rumblings of gun control are affoot

Ikarus1

Ikarus1

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Well......the usual suspects (junior senator from CT...etc) are involved, along with some new faces with (R) besides their name -

John Cornyn, Tim Scott just to name 2 from the supposedly 'free states'. Of course in the name of 'strengthening background checks'. Only thing that wasn't included is "do it for the children".

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/360654-senators-introduce-bipartisan-gun-background-check-bill

Here is the bill, S.2135 (since none of the media can report the bill number) and it's corresponding Popvox page:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/2135/text
Of Course the actual text isn't available yet.

https://www.popvox.com/us/federal/bills/115/s2135

Don't trust these snakes in the Senate. We've had enough Junior Senators causing trouble the last 10 years!

Of course, Mr Murphy of CT also introduced this gem of a bill:
https://www.popvox.com/us/federal/bills/115/s2145
'A bill to prohibit the United States Government from barring refugees from entering the United States based on their country of origin.'
 
What I have read of teh bill it does nothing to gun owners or our ability to purchase. Of course I will wait to read it but if reports are correct it only impacts states and angencies and how they report to the FBI for NICS checks. Such as penalties if they do not report information or update it.

From NBC

According to a description of the bill, first obtained by NBC News, the “Fix NICS Act” offers a handful of solutions to help get all the necessary records uploaded, including asking federal agencies and states to produce plans to upload and verify the criminal and mental health records necessary to bar unfit purchasers from buying a weapon.

Because the federal government can't force states to comply with uploading requirements, it creates incentives like grants for states to do so. It also adds accountability measures like withholding political appointees bonuses for agencies that fail to do so. The bill also directs federal funds to ensure that domestic violence crimes are added to the background-check system.

This is the third attempt to fix the background-check reporting system since 1995. The NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 provided millions to encourage the states to improve their data sharing. That was preceded by The National Criminal History Improvement Program, the first effort to give the states an incentive to report more records.

“For years agencies and states haven’t complied with the law, failing to upload these critical records without consequence,” Cornyn said in a statement announcing the effort Thursday. “Just one record that’s not properly reported can lead to tragedy, as the country saw last week in Sutherland Springs, Texas. This bill aims to help fix what’s become a nationwide, systemic problem so we can better prevent criminals and domestic abusers from obtaining firearms.”

“This deal will strengthen the background check system and save lives. Our bill marks an important milestone that shows real compromise can be made on the issue of guns," Murphy added.
 
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Yeah, but it's a slippery slope. o_O
 
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yeah because there are never any modifications to a bill that would infringe upon an individual's RKBA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act
"Both Republicans and Democrats in California supported increased gun control. Governor Ronald Reagan was present when the protesters arrived and later commented that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons" and that guns were a "ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will." In a later press conference, Reagan added that the Mulford Act "would work no hardship on the honest citizen.""


http://theweek.com/articles/582926/how-ronald-reagan-learned-love-gun-control
 
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georgel said:
Yeah, but it's a slippery slope. o_O
Click to expand...

I do not see the slippery slope? The NICS system would work if it was up to date and accurate. Prohibited people need to be on the list and people that are no longer prohibited need to be removed. How does trying to insure that change anything for us? If there is nothing added and all it truely does what was said above I have no problem with it. Several of the recent killings would have been prevented if the data was correct, even our own military is not updating it correctly.

I guess being a FFL changes my prospective on it since I rely on that data to insure I am not selling a gun to a prohibited person.
 
TSConver said:
I do not see the slippery slope? The NICS system would work if it was up to date and accurate. Prohibited people need to be on the list and people that are no longer prohibited need to be removed. How does trying to insure that change anything for us? If there is nothing added and all it truely does what was said above I have no problem with it. Several of the recent killings would have been prevented if the data was correct, even our own military is not updating it correctly.

I guess being a FFL changes my prospective on it since I rely on that data to insure I am not selling a gun to a prohibited person.
Click to expand...

"The remedy for evil men is not the abrogation of the rights of law abiding citizens. The remedy for evil men is the gallows." Thomas Jefferson

If you truly believe that failing a NICS check would have stopped a crazy person from doing crazy things.....

Where's that NICS check for renting a truck at home depot, or buying fertilizer and/or gasoline?
 
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The Nobles still believe paper can fix anything.

0203_authoritah1.jpg
 
Interesting that he says four years the states have not complied with reporting regulations yet it was the US Air Force who screwed up most recently
 
Ikarus1 said:
"The remedy for evil men is not the abrogation of the rights of law abiding citizens. The remedy for evil men is the gallows." Thomas Jefferson

If you truly believe that failing a NICS check would have stopped a crazy person from doing crazy things.....

Where's that NICS check for renting a truck at home depot, or buying fertilizer and/or gasoline?
Click to expand...

You are doing exactly what the media does, spinning my words. Never said you could prevent crazy people from doing crazy things. I said that if NICS had been correct it would have prevented them from getting guns. Never said they would not have still done something with some other weapon.

Everyone talks about enforcing the laws we have, having a correct NICS is one way of doing that. Face it, the 4473 will never go away in the current US system, only a revolution will remnove it. So why not make it work right and prevent people that should not have guns from getting guns. If you think it will you really need a reality check.
 
TSConver said:
You are doing exactly what the media does, spinning my words. Never said you could prevent crazy people from doing crazy things. I said that if NICS had been correct it would have prevented them from getting guns. Never said they would not have still done something with some other weapon.
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No you said, "Several of the recent killings would have been prevented if the data was correct, even our own military is not updating it correctly." This is the exact illogic that politicians and Libruls use to pander their propaganda. It is furthering the belief that laws can prevent. The fact is that there should not be an NICS system, which turns a right into a government run permission and privilege scheme. It is wrong. There should not be a "prohibited" person. This is wrong too and it is a perversion of the spirit on which this nation was supposedly founded.

Everyone talks about enforcing the laws we have, having a correct NICS is one way of doing that. Face it, the 4473 will never go away in the current US system, only a revolution will remnove it. So why not make it work right and prevent people that should not have guns from getting guns. If you think it will you really need a reality check.
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I don't talk about having a corrected system. I talk about doing away with it. Unfortunately, you're likely correct in that it will take a revolution to accomplish that, but if that's the case so be it. I'm willing to hang every last politician on the state house steps if that's what it takes to restore freedom and liberty in this country. I am growing really tired of this perpetual "do as we command or we'll use force and violence against you." from "government" at all levels. That's what street thugs do.

By being an FFL that abides by the systems' rules, you're contributing to the problem. Again it's coerced under the threat of violence against you. Therefore I can't blame you for going along with it, but I would like to see people stand up and tell them to reject their damned forms and background checks and shove it where the sun don't shine.
 
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noway2 said:
No you said, "Several of the recent killings would have been prevented if the data was correct, even our own military is not updating it correctly." This is the exact illogic that politicians and Libruls use to pander their propaganda. It is furthering the belief that laws can prevent. The fact is that there should not be an NICS system, which turns a right into a government run permission and privilege scheme. It is wrong. There should not be a "prohibited" person. This is wrong too and it is a perversion of the spirit on which this nation was supposedly founded.

I don't talk about having a corrected system. I talk about doing away with it. Unfortunately, you're likely correct in that it will take a revolution to accomplish that, but if that's the case so be it. I'm willing to hang every last politician on the state house steps if that's what it takes to restore freedom and liberty in this country. I am growing really tired of this perpetual "do as we command or we'll use force and violence against you." from "government" at all levels. That's what street thugs do.

By being an FFL that abides by the systems' rules, you're contributing to the problem. Again it's coerced under the threat of violence against you. Therefore I can't blame you for going along with it, but I would like to see people stand up and tell them to reject their damned forms and background checks and shove it where the sun don't shine.
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It would be nice if we did not need NICS. But unfortuantely our jails are full of white collar criminals and the streets are running full of thugs out on parole or simply released as they are trying to turn their life around. Also our mental health system is a joke there are very few insititutions and all the crazies are on the street after they are cured by the most recent miracle drug.

Unless these two things change where we actually lock up violent offenders for life, reform is highly unlikely and rarely happens at least in our current system and we put the psycopaths and schizos in institutions for life like they did 40 years ago we need something.

If I stood up to them I would be in jail. Period no argument. If you did not have FFLs there would be no way to get firearms inthe US other than black market. Like I said this system will not go away under our current regime. It will take a revolution for that. Unfortunately very few are ready and willing to start a revolution. I know I am not, I have no desire to live inthe cold on the run fighting a civil war. Not saying I what I would do if someone else started one but I am not firing the first shot.
 
TSConver said:
You are doing exactly what the media does, spinning my words. Never said you could prevent crazy people from doing crazy things. I said that if NICS had been correct it would have prevented them from getting guns. Never said they would not have still done something with some other weapon. .
Click to expand...

Actually these are your exact words above

“Several of the recent killings would have been prevented if the data was correct”
 
TSConver said:
If I stood up to them I would be in jail. Period no argument. If you did not have FFLs there would be no way to get firearms inthe US other than black market. Like I said this system will not go away under our current regime. It will take a revolution for that. Unfortunately very few are ready and willing to start a revolution. I know I am not, I have no desire to live inthe cold on the run fighting a civil war. Not saying I what I would do if someone else started one but I am not firing the first shot.
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It's going to take more than just one or two people refusing to comply. It is going to take a solid group of people from multiple segments of the gun culture, for lack of a better term, meaning manufacturers, retailers, customers, etc, who refuse to comply and are both willing to kill and be killed, not "go to jail" which is an acknowledgement of the systems' legitimacy, for that refusal.

If that starts civil war 2.0 then so be it, but it won't be the people who are demanding their freedom that choose to have war.
 
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This is the third or fourth version of a "we really mean it this time" law, the actual provisions of which are essentially meaningless.

The Democrats are anxious to pass any kind of new law they can point to as gun control, even if it accomplishes nothing.

The Republicans are equally anxious to pass any kind of new law that does nothing, but allows them to claim they supported "reasonable" gun control.
 
TSConver said:
I do not see the slippery slope? The NICS system would work if it was up to date and accurate. Prohibited people need to be on the list and people that are no longer prohibited need to be removed. How does trying to insure that change anything for us? If there is nothing added and all it truely does what was said above I have no problem with it. Several of the recent killings would have been prevented if the data was correct, even our own military is not updating it correctly.

I guess being a FFL changes my prospective on it since I rely on that data to insure I am not selling a gun to a prohibited person.
Click to expand...
The federal government establishes a precident in coercing states and municipalites to do their will.

AKA blackmail.
 
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TSConver said:
What I have read of teh bill it does nothing to gun owners or our ability to purchase. Of course I will wait to read it but if reports are correct it only impacts states and angencies and how they report to the FBI for NICS checks. Such as penalties if they do not report information or update it.

From NBC

According to a description of the bill, first obtained by NBC News, the “Fix NICS Act” offers a handful of solutions to help get all the necessary records uploaded, including asking federal agencies and states to produce plans to upload and verify the criminal and mental health records necessary to bar unfit purchasers from buying a weapon.

Because the federal government can't force states to comply with uploading requirements, it creates incentives like grants for states to do so. It also adds accountability measures like withholding political appointees bonuses for agencies that fail to do so. The bill also directs federal funds to ensure that domestic violence crimes are added to the background-check system.

This is the third attempt to fix the background-check reporting system since 1995. The NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 provided millions to encourage the states to improve their data sharing. That was preceded by The National Criminal History Improvement Program, the first effort to give the states an incentive to report more records.

“For years agencies and states haven’t complied with the law, failing to upload these critical records without consequence,” Cornyn said in a statement announcing the effort Thursday. “Just one record that’s not properly reported can lead to tragedy, as the country saw last week in Sutherland Springs, Texas. This bill aims to help fix what’s become a nationwide, systemic problem so we can better prevent criminals and domestic abusers from obtaining firearms.”

“This deal will strengthen the background check system and save lives. Our bill marks an important milestone that shows real compromise can be made on the issue of guns," Murphy added.
Click to expand...


Every law passed is an unconstitutional infringement
 
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