Shooting Low and Left

BlackGun

BlackGun

Pimpin Ain’t Easy
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I’m not certain this is where this goes but any help would be appreciated. As the title says I am shooting low and left many times.

I know a couple things causes this and I have looked at a half dozen YouTube videos. Anticipation of the trigger pull and where my finger is on the trigger are two that stand out. So how do I determine what is the real issue? I have been looking at laser systems to do diagnostics but that is not real data because there is no firing to simulate the shot. What is the best method to find the cause? I put more finger pad on the trigger yesterday when I shot and it helped some but I was also shooting two new guns with great triggers. I’m thinking the guns themselves improved the process.

I’ll also add I have two contacts of different power. One for reading in the left eye for close, and the right eye is a prescription for distance. I also am left eye dominant so I turn my head to the right to look down the sights. One thing came to me today I have yet to think about and someone may be able to expand on it. Could it be possible I am milking the three right hand fingers on the grip while squeezing the trigger putting tension on the grip downward?
 
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I have the same issue with handguns. Play around with how much finger you put on the trigger. I found less was better.

I sometimes over anticipate the shot and do the same. It takes a lot of practice to work this out. Best method for me is to put a few live rounds and a few empty cases randomly in a revolver then spin the cylinder. Even better if someone else does it for you. If you get a buddy to record you then you can really see (and laugh at) the more subtle movement.
 
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I have the same problem and its worse for the first shots of the day. The video above is spot on.
 
One observation while shooting yesterday was the longer I aimed and attempted to focus, the more left and low the shots went. Time increase between shots brought less success.
 
I found a cheap GoPro at WM. I'm working on mounting it on my range. I hope watching replays (particularly of the snap cap/live round drills mentioned by L2S) will help me.
 
Jeppo said:
I found a cheap GoPro at WM. I'm working on mounting it on my range. I hope watching replays (particularly of the snap cap/live round drills mentioned by L2S) will help me.
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My son has a couple GoPros that might be useful. Earlier today I bought a spy camera in an ink pen for a shirt pocket. My thinking was it would give me an angle directly in line with the gun presentation. I can also use it to show my wife the ridiculous things she says and then has selective memory.
 
I'm thinkin' to set the camera off to my right and a bit in front of me. It should tell me a lot.
 
You can do the ball and dummy drill it is very enlightening for some people. You can also just watch your sights, for most it works best to start with no target and burn some rounds into the berm while wholly focused on watching what the sights are doing as the gun fires, work on pressing the trigger without disturbing them. You may find it beneficial to do some dry fire reps before or in between.

You should experiment with different finger positioning on the trigger.

You may be gripping too hard with your firing hand, it's very common, the harder you grip the less dexterity most people have for individual fingers and moving one is likely to cause you to squeeze them all. Grip hard with your support hand, just shy of shaking, and a lot less with your firing hand.

Grip angle, size, trigger reach and pull weight all can have some effect on how pronounced your deficiency is, but you can train through it.
 
I've only owned and carried sub compacts.
For me it was grip and trigger control. Made some adjustments, practiced, and now I'm right on. Couple years ago I sent this guy an email, he replied almost immediately asking me to call him. Maani talked with me for about a half hour, and I put into practice his advice along with other stuff I've learned. Just practice. Maybe YouTube "tip to keep from missing". ;) Seriously.
 
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Use some dummy rounds as other have noted. Have a buddy load your mags and insert dummy rounds within the mag.

It will clearly show the muzzle dip when you anticipate recoil. I'd bet the farm that is the problem.
 
BlackGun said:
I’ll also add I have two contacts of different power. One for reading in the left eye for close, and the right eye is a prescription for distance. I also am left eye dominant so I turn my head to the right to look down the sights.
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You are well and truly screwed. I noticed when we were shooting skeet that at times it appeared you had cross dominance issues.
Both of my contacts are for distance and I still need (by choice) to use readers for anything closer than arms length. If you're positive that your left eye is the dominate eye then get a distance contact and use a pair of readers to see the sights sharply and the target will be fuzzy. Place an orange dot in the middle of the target and you should be fine. You're over analyzing your problem with grip and all that crap.
If you want to join me at the range one day I'll be happy to help you through it.....
 
NKD said:
Use some dummy rounds as other have noted. Have a buddy load your mags and insert dummy rounds within the mag.

It will clearly show the muzzle dip when you anticipate recoil. I'd bet the farm that is the problem.
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I'm ordering some orange dummy rounds right now for practice.
 
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Bailey Boat said:
You are well and truly screwed. I noticed when we were shooting skeet that at times it appeared you had cross dominance issues.
Both of my contacts are for distance and I still need (by choice) to use readers for anything closer than arms length. If you're positive that your left eye is the dominate eye then get a distance contact and use a pair of readers to see the sights sharply and the target will be fuzzy. Place an orange dot in the middle of the target and you should be fine. You're over analyzing your problem with grip and all that crap.
If you want to join me at the range one day I'll be happy to help you through it.....
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I'd like that. We just need to get to come up with a time and date.
 
Dummy rounds as others have mentioned and letting a buddy load your mags like @NKD said.

Also, try doubling up on ear pro. Plugs and muffs. You’d be surprised how much eliminating some of the noise helps reduce flinch.
 
BlackGun said:
My son has a couple GoPros that might be useful. Earlier today I bought a spy camera in an ink pen for a shirt pocket. My thinking was it would give me an angle directly in line with the gun presentation. I can also use it to show my wife the ridiculous things she says and then has selective memory.
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About recording your wife......she's gonna be PISSED!!! LMAO. Are you a newly wed? If so, don't do it!
If not, well, good luck to you!!! In case we don't hear from you again...nice knowing you!
 
Blake Michetti said:
I bet you you’re right handed. It’s recoil anticipation and trigger manipulation. Watch this

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Learn how to jerk the trigger without moving the gun!!!!!!

No truer words have ever been spoken about shooting guns. LMAO
 
Millie said:
About recording your wife......she's gonna be PISSED!!! LMAO. Are you a newly wed? If so, don't do it!
If not, well, good luck to you!!! In case we don't hear from you again...nice knowing you!
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Millie I've been married for 30 years come August 27th, 2018. We dated for 6 years. I'm a damn caveman. I hit her in the head and drug her back to a cavern. She hasn't been surprised with me ever. But that was funny what you said. Keep it coming.
 
BlackGun said:
Millie I've been married for 30 years come August 27th, 2018. We dated for 6 years. I'm a damn caveman. I hit her in the head and drug her back to a cavern. She hasn't been surprised with me ever. But that was funny what you said. Keep it coming.
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Kudos on the 30 years, and for remembering the date! That's HUGE! She sounds like a good lady, so please don't piss her off!
 
BlackGun said:
I love it. That had me laughing and people looking at me like I'd lost my mind.
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I love that one too but if you want one that actually might help improve your targets look at this one. It was created by some guy name Lewis.

uzRwROp.jpg
 
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Grip, trigger press (not pull), follow through. Fundamentals count!

As far as eye dominence, keep your head upright and facing forward then move the sights to your left eye. In other words, move the gun, not your head.
 
BlackGun said:
I thought buying a Dan Wesson was going to correct all my issues. Must be the gun. Or I need more guns until I find the magic.
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I keep looking too. :(
 
Bailey Boat said:
How many people that expressed opinions have ever seen him shoot???
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He asked a question:
Anticipation of the trigger pull and where my finger is on the trigger are two that stand out. So how do I determine what is the real issue? I have been looking at laser systems to do diagnostics but that is not real data because there is no firing to simulate the shot. What is the best method to find the cause?
Click to expand...

And a bunch of people with experience gave him answers. We don't need to "see him shoot" to tell him our opinions and give him an answer to his simple question. Have a friend stick dummy rounds in your gun and it will become apparent if you are anticipating recoil.

We realize you are the expert of everything, so should everybody just quit posting and this can be the Bailey Boat Knows Everything Forum and you can just sit around flapping your pie hole all day? Wouldn't that be a fun forum!! Don't you think if he only wanted YOUR opinion he would have just sent a PM?

Your arrogance and hubris boggles the mind....and turns the stomach.
 
NKD said:
He asked a question:


And a bunch of people with experience gave him answers. We don't need to "see him shoot" to tell him our opinions and give him an answer to his simple question. Have a friend stick dummy rounds in your gun and it will become apparent if you are anticipating recoil.

We realize you are the expert of everything, so should everybody just quit posting and this can be the Bailey Boat Knows Everything Forum and you can just sit around flapping your pie hole all day? Wouldn't that be a fun forum!! Don't you think if he only wanted YOUR opinion he would have just sent a PM?

Your arrogance and hubris boggles the mind....and turns the stomach.
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And your ignorance and stupidity and obviously a boner for me, ceases to amaze me..... If you don't like what I say, use the ignore button or here's another idea, just don't read it!!! Got it AH??
 
Bailey Boat said:
And your ignorance and stupidity and obviously a boner for me, ceases to amaze me..... If you don't like what I say, use the ignore button or here's another idea, just don't read it!!! Got it AH??
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Naw, I don't have a "boner" for you. Man, that's just weird.
 
Well I went today and shot. Practiced with some dummy rounds. It’s obvious I’m either flinching or milking the grip. So I tried something a little different to see if it would help. I changed my grip to have my left hand fingers lap over the trigger guard. It’s something I saw on YouTube by a GM named Yung Lee. I will say it helped quite a bit as it forced my right hand to stay up on the trigger pull. From 27 feet with a cadence I was able to put shots in a 6” area. They were not all low/left. I’m still not certain it’s flinch or milking the three fingers from muscles in the trigger finger.

I can say that I have definitely identified my carry gun. The CZ2075bd RAMI is my holster gun. The new Dan Wesson 39’ and 45’ shots were in the critical zone although not in a good group. I shot in the Hickory dungeon. No air condition, target return only worked part of the time, and lead smell was awesome. Lighting was great practice for a late night intruder scenario. I feel more comfortable clearing rooms now.
 
Beware the P I P!!! It lives here at Battery Oaks. It affects everybody at some point in their daily shooting. P I P...Post Ignition Push...
 
I haven't read all the posts, so if this has come up ignore it.

I had a problem shooting my Beretta 92FS when I first got it. Could NOT hit squat for the life of me, an it's not as if I didn't know how to shoot a handgun.

First thing's first...gun or shooter?

Sit yourself down for some serious, slow-fire bench-rest shooting. No need for fancy equipment. Get comfortable, support your shooting hands on something stable, get a good "natural" sight picture.

By "natural" sight picture, I mean that it's easy and natural for you to hold and maintain your sight picture without having to do anything uncomfortable in the process. No awkward wrist positioning, etc.

Ideally, your trigger finger should have the pad of your fingertip centered on the trigger. The trigger should not be in the crease of the first knuckle (which would tend to pull the muzzle right if right handed and left if left handed). Likewise, the trigger should not be on the very tip of your finger (which would tend to push the muzzle left if you're right handed and right if you're left handed).

Then CONCENTRATE on maintaining your sight picture while slowly squeezing the trigger. When the gun fires, it should be a surprise.

This is the key...slow, methodical bench rest shooting while maintaining your sight picture.

If your shooting improves, the problem is you and you now have an idea where to concentrate your training.

If the problem persists, then the issue is either the gun or the ammo.


It may also help to do this shooting with someone experienced enough to critique your actions...and maybe also shoot the gun as well.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
I haven't read all the posts, so if this has come up ignore it.

I had a problem shooting my Beretta 92FS when I first got it. Could NOT hit squat for the life of me, an it's not as if I didn't know how to shoot a handgun.

First thing's first...gun or shooter?

Sit yourself down for some serious, slow-fire bench-rest shooting. No need for fancy equipment. Get comfortable, support your shooting hands on something stable, get a good "natural" sight picture.

By "natural" sight picture, I mean that it's easy and natural for you to hold and maintain your sight picture without having to do anything uncomfortable in the process. No awkward wrist positioning, etc.

Ideally, your trigger finger should have the pad of your fingertip centered on the trigger. The trigger should not be in the crease of the first knuckle (which would tend to pull the muzzle right if right handed and left if left handed). Likewise, the trigger should not be on the very tip of your finger (which would tend to push the muzzle left if you're right handed and right if you're left handed).

Then CONCENTRATE on maintaining your sight picture while slowly squeezing the trigger. When the gun fires, it should be a surprise.

This is the key...slow, methodical bench rest shooting while maintaining your sight picture.

If your shooting improves, the problem is you and you now have an idea where to concentrate your training.

If the problem persists, then the issue is either the gun or the ammo.


It may also help to do this shooting with someone experienced enough to critique your actions...and maybe also shoot the gun as well.
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If I'm using the crease of my finger on the trigger, can it PUSH a shot low left, instead of pulling right? (I'm a righty.)
 
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