service life of gas rings? (PSA replaced BCG under warranty)

Jayne

Jayne

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My PSA garbage rod (16" mid length) totally blew the gas rings apart around the 2k mark, to the point there was only 1/2 of 1 ring left, the other bits were in the trigger group or just gone. Now at 4396 rounds the rings appear to be worn out again. It fails the various tests to see if your rings are worn, but all 3 are still there and even indexed correctly.

Is ~2k rounds a reasonable life for gas rings? QC issues using unknown rings and replacing them with other unknown rings, or is that just required service on these things? I see lots of data out there.

What service life do you see on your rifles?
 
Well, my 16" carbine gas broke a bolt north of 5k, I put one of those one piece jobs on the new bolt, it has 7k on that set-up, fails the test with flying colors and keeps running.
Have a couple others 14.5" midlength probably around 2k, 18" rifle 4k+ original rings, both passed the test last time I tried.
2k and destroyed seems very wrong.
 
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NCFubar said:
Check the inside of the bolt carrier … it should be chrome lined and smooth. If it’s a little rough from carbon or scoring … or even residual machine marks it could actually be eating your rings.
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I'm going to run it as-is in the class this Saturday, then take it apart for inspection and possible ring replacement. I'll post some pictures of the guts. ('cause you know if I do it now it's going to blow up this weekend).
 
You should get 6-8k rounds before needing replacement
 
Jayne said:
My PSA garbage rod (16" mid length) totally blew the gas rings apart around the 2k mark, to the point there was only 1/2 of 1 ring left, the other bits were in the trigger group or just gone. Now at 4396 rounds the rings appear to be worn out again. It fails the various tests to see if your rings are worn, but all 3 are still there and even indexed correctly.

Is ~2k rounds a reasonable life for gas rings? QC issues using unknown rings and replacing them with other unknown rings, or is that just required service on these things? I see lots of data out there.

What service life do you see on your rifles?
Click to expand...
Very over gassed system on PSA.
 
Jayne said:
I'm going to run it as-is in the class this Saturday, then take it apart for inspection and possible ring replacement. I'll post some pictures of the guts. ('cause you know if I do it now it's going to blow up this weekend).
Click to expand...
What does the chrome lining on the carrier bore look like? If it is rough or pitted, it will eat up gas rings pretty fast.
 
Just keep the carrier clean and well lubed
and occasionally scrape the carbon out of the carrier will prolong the life of the gas rings, my first PSA carbine literally ate the gas rings after about 2-3k through the gun, once I figured out that carbon buildup and lack of lube caused excessive wear on the rings I picked up a “real avid” carbon tool and scraped the inside of the carrier after each 800-1200 rounds, I haven’t experienced any further sudden ring failure, hell my BCM probably has 7-8k on the same rings and still functions fine, the bolt is all loosey goosey, and the bolt falls
Into the carrier with zero resistance when I clean it, but lazyness prevails and I just keep on running it with worn out rings.

With all that said, I keep a couple of “oops kits” and 4-5 sets of spare bolt rings in my range bag, they’re cheap, around $3/$4 bucks for basic ring sets and the one piece rings run $4-$6 and they seem to last a good bit longer than few standard 3 piece ring sets.
 
Jayne said:
The original rings did the same sorta thing, so I'm wondering if the carrier was just defective from the start.
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A properly mfg. carrier bore will have a hardchromed bore. The bore is honed to proper size and then the hardchrome is applied. The bore should be smooth and you should be able to see the crosshatch pattern from the hone. Try to determine the surface quality of the back of the bore where the rings seal. The rings dont seal on the front of the bore. The front of the bore is where the bearing band on the bolt rides.
Scrub the bore with some scotchbrite, a toothbrush, or one of those green colored dishwashing scour pads. The bore should clean up easily.
 
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Kind of hard to get a quality picture...

A properly honed and hardchromed carrier from AO Precision. They are one of Colts primary contract suppliers.

PXL_20220307_145716029.jpg
 
This is the surface that your rings ride/seal on...

Screenshot_20220307-100839.png
 
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Jayne said:
Cleaned it up a bit using cleaner and the scraper tool, and this is the best picture I could get of down in the gas ring area. Looks like some rough spots on the edge.

View attachment 446874
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Kind of hard to see the surface. Try running a toothpick or dental pick around on the bore surface. If it is pitted, you will definately feel it.
You can also hold a small penlight/ flashlight up to the gas exhaust ports on the side of the carrier and get some decent lighting on the bore surface.
How does the area look where the exhaust ports exit the bore? If there is a burr there, it will chew up the gas rings rather quickly.
 
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So here is the deal.

The gas port on PSA is always oversized, so you get excess gas flow.

The gas rings are the seal that allows the OVERFLOW of gas to exit the two holes drilled in the side of your BCG, where the dust cover latch rests when closed.

The warn gas ring one side or the other is because you do not rotate the rings as part of your cleaning cycle., BTW, the condition of your bolt carrier proves you do not clean the gun in the first place. (mine is worse)

You can do a crap ton of this and that to adjust this or that. The reality is, when the bullets start to key hole, go get a better barrel and gas block, and gas tube.

To your question, on that gun, replace the gas rings every time they fail, go buy some extras.

If its your home defense gun, every 1500 rnds.
 
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JBoyette said:
The warn gas ring one side or the other is because you do not rotate the rings as part of your cleaning cycle., BTW, the condition of your bolt carrier proves you do not clean the gun in the first place. (mine is worse)
Click to expand...

True. There is no 'cleaning cycle'. I keep things lubricated and every so often I take the BCG out and wipe it down to get the big chunks off and then put it back. I'm a glock guy that occasionally shoots an AR, I don't have the habit of servicing things beyond lube and worn parts/springs replacement.

JBoyette said:
You can do a crap ton of this and that to adjust this or that. The reality is, when the bullets start to key hole, go get a better barrel and gas block, and gas tube.
Click to expand...

The plan is to shoot this until it's done then toss the upper. I want a different (not keymod, not cast iron, not so big and heavy) handguard anyway so by the time I replace that and the barrel, tube, gas block and the wonky BCG I've basically paid more than for another PSA upper that is configured the way I want.
 
I would like to suggest picking up some “SliP2000 Carbon Killer”, the carbon will literally melt away and you’ll be amazed, yes it IS that good, a small bottle is cheap and you’ll definitely see results.
 
Honestly, I'd pick up a different bcg. If it's shedding rings that fast there's definitely some roughness inside the channel, and that's only going to be exacerbated by an overgassed rifle.

Pick up a solid BCG like a bcm/solgw then save your current bolt as a back up.

You can also get excessive wear on your gas rings from having too heavy of a buffer for your rifle, but I doubt that's the case here.
 
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Bolts in SOCOM get replaced 6-10k or every time I rebarrel a shot out gun (fails barrel erosion gauge) ie new barrel, new bolt assembly. Gas rings are check every 6 mos for serviceability and replaced as needed.
 
Beef15 said:
Well, my 16" carbine gas broke a bolt north of 5k, I put one of those one piece jobs on the new bolt, it has 7k on that set-up, fails the test with flying colors and keeps running.
Have a couple others 14.5" midlength probably around 2k, 18" rifle 4k+ original rings, both passed the test last time I tried.
2k and destroyed seems very wrong.
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Still reading the whole thread but no bolt should break at 5k. Somethings wrong here. I have a BCM bolt with 10k on it that is still running like a champ and only one gas ring change
 
Hashknife said:
A properly mfg. carrier bore will have a hardchromed bore. The bore is honed to proper size and then the hardchrome is applied. The bore should be smooth and you should be able to see the crosshatch pattern from the hone. Try to determine the surface quality of the back of the bore where the rings seal. The rings dont seal on the front of the bore. The front of the bore is where the bearing band on the bolt rides.
Scrub the bore with some scotchbrite, a toothbrush, or one of those green colored dishwashing scour pads. The bore should clean up easily.
Click to expand...

@Hashknife if you see my reply before I deleted it please ignore. Thats what I get for posting in the middle of the night on like 4 different forums at once ;)
 
Icculus said:
Still reading the whole thread but no bolt should break at 5k. Somethings wrong here. I have a BCM bolt with 10k on it that is still running like a champ and only one gas ring change
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Oh yeah, 16" carbine gas, probably a giant port, that at that point you could see had eroded, no name bolt, and a standard carbine buffer, not an H anything.
I suspect the heavier buffer and HP/MPI bolt are responsible for it living longer round two, barrel's in a box now, she was surprisingly still accurate, but I reconfigured to mid-length, lighter, free floated, and ditched the fixed front sight.
 
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PSA has a 100% forever warranty on their stuff so we'll see if the BCG being 'rough' or out of spec might be covered by the warranty. Or if eating rings is just a wear item and wearing faster isn't covered.

Emailed them a few days ago using the RMA form on the web site, nothing back yet either way beyond the automated response.
 
After talking with you, and my overly dirty bolt, I'm looking into if I have a similar problem. AimSurplus wants me to do some more testing, but they said they'll stand behind their product if it is defective.
 
Sasquatch said:
After talking with you, and my overly dirty bolt, I'm looking into if I have a similar problem. AimSurplus wants me to do some more testing, but they said they'll stand behind their product if it is defective.
Click to expand...

How many rounds did your rings survive?
 
Sasquatch said:
Rings are still intact, but even overgassed, won't cycle the bolt reliably. I'm wondering if the carrier is out of round.
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That could be more then a simple fix.

I would do a different BCG(2) and if the other BCG(2) runs well. I will bet it's the Cam-pen track on BCG 1
 
PSA made good on the warranty, gave me a brand new BCG in trade for my old one. They even paid for shipping both ways. Can't beat that for customer service on a... 4 year old rifle? Damn, that can't be right, where has the time gone?
 
Jayne said:
PSA made good on the warranty, gave me a brand new BCG in trade for my old one. They even paid for shipping both ways. Can't beat that for customer service on a... 4 year old rifle? Damn, that can't be right, where has the time gone?
Click to expand...
Nice! Always nice to hear about companies honoring their warranties.
 
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