School me on reverse draw crossbows? (How much xbow is enough?)

[surrealone]

Any reverse draw crossbow users here? If so, I'm looking to take the plunge and would LOVE to benefit from your knowledge/experience/expertise.

I did a search in this forum on 'reverse' and came up empty, so ... I thought I'd post to ask.

 

[MacEntyre]

I don' know much about 'em, but... they are narrow, can be lightweight and still deliver 400+ fps. I would like to trade my xbow for this'n:

The Deathstalker draws only 130 pounds, but the long 17.25-inch power stroke imparts a velocity of up to 420 feet per second into a 370-grain arrow, providing a massive amount of kinetic energy in such a small package.

 

[surrealone]

I don' know much about 'em, but... they are narrow, can be lightweight and still deliver 400+ fps. I would like to trade my xbow for this'n:

The Deathstalker draws only 130 pounds, but the long 17.25-inch power stroke imparts a velocity of up to 420 feet per second into a 370-grain arrow, providing a massive amount of kinetic energy in such a small package.

I'm a total xbow newbie and want to get into it to leverage my gun skills in a way that gets me another (early) month of deer hunting before black powder and gun season starts. I was eyeing this two years ago, but RDX's were still (relatively) new and I wanted to wait for that world to settle out a little bit. My thinking was that they were spendy then (~$2k for the top notch RDX kits) and that competition would grow and put downward pressure on prices.

Boy was I wrong! In that time, TenPoint seems to have bought/eaten Horton, and we don't see much in the way of down market RDX's for less than $1k. Meanwhile, the price point for the biggest, baddest RDX's has hit ~4.5k MSRP. (My mind is blown.)

So, I'm left scratching my head wondering where to jump in, what to look for, what's gimmick versus what's so nice that despite being an option, seasoned xbow owners lust after it. Core to this is I'm a buy once, cry once kind of guy ... so my thinking is to avoid making costly mistakes that will have me wishing I'd bought X instead of Y and then having to sell X (usually at a loss) to get Y.

Questions I have:

• Is a silent cocking system (like AccuDraw) worth it in real-world scenarios, or are the ones that make noise (like Ravin's) still quiet enough to not matter?
• Are systems that enable decocking (like AccuSlide) worth it? (What do people who don't have these do to avoid having to fire a bolt for decocking purposes?)
• Are the scopes some RDX's come with crappy (like most scopes that are packaged with rifles), or are they worthwhile?
• What's with the dial on some xbow scopes that is used to set FPS?
• Internal parts are places gun makers tend to skimp on. RDX's don't have much of this, but they do have strings, stops, etc. Are any of these typically poor qualify to save cost and, thus, items I should look to replace right out of the gate?
• What should I look for in RDX arms, as I've read of breakages with some and would like to avoid this!

I'm sure I have more newbie questions, but these are the ones I've wrestled with as of late. Any guidance is appreciated!

 

[RR]

Yeah I'd love to have an RDX but I'm not spending that kind of money on one.

I have two crossbows. An older Parker Buckbuster 150. And a Killer Instinct 175. Both of them have put meat in the freezer and done all I've asked of them. The KI in particular is a better balanced package than the older Parker with a narrower profile while still being a traditional and relatively inexpensive model.

 

[surrealone]

Yeah I'd love to have an RDX but I'm not spending that kind of money on one.

I have two crossbows. An older Parker Buckbuster 150. And a Killer Instinct 175. Both of them have put meat in the freezer and done all I've asked of them. The KI in particular is a better balanced package than the older Parker with a narrower profile while still being a traditional and relatively inexpensive model.

Speaking of balance -- that raises another question: what do xbow hunters in tree stands use to support/stabilize their xbows while shooting?

On the ground, shooting sticks will work as well for an xbow as a gun, but in a tree stand, I'm scratching my head on that. In a tree for a gun, I use a 3" nylon webbing strap that is sewn with multiple loops through which I can place the forearm of the firearm. That strap is then attached to the tree. This setup effectively acts as a sling that lets me choose how much tension and range of motion I get out of it (based on which loop I put the forearm through). Obviously I can't do that sort of thing with something like a crossbow, as the loop of material (which would have to be velcro'd or snapped into place) would interfere with the bolt and string. that has moving strings and a bolt.

Do people just shoot crossbows unsupported and/or sans sling tension from tree stands?

 

[tobyscreams]

Yeah I shoot unsupported. Reverse draw helps narrow the axle to axle length and provides one key element. The power stroke is longer. If drawn for the same length arrow when the string stops during firing for a “conventional “ crossbow it is further back than the reverse draw. In other words it pushes the arrow for a longer duration. This equates a faster bow if it had the same dimensions and draw weight, but most don’t and therefore are the same speed(ish) but more compact. Hope that helps.

 

[smooth]

I started looking at crossbows last year and wound up with a Wicked Ridge RDX 400 this spring. Overall, it meets my expectations and performs well. Being small and compact helps when moving about both in a blind or a stand. My young son is better able to use it vs. other models with the limbs out front that are more front heavy. The speed and accuracy are nuts. I shoot mine out to 40 yards to practice and will likely not shot it much beyond 30 hunting.
I have the Accudraw crank on mine. Like it a lot but it us NOT silent. I recommend getting familiar with it before heading out to the woods but you’ll probably get that just sighting it in. Has a dry fire safety to keep from accidentally firing with no bolt.
I use the Wicked Ridge aftermarket aluminum arrows. They seem to be better and more consistent than the practice arrows that came with the bow. There’s also a carbon version that should be even more accurate for twice the price.
I use a shooting stick in the blind and either the rail or unsupported while in a tree stand. I have a sling on it but it doesn’t help stabilize a shot.
The scope is fine fir this bow and let’s in plenty of light for a clear picture. The reticle does seem a bit “thick” but I’ve had no problems while using it. I think all these crossbows have a bit of an issue with the scope mount. Seems like they easily lose zero if bumped, I check mine frequently as a friend with an older model seems plagued with this problem.
Only other gripe, the safety switch is too loud unless I’m extremely slow and careful with it.
I really love it and would buy it again. If money was not an issue, I would have probably gone for a Ravin model.

 

[Puddlejockey]

Hey! I had to go X bow from a vertical bow due to an injury, back before they were cool... so here's my .02 sense. ( I also, FWIW, just plopped down bug dinero for a Tenpoint Siege.. probably my favorite piece of killing equipment hands down).

• Is a silent cocking system (like AccuDraw) worth it in real-world scenarios, or are the ones that make noise (like Ravin's) still quiet enough to not matter? Absolutely yes and YES! IF you hunt in ladder stands. Personally, I wasn't a fan of the Ravin " click", which is one of the many reasons I went Tenpoint. The rotary draw system has a clutch, so it won't spin on you- but doesn't click like the Ravin. I let my brother use it a few weeks ago in another State. He was in a Muddy 2 man blind ( that matters for room) and shot a mature doe from about 30 yards out... managed to recock and drop an 8 PT 20 minutes later as he was about to get down.
• 
  
• Are systems that enable decocking (like AccuSlide) worth it? (What do people who don't have these do to avoid having to fire a bolt for decocking purposes?) I used to carry a " decocking bolt" in my case ; which allows you to fire into the ground. One more reason why I love the Tenpoint/ Wicked Ridge decocking system.
• Are the scopes some RDX's come with crappy (like most scopes that are packaged with rifles), or are they worthwhile?
• The scope that came on my Trenpoint was pretty decent, actually! On my previous Xbows ( A Barnette and another one from Academy that was $400.00 for a whole starter kit- the name escapes me) were POS's
• What's with the dial on some xbow scopes that is used to set FPS?
• You set that dial ONCE- to match your IBO speed. essentially , in theory, it brings the different lines together or further apart to match the ballistic curve of a given arrow ( bolt ) weight. I've had mixed success.
• Internal parts are places gun makers tend to skimp on. RDX's don't have much of this, but they do have strings, stops, etc. Are any of these typically poor qualify to save cost and, thus, items I should look to replace right out of the gate? I got nuithin'
• What should I look for in RDX arms, as I've read of breakages with some and would like to avoid this! Absolutely you get what you pay for- but my own theory is that every manufacturer now is scrambling for parts, and using bolts, nuts, etc from unknown suppliers as they can get them.

My Grandfather told me once that when it comes to Women and Booze, get the cheapest you can handle.... but when it comes to hunting or fishing gear, get the best you can afford.

One thing you didn't mention was the trigger, and carry comfort. To me that was a HUGE factor in both choosing to go with a smaller reverse limb bow, and the one that I went with. The Ravin's just felt awkward to me personally. As an experienced rifle shooter, I'm kind of " princess in a pea" when it comes to triggers, and the Tenpoint broke very, very cleanly after taking up the slack ( they call it a 2 stage.. but stage 1 is zero resistance.) .

From a speed standpoint, I think any of them should only be used to take big game like whitetails out to about 50 yards max ; and even then only in open fields since the curve is so great.. and the difference between 405 and 435 at that range makes very little POI change when shooting the same weight arrow ( bolt.) . FYI- the muzzy HDX broadheads are the most devastating thing I've ever seen. 7 deer down with them total from various hunters ( none of whom were me this season- arghh!) .. and all were recovered within 35 yards with good shot placement.

 

[surrealone]

I started looking at crossbows last year and wound up with a Wicked Ridge RDX 400 this spring. Overall, it meets my expectations and performs well. Being small and compact helps when moving about both in a blind or a stand. My young son is better able to use it vs. other models with the limbs out front that are more front heavy. The speed and accuracy are nuts. I shoot mine out to 40 yards to practice and will likely not shot it much beyond 30 hunting.
I have the Accudraw crank on mine. Like it a lot but it us NOT silent. I recommend getting familiar with it before heading out to the woods but you’ll probably get that just sighting it in. Has a dry fire safety to keep from accidentally firing with no bolt.
I use the Wicked Ridge aftermarket aluminum arrows. They seem to be better and more consistent than the practice arrows that came with the bow. There’s also a carbon version that should be even more accurate for twice the price.
I use a shooting stick in the blind and either the rail or unsupported while in a tree stand. I have a sling on it but it doesn’t help stabilize a shot.
The scope is fine fir this bow and let’s in plenty of light for a clear picture. The reticle does seem a bit “thick” but I’ve had no problems while using it. I think all these crossbows have a bit of an issue with the scope mount. Seems like they easily lose zero if bumped, I check mine frequently as a friend with an older model seems plagued with this problem.
Only other gripe, the safety switch is too loud unless I’m extremely slow and careful with it.
I really love it and would buy it again. If money was not an issue, I would have probably gone for a Ravin model.

Very useful info on the safety switch, as it helps inform my selection. Thank you!

Hey! I had to go X bow from a vertical bow due to an injury, back before they were cool... so here's my .02 sense. ( I also, FWIW, just plopped down bug dinero for a Tenpoint Siege.. probably my favorite piece of killing equipment hands down).

• Is a silent cocking system (like AccuDraw) worth it in real-world scenarios, or are the ones that make noise (like Ravin's) still quiet enough to not matter? Absolutely yes and YES! IF you hunt in ladder stands. Personally, I wasn't a fan of the Ravin " click", which is one of the many reasons I went Tenpoint. The rotary draw system has a clutch, so it won't spin on you- but doesn't click like the Ravin. I let my brother use it a few weeks ago in another State. He was in a Muddy 2 man blind ( that matters for room) and shot a mature doe from about 30 yards out... managed to recock and drop an 8 PT 20 minutes later as he was about to get down.
• 
  
• Are systems that enable decocking (like AccuSlide) worth it? (What do people who don't have these do to avoid having to fire a bolt for decocking purposes?) I used to carry a " decocking bolt" in my case ; which allows you to fire into the ground. One more reason why I love the Tenpoint/ Wicked Ridge decocking system.
• Are the scopes some RDX's come with crappy (like most scopes that are packaged with rifles), or are they worthwhile?
• The scope that came on my Trenpoint was pretty decent, actually! On my previous Xbows ( A Barnette and another one from Academy that was $400.00 for a whole starter kit- the name escapes me) were POS's
• What's with the dial on some xbow scopes that is used to set FPS?
• You set that dial ONCE- to match your IBO speed. essentially , in theory, it brings the different lines together or further apart to match the ballistic curve of a given arrow ( bolt ) weight. I've had mixed success.
• Internal parts are places gun makers tend to skimp on. RDX's don't have much of this, but they do have strings, stops, etc. Are any of these typically poor qualify to save cost and, thus, items I should look to replace right out of the gate? I got nuithin'
• What should I look for in RDX arms, as I've read of breakages with some and would like to avoid this! Absolutely you get what you pay for- but my own theory is that every manufacturer now is scrambling for parts, and using bolts, nuts, etc from unknown suppliers as they can get them.

My Grandfather told me once that when it comes to Women and Booze, get the cheapest you can handle.... but when it comes to hunting or fishing gear, get the best you can afford.

One thing you didn't mention was the trigger, and carry comfort. To me that was a HUGE factor in both choosing to go with a smaller reverse limb bow, and the one that I went with. The Ravin's just felt awkward to me personally. As an experienced rifle shooter, I'm kind of " princess in a pea" when it comes to triggers, and the Tenpoint broke very, very cleanly after taking up the slack ( they call it a 2 stage.. but stage 1 is zero resistance.) .

From a speed standpoint, I think any of them should only be used to take big game like whitetails out to about 50 yards max ; and even then only in open fields since the curve is so great.. and the difference between 405 and 435 at that range makes very little POI change when shooting the same weight arrow ( bolt.) . FYI- the muzzy HDX broadheads are the most devastating thing I've ever seen. 7 deer down with them total from various hunters ( none of whom were me this season- arghh!) .. and all were recovered within 35 yards with good shot placement.

Wow, thank you for the very thorough reply, as it not only informs ... but shapes ... my decision. I'm a 'buy once, cry once' type who adheres to your Grandfather's way of thinking ... and I'm also a trigger snob of sorts in that I demand crisp, clean triggers. With those things in mind, I absolutely intend to skip the process of buying cheap, finding out what I don't like, then buying something better, then lathering/rinsing/repeating ... as I know it'll end up costing me more than if I just buy into a premium platform out of the gate.

I've been wrestling with TenPoint vs. Ravin ... while leaning in the TenPoint direction due to the available features Ravin has lacked. Your reply has convinced me that things I thought might be valuable in TenPoints ... absolutely will be. It's nice to hear that from someone who IS a crossbow user instead of relying on my own speculation.


Now I suppose it's down to which TenPoint ... and the best time to buy. Do prices on previous year models tend to drop during or after the ATA Show in early January?

 

[#1gohunt]

Speaking of balance -- that raises another question: what do xbow hunters in tree stands use to support/stabilize their xbows while shooting?

On the ground, shooting sticks will work as well for an xbow as a gun, but in a tree stand, I'm scratching my head on that. In a tree for a gun, I use a 3" nylon webbing strap that is sewn with multiple loops through which I can place the forearm of the firearm. That strap is then attached to the tree. This setup effectively acts as a sling that lets me choose how much tension and range of motion I get out of it (based on which loop I put the forearm through). Obviously I can't do that sort of thing with something like a crossbow, as the loop of material (which would have to be velcro'd or snapped into place) would interfere with the bolt and string. that has moving strings and a bolt.

Do people just shoot crossbows unsupported and/or sans sling tension from tree stands?

I suggest you try to reload you cross bow while sitting in a tree stand. You don't have to be 20' up either. Just 2 to 3 feet.
Depending on type of Tree stand you will find it almost impossible to do with out making some movement and LOUD noise. A second chance attempt almost never happens. I use a Compound bow most of the time but I have a cross bow and when I use it I rest it on the rail. Don't let them get to close or you won't be able to get enough downward angle.

 

[papa_smurf]

No experience with the reverse draw xbows, but a few years of experience with standard compound xbows. My experience is that the reverse draw is more marketing than anything functional. Yes, it is absolutely a narrower and more compact design. I don't think that it's worth it for the price tag though - unless you hunt in a real tight box stand or they have come down a lot. $500 will buy you a lot of xbow in the 400 fps range. The deer won't know if it was a reverse draw or not.

 

[surrealone]

@#1gohunt If I'm not sure of my shot, I don't squeeze the trigger. Thankfully that bit of discipline should transfer nicely from rifle/blackpowder hunting to xbow hunting.