Shooting High

jmccracken1214

jmccracken1214

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Just picked up a canik tp9SFL and have ran the following through it.

Tula 115
PMC 115
Blazer 115
Minute Man 115
Minute Man 124
Winchester Nato 124.

Some are worse than others, but all of it shoots high at 15-20 yards. but at 7-15 feet, its dead on.

I let others shoot as well, same thing.

Any reason for this?
 
jmccracken1214 said:
Just picked up a canik tp9SFL and have ran the following through it.

Tula 115
PMC 115
Blazer 115
Minute Man 115
Minute Man 124
Winchester Nato 124.

Some are worse than others, but all of it shoots high at 15-20 yards. but at 7-15 feet, its dead on.

I let others shoot as well, same thing.

Any reason for this?
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Yes...

The reason is you're pointing the barrel too high.

:D
 
jmccracken1214 said:
I did aim lower than the target and that seemed to fix it but i dont think thats what im searching for.
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Try raising the targets...that'll git'r done. ;)
 
jmccracken1214 said:
I did aim lower than the target and that seemed to fix it but i dont think thats what im searching for.
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My front sight machining was not correct on my Canik. I had the opposite effect. They most likely don’t make their own sights. Unlike a CZ most manufacturers don’t test fire and record data. That takes time which translates into money.
 
I only read the thread title and I think it's unacceptable that you're shooting high. Think about safety for yourself and those around you. Please shoot only when sober.
 
Geezer said:
I only read the thread title and I think it's unacceptable that you're shooting high. Think about safety for yourself and those around you. Please shoot only when sober.
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He's supposed to come over and shoot at my place if it doesn't rain tomorrow. I've just finished digging a big hole at the firing line. I'm thinkin' that should solve the problem.

:D
 
Jeppo said:
He's supposed to come over and shoot at my place if it doesn't rain tomorrow. I've just finished digging a big hole at the firing line. I'm thinkin' that should solve the problem.

:D
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Ya don't have to kill him!
 
Anybody got a source for pink balls on Memorial Day? :confused:
 
Majicmike said:
Turn the gun to a slight angle when shooting and let us know the results. Not sideways by any means.
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His gun won't shoot sideways...it's not a Glock. :D
 
It never shoots at the same spot. The line of sight is straight and the bullet is a ballistic arc.

The bullet is coming from below the line of sight and passing over it. Because the bore is below the sights/optic. At some point that bullet is going to come back down and be dead on again. Then it will continue down and be going lower as it goes further out.

The closer to the shooter it “is on” the more this will be exacerbated. Because the angle is steeper. Sight it in at 25 yards and it will be lesser.

This is the way it is for all guns. If you zero your AR at 25 yards for example, everything closer than 25 yards will be lower until you get to your barrel, then it will be precisely the same distance lower that is the distance of your sight or crosshair is over the bore of the barrel.

Everything past 25 yards will be higher until the bullet hits the top of its ballistic arc and comes back down, to cross back over the sight line and continue down below the sight line.
 
jmccracken1214 said:
Resting on a table, at 8 yards, 4 different types of ammo, all 115gr and 1 124gr, put them all in 1 ragged hole, 2" above point of aim.
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Next time, try resting THE GUN on the table! :D
 
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jmccracken1214 said:
It's all because I didnt have a hole to stand in. Your fault my gun doesnt work!

Hopefully the new front sight will fix the issue.
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But I did magically solve your FTE issue. :p
 
Catfish said:
While that is true I don't think it's relevant here. 9mm bullet drop in the 25-ish yards he's talking about is only 1/2 the diameter of a 9mm bullet.
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I am not talking about bullet drop. His bullet goes above his sights.

If something is "dead on" at 2.5 yards (waaaaay too close for a center hold zero on a pistol) , it can be quite high at 25 yards.

This is not an ammo/gun issue, it is a sight/zero issue most likely. Not trying to belabor a point here, but I think this really needs to be understood.
Just trying to help!

After a quick drawing / calculation:
My guns sights (Tanfo) is roughly 5/8" over the CL of the bore at the muzzle. With the bullet hitting dead center hold at 7 feet, that puts the bullet 6 1/8" high at 25 yards.

EDIT: So, at 7 feet his bullet impacts need to be well below the sights to be on at 25 yards with a center hold.
 
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NKD said:
I am not talking about bullet drop. His bullet goes above his sights.

If something is "dead on" at 2.5 yards (waaaaay too close for a center hold zero on a pistol) , it can be quite high at 25 yards.

This is not an ammo/gun issue, it is a sight/zero issue most likely. Not trying to belabor a point here, but I think this really needs to be understood.
Just trying to help!

After a quick drawing / calculation:
My guns sights (Tanfo) is roughly 5/8" over the CL of the bore at the muzzle. With the bullet hitting dead center hold at 7 feet, that puts the bullet 6 1/8" high at 25 yards.

EDIT: So, at 7 feet his bullet impacts need to be well below the sights to be on at 25 yards with a center hold.
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I won't have the option to try that distance for a few days. I did shoot it at 15 yards, and it was 4-5" high. And at 8 yards, it's 2-2.25" high
 
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jmccracken1214 said:
I won't have the option to try that distance for a few days. I did shoot it at 15 yards, and it was 4-5" high. And at 8 yards, it's 2-2.25" high
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We can get you back 25 yards here but without anything to brace the gun. Now that I think about it, we might be able to get you prone on the driveway with my little plastic pistol rest and set up a target 25 yards away.

With my coffee consumption and "abilities", I'd be off a few YARDS at that distance. :(
 
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jmccracken1214 said:
I won't have the option to try that distance for a few days. I did shoot it at 15 yards, and it was 4-5" high. And at 8 yards, it's 2-2.25" high
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Exactly. It will keep getting lower until it zeroes at 7 feet, then it will go below the sights until it is at height of bore at the muzzle.
 
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jmccracken1214 said:
I won't have the option to try that distance for a few days. I did shoot it at 15 yards, and it was 4-5" high. And at 8 yards, it's 2-2.25" high
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If you can zero at 21 feet / 7yards, that should put bullet at 1.5" highish at 25 yards, which might be more manageable.
 
I was focusing on the wrong portion of the pic then... here's the important part:

TargetShooting3.jpg
 
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NKD said:
If you can zero at 21 feet / 7yards, that should put bullet at 1.5" highish at 25 yards, which might be more manageable.
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If this is right, and I have NO reason not to believe it, ya'll are all straining gnats! Come clean now, how many of our folks can shoot a 1 1/2 in group at 25 yards? If NKD is right , and again I believe him, I know a few good shooters, a man that is aggravated by this variance is a HELL of a SHOT.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
If this is right, and I have NO reason not to believe it, ya'll are all straining gnats! Come clean now, how many of our folks can shoot a 1 1/2 in group at 25 yards? If NKD is right , and again I believe him, I know a few good shooters, a man that is aggravated by this variance is a HELL of a SHOT.
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@jmccracken1214 told me all the reasons he might not have shot well yesterday. All I know is, after watching him, I'm thinking about donating my guns to the Salvation Army. I heard the military always needs more firearms and I obviously have no use for 'em. :rolleyes:
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
If this is right, and I have NO reason not to believe it, ya'll are all straining gnats! Come clean now, how many of our folks can shoot a 1 1/2 in group at 25 yards? If NKD is right , and again I believe him, I know a few good shooters, a man that is aggravated by this variance is a HELL of a SHOT.
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I can tell you I can not. But I think you are missing the point of my post. I didn't say anything about holding a group size, or even imply anything about groups.

The point of my posts is not that people should all be able to hold 1.5" or 6" (or whatever) at 25/10/whatever yards, rather that they understand why their gun is dead on at 7 feet and shooting 6" high at 25 yards.

Because that is precisely what was asked in the first post and the reason for this thread. He didn't ask us what our groups are or why his groups are big/small, so I didn't attempt to answer that question. And, in no way is this splitting hairs, lol.
 
jmccracken1214 said:
It's all because I didnt have a hole to stand in. Your fault my gun doesnt work!

Hopefully the new front sight will fix the issue.
Click to expand...


jmccracken1214 said:
I won't have the option to try that distance for a few days. I did shoot it at 15 yards, and it was 4-5" high. And at 8 yards, it's 2-2.25" high
Click to expand...

I don't know your exact sight radius but it sounds like your rear sight is about 2-3/64 too tall (or your front is 2-3/64 too low). How much different is the new front sight?
 
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James said:
I don't know your exact sight radius but it sounds like your rear sight is about 2-3/64 too tall (or your front is 2-3/64 too low). How much different is the new front sight?
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from the slide to the top of the front sight is 0.198, Dawson Precision calculated the one i needed, was 0.251 but said if its within 0.005 it would be fine, so the closest they had for me was 0.255. Figured that would correct it enough to make it better.
 
NKD said:
I can tell you I can not. But I think you are missing the point of my post. I didn't say anything about holding a group size, or even imply anything about groups.

The point of my posts is not that people should all be able to hold 1.5" or 6" (or whatever) at 25/10/whatever yards, rather that they understand why their gun is dead on at 7 feet and shooting 6" high at 25 yards.

Because that is precisely what was asked in the first post and the reason for this thread. He didn't ask us what our groups are or why his groups are big/small, so I didn't attempt to answer that question. And, in no way is this splitting hairs, lol.
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Apparently I didn't express myself exactly as I meant. My point was what you said. The groups were only brought up to say if you can't shoot in X inches, an 1 1/2 high or low doesn't matter.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Apparently I didn't express myself exactly as I meant. My point was what you said. The groups were only brought up to say if you can't shoot in X inches, an 1 1/2 high or low doesn't matter.
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Ok, yeah I agree.

I went to a 25 yard zero for this reason. It's within an inch or so Hi/Lo all the way out to beyond 60 yards, which is beyond my capabilities.

I used to zero at 7 yards, and just hold under the further I went out with a 6 oclock hold. But with movement and everything else it became too much to think about.
 
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