Sheriff Baker Blocks All Permits in Wake County

Discussion in 'Grass Roots North Carolina' started by Studentofthegun, Mar 28, 2020.

  1. Studentofthegun

    Studentofthegun Super Moderator Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Alert from GRNC:

    Surprise, surprise, surprise. Sheriff Baker is at it again. On Tuesday, March 24th, Baker announced that the Wake County Sheriffs Office will no longer be accepting applications for Pistol Purchase Permits or Concealed Handgun Permits. Under the guise of public safety, he is stripping away the one constitutional right that allows the men and women of North Carolina to keep themselves and their families safe.

    Nothing under the NC Emergency Management Act gives the sheriff additional powers to restrict pistol purchase permits or concealed handgun permits during a declared state of emergency. The statute is quite clear that he has 14 days to issue or deny purchase permits, and nothing allows him to deny permits because he feels his office is too inundated with applications.
    While some sheriffs have said they don't want the public health risk of taking fingerprints for new CHPs, nothing should restrict applications for CHP renewals or PPPs.
    GRNC will be calling for the repeal of the full Pistol Purchase Permit statute, as this lays bare the real reason sheriffs have lobbied to keep this leftover Jim Crow era law on the books. It gives them the power to arbitrarily deny firearms to citizens.

    IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED!

    Please visit this link that has additional information and instructions including contact information for the Wake County Sheriff’s office.

    https://www.grnc.org/defend-your-ri...eriff-baker-blocks-all-permits-in-wake-county
     
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  2. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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    Or maybe they just want to keep people from congregating...you know...kinda like every other entity in the state is doing...


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  3. Studentofthegun

    Studentofthegun Super Moderator Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    That’s an interesting take on the situation. I don’t recall seeing much of a “congregation” at the pistol permit office in Raleigh. But it has been a while.

    Do they have a bunch of lines where people queue up like they do at the license plate office? Is that how it works?

    An easy way to work around it is to have people call and set up an appointment. That way there aren’t any “congregations”.
     
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  4. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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    Last time I was downtown for finger printing...two weeks ago...there were 10 people in the waiting room. At 8:30am, all there for firearm related stuff. And when I went into the actual finger print room, 5 more people.

    CCW and firearm related finger printing are a large percentage of what they do. The whole state is trying to keep people from crowding. It’s kinda there thing these days. Something about a virus going around. Just so happens that stopping finger printing and crowds of people showing up to a single area tends to fit the agenda of “Lets prevent groups of people.” Not necessarily “Lets take der gunz”.

    Now, a month down the road, this all clears up, and they don’t reopen, then we riot.

    As of now, this is as much an issue as Taco Bell not allowing dine in.


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  5. Studentofthegun

    Studentofthegun Super Moderator Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    If the county is unable to do something as simple as have an appointment system then I have serious doubts about them being able to handle paperwork of any kind. Microsoft Outlook is not exactly the most complicated program.

    I realize that blanket restrictions are “kinda their thing” these days. That doesn’t make it right.

    Nor does the complete abandonment of common sense surrounding these types of services. Again, an appointment system is easy to implement.

    Of course, Baker isn’t exactly a stalwart defender of a citizens right to own a firearm. Especially if we take his actions over the Wake County Range into account.

    Now, the number of people going to get permits will likely be smaller anyway because most classes have been suspended. But I hardly think it makes sense to delay someone who has already taken the class from getting their paperwork and fingerprints processed.

    I’ll have to look this up to verify, but I believe in my Concealed Carry class they said that the certificate was only valid for 90 days. It would really stink to have taken your class, then the Sheriff shuts down application processing such that you lose your chance and have to take the class again.

    They are correct about the pistol purchase permit. This is yet another instance in which the law is woefully antiquated and needs to be changed.
     
  6. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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    I think you don’t understand. I was there for 20 minutes...probably had 10-20 people there in that time for various fun related things. Use common sense. That’s 1 person per minute. They will not, nor would I expect any entity to schedule based on 1 minute increments.

    I get it. It’s freaky times. But just because this feels like an attack on you doesn’t mean it is.

    Again, if they don’t reopen shop, we riot.

    And if you want to >force< government employees to be open, then prepare for a mass exodus of people quitting...which will further delay things.

    Again...the sky is falling in everything. But this isn’t a direct attack on the 2nd any more than any other law or infringement.


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  7. Studentofthegun

    Studentofthegun Super Moderator Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    I understand. I’d have to see a bit more data with regard to the number of people in and out of there other than your anecdotal experience. No offense.

    I’m not of the opinion that the sky is falling. And I’m well aware of the hyperbolic nature of some of the statements by GRNC.

    One would not expect the same volume during this time period. Nor would they necessarily have to schedule 1 minute appointments. You schedule in whatever periods are feasible and if the appointment book is full, so be it. That’s still better than a shutdown.

    At any rate I don’t think they would suspend the service any longer than these restriction are in place.
     
  8. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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    No different taking my anecdotal experience over assuming that it’s some overt attack. Every angle of the government from LEO, the Courts, to admin, to whatever are all working to keep people from contacting one another. They have shut down schools, closed restaurants, cancelled courts, tried to forbid gatherings of 10 or more non-related people and so forth. But since this directly involves firearms...which we are all advocates for, it strikes more of a nerve...

    If the .gov were doing nothing except this, then we should be worried. As it stands, it’s shutting down a service in order to prevent the spread of a disease.

    Now, if you want to discuss whether this service is required or should be needed, then that’s an entirely different discussion.


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  9. Studentofthegun

    Studentofthegun Super Moderator Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Yes and no. That was part of their message. Not speaking for GRNC here, but I think that is what makes this thing so problematic.

    If I were reaching out to the Sheriff my message would be about repealing the pistol permit law and switching to an instant check.

    I sure wish that the N.C. Sheriff’s Assoc would get behind that. But we know they won’t because doing so would result in a loss of revenue.

    However if we got away from pistol purchase permits this wouldn’t be quite as much of an issue. You would only have the traffic for CCW permits.

    Wishful thinking perhaps.
     
  10. Combat Diver

    Combat Diver Well-Known Member

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    There are programs that scan your finger prints and puts it on the FBI form. Sheriff should be reminding people that open carry is legal and that you do not need a permit to carry concealed inside your home, property or business. PPPs request should be available online, sheriffs office does NICS and then mails them all within the 14 days time line. Then again repel this Jim Crow PPP and have constitutional carry across the state. Remember this next election cycle.


    CD
     
  11. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Vendor

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    Yes, Remember this next election cycle.
     
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  12. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Didn’t we have a long discussion about how some sheriffs were using the need to schedule an appointment as a way to delay the 14 day clock? It seems that this is pretty much the same thing, or at least the same solution would apply. If we couldn't get traction on it then, it seems unlikely that we can get it now. Has GRNC met with sheriff baker to discuss possible solutions?

    is GRNC going to address how other sheriffs have dealt with the current crisis, or is it mostly a Wake county focused organization?

    FWIW, my fingerprints are on file for other reasons, it always irritates me that they want to refingerprint me for anything.
     
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  13. Sas quatch

    Sas quatch Active Member Supporting Member

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    Again...the sky is falling in everything. But this isn’t a direct attack on the 2nd any more than any other law or infringement.​


    This is the same sheriff who tried to close the public shooting range. This certainly sounds it will prevent people from getting guns, a second amendment right. I don't remember the clause in the constitution where it says the bill of rights is suspended because Governor Cooper declares a 'state of emergency'.
     
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  14. dmarbell

    dmarbell Sensei of Humor Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Let's not lose what this is all about. The sheriff knows a PPP has to be issued within 14 days of the application. Here is what was said in the press release:

    The press release asserts that “North Carolina General Statutes 14-403 and 404 only requires the sheriff issues a permit to purchase a firearm but sets no timeframe for when applications must be taken by the sheriff’s office.”

    As I stated in another thread, there is scant reference about the application process in the NCGS from what I can find. But here is what the statute says:

    14-404. Issuance or refusal of permit; appeal from refusal; grounds for refusal; sheriff's fee.

    (a) Upon application, and such application must be provided by the sheriff electronically, the sheriff shall issue the permit to a resident of that county, unless the purpose of the permit is for collecting, in which case a sheriff can issue a permit to a nonresident, when the sheriff has done all of the following: ...

    So the only language regarding the application process that would oblige the sheriff to take applications seems to be the "...application must be provided by the sheriff electronically..."

    If we don't test this now we won't be able to hold the sheriff's powers in check later on. Suspending the application process might become the law of the land.

    I for one do not believe the statute was written giving the sheriff latitude on when he can and cannot take applications. Otherwise the 14 rule would be moot.

    Having said all this, the current stay-at-home order by the governor might make the whole issue moot until we can freely travel to appear in person to receive the PPP.

    These are interesting times.
     
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  15. Combat Diver

    Combat Diver Well-Known Member

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    Same token the sheriffs office can mail the PPP.

    CD
     
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  16. JT

    JT Well-Worn Member Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    14-404 (f) applies to the imperative in (a):

    Each applicant for a license or permit shall be informed by the sheriff within 14 days of the date of the application whether the license or permit will be granted or denied and, if granted, the license or permit shall be immediately issued to the applicant.

    The word "shall" is an imperative under law. There is no permission - expressed or implied - for the sheriff to refuse applications, rather an imperative for the sheriff to accept and act on applications, period.

    Now if the Governator wants to try to use his executive power to direct the sheriff to suspend all operations (anything less would be discriminatory), that would be another matter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  17. MostWanted

    MostWanted I used to be JustInCase

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    The Idiot that sits in the Wake Sheriff's chair has retained the electronic application process, but now you have to go downtown to sign the medical waiver in person within five days before they will start processing the application. Then you have to go downtown again to pick it up. I don't believe Donnie required you to sign the waiver, or if he did, you could do it online. And why you have to go downtown to get it is truly a mystery.
     
  18. ripv2

    ripv2 ... Benefactor Charter Life Member

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  19. SPST

    SPST Member

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    Or, giving up essential liberty for a little while in order to save a nation.
     
  20. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    This Is Dangerous. I am not speaking to N.C. regulations, ya'll decided you were good with those decades ago. This thing of the Sheriff having the power to do this simply means to me....all bets are Off. You gonna keep me from the 2nd, I'm disregarding all your other "proclamations".
     
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  21. ripv2

    ripv2 ... Benefactor Charter Life Member

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  22. SPST

    SPST Member

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    They could drop the permit requirement but that's not going to happen. I'm not going to get my panties in a wad over this unless the Sheriff tries to continue doing it when the WuFlu is over.
     
  23. ripv2

    ripv2 ... Benefactor Charter Life Member

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  24. thrillhill

    thrillhill Super Moderator Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Meanwhile in more liberty minded areas:

    https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/n...enter/83-cb8a5924-85ee-4353-86fc-30e1a0042555



    "RANDOLPH COUNTY, N.C. — In an effort to continue issuing handgun purchase permits to Randolph County Citizens, all while attempting to comply with government social distancing regulations, the Randolph County Sheriff’s Office has set up the Mobile Command Center in its parking lot.

    According to the Randolph County Sheriff's Office, gun permit applications in Randolph County have significantly increased since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic."
     
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  25. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    And There you have it...night and day difference. This could be construed as seeing what the Populace will tolerate in each county.
     
  26. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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    I thought free men did free men stuff anyway...why even get a permit.


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  27. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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    Exactly, which has been my point all along. They are shutting down most anything they can. Not just gun permits.

    And as I’ve mentioned before, if they don’t bring them back, then we march.


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  28. 12151791

    12151791 schadenfreude | \ ˈshä-dᵊn-ˌfrȯi-də Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Wait till Cooper issues an order to release prisoners with non-violent felonies (like abusing children) and since these prisoners are already fingerprinted they can go ahead and apply for a permit if they reside in Wake county.
     
  29. ripv2

    ripv2 ... Benefactor Charter Life Member

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  30. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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  31. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Vendor

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    Sheriffs that won't give out any PPPs because they cannot give out as many as are being requested, need to be removed. They don't get to decide what part of their job they are going to do, and what part they are not going to do.

    Sounds similar to Attorneys General that use "Prosecutorial Discretion" to decide to let criminals go without being charged.
     
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  32. NCFubar

    NCFubar Well-Known Member

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    I’m not the smartest person ... and my memory might be slow ... but Donnie Harrison did not have a problem during the Gun Scare of 2012 (AKA the Sandy Hook Shakedown) because he knew how to handle his operation and staffing needs ... and he didn’t us lowly peasants having guns like asking Baker does.
     
  33. MostWanted

    MostWanted I used to be JustInCase

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    This man is like the dog that chased cars never thinking he would actually catch one, and then one day the unthinkable happened and now he has no idea of what to do with it. He has shown nothing but arrogance and contempt for the citizens that elected him since the night he won the election. He's supremely unqualified, petty and revengeful, incapable of intelligent thought, thinks the laws don't apply to him, and considers himself unaccountable to anyone. He thinks he can void any contract, write any contract, and throw the public out of the public range without even consulting anyone or following any laws or county purchasing ordinances. It is newsworthy when he puts enough words together to make a correctly articulated grammatically correct sentence. Ebonics is now the official language of the Sheriff's Department. He's an embarrassment to the County that needs to be marginalized until the next election when this mistake can be corrected. I sent $100 to GRNC the moment I heard about the lawsuit. I look forward to standing out in front of my polling place and campaigning for whomever runs against him in 2022.
     
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  34. Red Marley

    Red Marley Authorized person Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Precisely why the people who voted for him did so.
     
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  35. Gator

    Gator Parts guy Supporting Member

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    "Wait till Cooper issues an order to release prisoners with non-violent felonies........"


    Yeah, like all those who ignored the "stay at home" orders and got caught.

    .
     
  36. fishgutzy

    fishgutzy Senior Member

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    Dude is campaigning for reelection. That move gets him votes from libtards that continue to turn that area commie.

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  37. jimmyjames8

    jimmyjames8 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER! Baker got elected because he is soft on illegals and lots of folks like that because they provide cheap labor.
     
  38. jimmyjames8

    jimmyjames8 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    PS...I also just re-upped at GRNC. Next they need to go after Greg Ford and the Wake Co. commissioners on the gun store/gun range ? in the Wake Co. lock down proclamation.
     
  39. DCGallim

    DCGallim Resident Smart-A$$

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  40. MTNMAN1

    MTNMAN1 Active Member

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    Sent ya a PM about a box uv ammo .
     
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