Are those two considered the entry level and upper/midrange or the upper/midrange and top of the line?
Security Cameras
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Are those two considered the entry level and upper/midrange or the upper/midrange and top of the line?
I consider the 2mp kit to be more entry level due to the camera quality, the 4mp kit is more of a mid range kit.
The NVRs are probably exactly the same unit which is very good for the price, in this case the cameras make the difference in my “ranking”
My labels in this case are based more towards affordability, and what an average person would want to spend on a good quality POE camera system, to the guys selling $20-$30k camera systems might call what I listed as garbage, but to people on a super tight budget they might be stupid expensive.
I ranked them based on a $750-$1500 budget, and what the intended use will be, there are thousands of products on the market and I’ve found these two kits to be extremely good and very affordable to the average buyer, if the budget was higher or lower I could steer someone to other stuff, but in my opinion the video quality drops way off if you go much below these and in order to get a noticeably better image quality you would have to spend $1k-$2k more and you start running into diminishing returns until you start buying speciality gear for specific applications (pan, tilt, zoom, color night vision, thermal cameras) etc, then the technology of the recorders is a whole other can of worms.
Thanks Tarowah....
But I will say, the "better" option says 2TB hard drive included, but when you look at the specs it shows 1TB . Could be a typo, but just wanted to point this out to potential buyers.
DS
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
I saw that as well, I “think” it’s a typo but even if it isn’t and it came with a 1TB Drive you can easily pop a 4TB NAS or CCTV drive into the NVR for less than $100, a lot of companies put smaller higher end drives into units because it’s cheaper on the front end, again without muddying up the water too much, the unit with the 2mp cameras has a slower/cheaper 2TB drive because the read/write bandwidth ability of the drive is fine, but when you step up to the 4TB cameras the same drive might not be able to handle the additional 2mp of data on all 8 channels so they have to get a faster but smaller drive to compensate and a 2TB drive that can handle the load might be 3 times as much, so they opt for the smaller platter size to cut costs.
It is honestly really tough for a semi tech savi DYI person to keep track of all of the minute “gotchas” that companies use to attract buyers, the best advice I can give anyone looking to research and go through installing and setting up cameras on your own is to pour through the tech site and user reviews, “normally” you’ll be able to weed out the a-holes ragging on a product to make “their” preferred brand look better by comparing products on several review sites, again “normally” if different reviewers point out the same deficiencies or manufacturer shortcuts then it’s probably legit, the shills will point out stupid crap that sounds serious that “brand X” does better or doesn’t do, if the “issues” don’t come up on more than one review, chances are it’s not something that should make or break your decision to go with a product if it meets all of your other requirements.
I pass your place all the time. Get my bike tires changed at powel motorsports and HARBOR FREIGHT! Omg, you're walkin distance to HARBOR FREIGHT!
Good catch. It does say 2TB elsewhere in the descriptions, but probably worth an email to them just to make sure!
@Tarowah what would you consider to be the next step up from that system?
School me a bit;
-I was hoping to get for @ $500, the wife's not on board.
-White dome cameras will look better on white fascia boards. Do bullets have better clarity?
-I ran CAT6 wiring thinking PoE was the way to go, and I see these have HDMI and VGA Video Outputs.
-How much of a difference is there between 1080 and 2MP? I don't need the best, just clear recognition to 15-20'
Thanks!
I’ll cover the bulk of this after work but the HDMI & VGA connections are how you connect your monitor or TV to the unit, the POE is how the cameras interface with the NVR.
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I’ll look this evening when I get back to my computer, I have limited resources on my phone to cross check the features on my phone.
Jake
Happy to be here
First 1080p is the same as 2 Megapixels. 1080p has a resolution of 1920x1080. I have often wondered why people call 4K that instead of 4M. So 1080p has half the pixels of 4K, but that is only 1.4x difference in linear resolution.
I went through the same decision process myself a year ago. A great resource is https://ipcamtalk.com/. Look at the IP camera and NVR forums. That is where I got my education. The consensus there was that the leading contenders were Dahua and HKVision. If you are interested in night vision as I was, the Dahua Starlight series is the way to go. They are amazing. Now they are 2Mp not 4Mp to get larger, more sensitive pixels for enhanced night vision. Image quality -- especially night vision quality -- depends on more than resolution. You have a choice of three (at the time) focal lengths. They also have a couple with zoom. I bought four fixed focal length and one zoom.
One caution about dome cameras: the dome can darken over time when exposed to UV.
I chose to get an Dahua NVR without a built-in switch. That allows me to position (and re-position) the NVR and its monitor anywhere in the house without affecting the wiring to the cameras. I got this POE switch: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQHD54L/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1. It has plenty of power for a good number of cameras, all without having a fan, which can be noisy.
Dahua does not market directly to consumers in this country; they market to security companies. This next part will sound sketchy, but it works and is the best deal on Dahua. Everyone on IPCamTalk says to buy from Empire Express, which is a store on Alibaba. It gets sketchier: they say don't buy through Alibaba, but contact Andy of Empire Express directly by email, and he will give you a better price for being on the forum. The warranty is only through him, not the factory. That is the route I took, I got great prices, and delivery took about 8 days from China.
Regardless of camera brand, I highly recommend this crimping tool and matching connectors: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00939KFOU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Using conventional RJ-45 connectors is a skill that takes time to develop. Using the following scissors to trim the wires will save you a lot of grief: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PYZI8Y/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1.
One word of caution: rolling your own system like this takes a little more setup and self-education that getting a pre-configured system with 8 cameras. However, there are lots of resources and YouTube videos to help. The IPCamTalk forum is very helpful with your questions as well.
Here was my initial order with Andy:
- 1 each Dahua 16CH NVR5216-4KS2. I am looking for the version without an internal switch. I plan on using an external switch. I think this is the non-internal-switch version. Please confirm that I am asking about the correct Dahua NVR that will support up to 16 cameras when connected to an external POE switch. -----Yes, this model can support 16CH, not be a big problem.
- 1 each Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)
- 2 each Dahua Starlight Fixed Lens Turret (IPC-HDW4231EM-AS) , 2.8 mm lens
- 2 each Dahua Starlight Fixed Lens Turret (IPC-HDW4231EM-AS) , 3.6 mm lens N
- 5 each wall mount boxes for the above cameras. PFB203W for the HDW5231R-Z, PFB204W for the HDW4231EM-AS.
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This is a pretty good breakdown on some of the video system questions a lot of folks have, he explains things that I understand from working with the technology but can’t articulate it very well.
https://www.unifore.net/ip-video-su...-1mp-1-3mp-2mp-3mp-5mp-4k-uhd-resolution.html
Edit: Jake posted while I was typing this, he is spot on with his post.
https://www.unifore.net/ip-video-su...-1mp-1-3mp-2mp-3mp-5mp-4k-uhd-resolution.html
Edit: Jake posted while I was typing this, he is spot on with his post.
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I was just speaking to a customer about his camera system thought I would add something I think is a cool option you can use with a POE cctv system and a little networking mojo.
Say you have a detached garage/workshop with power 400 yards away from your home and you want to put cameras in the building but don’t want to put in a separate camera system, well it’s too far to bury a cable and you don’t have internet out there to remotely view the cameras so you think your SOL.
Well you can get a wireless bridge kit under $200, a POE switch for multiple cameras or a POE injector for a single camera, connect the camera to the wireless bridge, configure everything and then add cameras up to a mile away (up to several miles but it’s expensive) and connect the off site cameras to your NVR at the house.
You can do some really cool things with POE cameras.
Say you have a detached garage/workshop with power 400 yards away from your home and you want to put cameras in the building but don’t want to put in a separate camera system, well it’s too far to bury a cable and you don’t have internet out there to remotely view the cameras so you think your SOL.
Well you can get a wireless bridge kit under $200, a POE switch for multiple cameras or a POE injector for a single camera, connect the camera to the wireless bridge, configure everything and then add cameras up to a mile away (up to several miles but it’s expensive) and connect the off site cameras to your NVR at the house.
You can do some really cool things with POE cameras.
Jake
Happy to be here
Let me add a few more things I picked up along the way to work with my Dahua system.
SmartPSS is a nice desktop app for remote monitoring your system, both live and recordings. You can also use it to download a segment of any recorded channel as an MP4 file.
gDMSS is a versatile smartphone app that gives you similar access. Not sure if you can download recordings or just watch them.
TinyCam Pro is an live monitoring app that runs on both smart phones AND Amazon Firesticks. Watch for sales and you can get Firesticks for $25. I have an old digital monitor to which I added an HDMI adapter to act as a virtual peephole for the front door and driveway. I have another Firestick on a spare HDMI port on my main TV so I can watch for arriving guests.
Here is a fantastic resource by giomania on the ipcamtalk forum I have frequently mentioned in this thread: IPCamTalk Cliff Notes 2018-01.docx.
Here is the actual thread where he posted it, and you can see the discussion continues.: https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/dahua-starlight-varifocal-turret-ipc-hdw5231r-z.14683/page-154#post-206099
SmartPSS is a nice desktop app for remote monitoring your system, both live and recordings. You can also use it to download a segment of any recorded channel as an MP4 file.
gDMSS is a versatile smartphone app that gives you similar access. Not sure if you can download recordings or just watch them.
TinyCam Pro is an live monitoring app that runs on both smart phones AND Amazon Firesticks. Watch for sales and you can get Firesticks for $25. I have an old digital monitor to which I added an HDMI adapter to act as a virtual peephole for the front door and driveway. I have another Firestick on a spare HDMI port on my main TV so I can watch for arriving guests.
Here is a fantastic resource by giomania on the ipcamtalk forum I have frequently mentioned in this thread: IPCamTalk Cliff Notes 2018-01.docx.
Here is the actual thread where he posted it, and you can see the discussion continues.: https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/dahua-starlight-varifocal-turret-ipc-hdw5231r-z.14683/page-154#post-206099
White cameras will blend in with lighter colors, you can find cameras in 4 primary colors which are usually White, Black, Gray and silver, you can paint the bodies any color you want but just like anything else you have to use to correct type of paint for the material the cameras are made out of and you have to make sure the prep work is on point without damaging seals or lenses.
Generally speaking bullet or dome cameras are simply the “shell”, years ago bullet cameras were used when you needed a camera with a smaller footprint and a dome wouldn’t fit, these days you can get the exact same camera in bullet or dome in various sizes, some people like the looks of one over.
As I mentioned above the video output on the recorder is different than the camera inputs, with POE cameras the inputs will be RJ45 connections, the outputs for the video out can be a wide range of connections, some will be digital like HDMI and Display port and other will be analog such as VGA, RCA and BNC, of course you’ll lose some output quality with analog outputs but it’s not a big deal especially if you have an old computer monitor laying around, you can always connect it to a free HDMI port on your TV which is what I did. I wouldn’t personally spend a ton of money on something just to use the digital outputs, but a cheap $99 32” Wal-Mart TV will look decent enough if you can’t connect the system to your primary big screen TV or have a spare computer monitor laying around.
There are many things that can affect the quality of the video you view, record and stream, the resolution of the cameras is the area that screws a lot of people up, the easiest way I can articulate the benefits of higher resolution cameras is this, if you have cameras ranging from 1 MP (720p) to Ultra 4K (3840x2160) of the same quality, lens size and focal length and you’re viewing them on a 20” monitor, for the most part you will not be able to tell the difference between the image “quality”, what you will notice is the lower resolution cameras will pixelate if you attempt to zoom in on the recorded video, the higher the resolution goes the more pixel density the image file will have and you can capture more detail.
What this means is, say you have a video clip of someone and you can’t quite see their face and want to zoom in on the video clip, you’re not actually zooming, you’re stretching the digital image and the lower the resolution the less you’ll be able stretch the image before the image pixelates and the persons face blows out, so in this case let’s say you have a video of someone, but you just can’t make out their face, with a 1mp camera what you see is what you get, with a 4mp camera you’ll be able to “zoom” (stretch) the image and have enough detail to see what color their eyes are, keep in mind that this is a loose explanation but the principle is accurate.
With the current technology you have the ability to tailor pretty much everything CCTV related, viewing image quality, recorded image quality, hardwired image quality and wireless image quality, all of this is a double edged sword because on one hand you dont have to spend hours calculating network bandwidth, HDD load, storage limitations, POE power distribution etc etc, but it can be overwhelming figuring all this out until you learn what settings do what and how they effect each other.
I’ll look around this weekend and see what’s available on the consumer side and try to point you in the right direction.
You rock and this place is a great community!
It seems 2mp cameras with an 8 channel 5mp base unit will work, and if I wish to upgrade camera(s) down the road it’ll be simple. A few cameras will be able to see further. A few will be pointing into the porch.
I feel like I owe consulting fees at this point.
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