevation adjustment at x yards is 15MOA. I'll need to dial up 15MOA to make my hits at x yards. And then dial back down to get back to 100.

It would not matter at all if my base is 0MOA, 20MOA, 30MOA....the adjustment from 100 to X is till 15 MOA.

Having a canted base doesn't give you a "head start" on your elevation adjustments, it simply gives you more RANGE of adjustment within your scope's capability. Remember, that if you go from 0 to a 20MOA base, your 100yard zero needs to be adjusted "down", without dialing down, adding that 20MOA base just put you 20MOA over the target at 100.

The benefit to a canted base is the 'extra' elevation adjustment within your scopes capability. If your scope is advertised as having "30 MOA of adjustment", that is meant to read as 15+/- from the center of adjustment. Most scopes zero at 100 just about at the center point of the available adjustment. SO, adding a canted base allows you to have your zero well below the midrange of the scope's available adjustment.

OR, I'm completely full of poo. It is Friday after all.
 
Zbizzle911 said:
A 20 moa base or mount will get you more adjustment enabling you to shoot further. It adds cant to your scope. So instead of it taking 34 moa to get to a certain distance it only takes 14 moa of scope adjustment.


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Click to expand...

only if you don't adjust your 100 (or whatever) zero, right? A canted base does not give you a 'headstart' on your elevation changes.
 
So basically you like to keep your scope as close to middle of +/- adjustment range as you can, you will be closer to the middle at short range with a lower MOA base.

Honestly not many folks really need a 20 MOA base.
 
Yea this is starting to make sense. I don’t know exactly where my 100yd zero is at the moment as I don’t have the rifle, but I think I should be able to run the scope through its elevation travel and calculate if I have enough room to work with out to my expected 700 yards. My gut says I will. Then I’ll just have to decide if I want the rifle to be set up for 1000 as a just in case measure, it’s not impossible that I visit another range.

The scope is mil/mil,…. I haven’t gotten used to one system or the other but mil seemed like the slightly better choice for me. I’m not opposed to switching or even becoming fluent in both mil and moa.

The scope did come with SWFA medium rings (as a Black Friday deal) that may or may not suck. I might just try them out first with the factory pic rail before I start dropping more money. Did I mention CTR mags are expensive? 😬

It also came with a bubble level and sun shade.
 
Tim said:
only if you don't adjust your 100 (or whatever) zero, right? A canted base does not give you a 'headstart' on your elevation changes.
Click to expand...

It allows you to use more of your clicks. Let’s say you have 40 moa of vertical movement and your 0 is at 20. That’s means you can only come up 20. If you have a 20 moa base you could come up the entire 40 because your 0 would be at -20.


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I got Strelok Pro this morning and have been playing around with it quite a bit. That’s an awesome app!

Things are starting to gel a bit. My scope has 20mil up and 20 mil down adjustment. After punching in some loads into Strelok, it seems that the load I’m playing with (basic 77gr load) would require 14.9mil up to land a bullet at 1000 yards.

Let’s just say that all of the planets align and my rifle zeros perfectly at 100 yards with the scope dead center in the middle of its travel, then with that load, I should have no problem getting to 1000 and would in fact have 5.1 mil more to work with.

This means I should certainly have no problems at 700 yards, which is what my range offers, with a 0moa base. For that, only 7.1mil up is required.

Of course, all of this will have to be tightened up with a chrono and some actual measurements and shooting.

Or all of this is completely wrong, in which case I’d like to hear about it.
 
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For practical ranges of .223, you dont need to add any elevation. The factory rail is fine. Scope height is somewhat of a personal choice, I like to keep my scope low as possible. Pick a set of rings you like and look at the specs......there will be a height measurement. Apply this measurement to the specs of your scope-particularly the objective lens. Like they said, level the scope to the rife to eliminate cant issues at longer ranges.
 
A lot of those SWFA SS scopes dont have a flat bottom. If its the Arisaka kit im thinking of.

EDIT: The side focus models do.
 
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Ok, I’ve got the scope temporarily installed on the rifle using the included SWFA rings just to get a feel for it. It sits a little high, If I were to replace the rings I would go lower. While I like the scope, the rings seem like a Made in China after thought. They’d probably work, but they don’t inspire me with confidence.

So do I drop $130 on some Seekins or just roll with these? Maybe something in between?
 
frakncylons said:
Ok, I’ve got the scope temporarily installed on the rifle using the included SWFA rings just to get a feel for it. It sits a little high, If I were to replace the rings I would go lower. While I like the scope, the rings seem like a Made in China after thought. They’d probably work, but they don’t inspire me with confidence.

So do I drop $130 on some Seekins or just roll with these? Maybe something in between?
Click to expand...
Quality rings can be used on scopes as you upgrade. They’re a buy once cry once purchase.
 
Perhaps this would be best served by another thread, but I'll go with it and see what happens...

I'm a bit conflicted on ammo. I'm already set up on a 550 to load pistol ammo, and I'd eventually like to load 223. Do I just rip the band-aid off and get everything I need to load 223 now?

I do have a bunch of brass but it's a mix of commercial and lake city that I'm guessing is crimped. Oh and primers, jeez where to find primers at the moment, maybe I could work a trade for some SPP.

The other option would be to buy loaded ammo and it looks like the good stuff is well up over $1/round.

I could buy a little just to get me onto the range while I get set up and start developing a load.

This is getting expensive...
 
frakncylons said:
Perhaps this would be best served by another thread, but I'll go with it and see what happens...

I'm a bit conflicted on ammo. I'm already set up on a 550 to load pistol ammo, and I'd eventually like to load 223. Do I just rip the band-aid off and get everything I need to load 223 now?

I do have a bunch of brass but it's a mix of commercial and lake city that I'm guessing is crimped. Oh and primers, jeez where to find primers at the moment, maybe I could work a trade for some SPP.

The other option would be to buy loaded ammo and it looks like the good stuff is well up over $1/round.

I could buy a little just to get me onto the range while I get set up and start developing a load.

This is getting expensive...
Click to expand...

You can load quality ammo on a progressive. F class John has several videos on it. As for brass you want to stick with one head stamp. If not you’ll be chasing your tail. Some have subtle differences in case capacity leading to different pressure curves with same charge of powder.


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FYI the very front rail screw on ctrs is an attachment for a barrel heat shield, not a rail screw. It will look like it’s not all the way in. There is no where for it to go, so if you “tighten” it to “fix” it, it’s just gonna pull the front of your rail up off the action :)

Tikka manual doesn’t mention it at all.

Fwiw the rails are epoxied on, don’t try to remove the factory rail without heating it, you’ll just strip the screws. I ended up sending mine to the smith after stripping them. I put an area 419 rail on it and it was nice but didn’t really need it for my use (out to 600)

Swfa 10x42 are great scopes and perfect to have around like this. I have them on multiple rifles.
 
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frakncylons said:
This is getting expensive...
Click to expand...


rofl_emoticon_medium.gif
 
Pretty much sorted out, just need to level scope and get sighted in. I went ahead and got Seekins rings as the premium was worth it not to have to fuss over losing zero or general dicking around with non sense.

The generous SWFA adjustment and my quick math tells me I’ll be fine at 700. Once I get zeroed, I’ll have a better idea of how far I can stretch on this setup.

3A7368B6-E783-44AE-8F7E-590F6BA16681.png
 
Zbizzle911 said:
Here’s a cheap upgrade for the trigger. This really will help you get the weight down on the trigger pull.


www.yodaveproducts.com

Tikka T3, T3X and T1X spring

cz 452 trigger kits and spring
www.yodaveproducts.com


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Click to expand...
I have a Yo Dave! On my shelf. Never got round to installing because the factory is so nice.
 
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