Soylent Green already in the food supply chain?

GeorgeBush said:
@tanstaafl72555
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Thanks.

There are several different possibilities to exposure to something like this.

1) Look at the author, seek to find a link to something that would tie him to outrageous crazy nutball ideas about Zionism, UFOs, crystals, etc etc and then summarily dismiss him

2) Search for this claim/idea and then "debunked" in it (actually a very very very good step in research if you want a critique) and then summarily dismiss

3) Adopt the eye rolling dismissal of the topic without any research at all and look for a meme to mock

4) Assume that nothing is outside the realm of evil in men, assume that powers with access to large sums of money will lie like hell about it, while also assuming that gullible alarmists will believe anything, and then actually look at it, when you have time.

I will let you guess which of these four I choose.

Thanks again.
 
Reference to Soylent Green implies comsumption of human tissue, which the article then goes on to explain is NOT what they're writing about. I'm out when credibility is blown by the second paragraph.
 
Catfish said:
Reference to Soylent Green implies comsumption of human tissue, which the article then goes on to explain is NOT what they're writing about. I'm out when credibility is blown by the second paragraph.
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Do you think it is an impossibility that embryonic cells are used for various purposes? I am asking because that is something that comes up frequently (not only foodstuffs), and I have not had time to look at whether I think it merits consideration.

I guess with me it is a case of "NOTHING is off the table... NOTHING" and then I go from there. It does not mean that everything is equally believable, of course. The wilder the claim, the more fastidious and documented I would demand the evidence to be, but I admit that I rule out almost nothing nowadays.

Most of the fireworks about topics like this are between people and myself who differ on that basic point, not about the data itself. At least, that is my perceived experience.


....(edit) when you add that with my belief that evil seeks collective power, and that evil, money, and power in one place (government, usually) is the potential for eye popping displays of depravity, then things get really outrageous.
 
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tanstaafl72555 said:
Do you think it is an impossibility that embryonic cells are used for various purposes
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No of course it's not impossible. I'm just tired of this type of journalism.
When a writer begins an article with BS that has no purpose but to trigger the reader I don't trust anything they say after.
 
I found only one I use a couple times per year, Halls cough drops, wait, I get the generics.

Here’s a full list of products and companies provided by the Conservative Post:
PEPSI BEVERAGES:
• All Pepsi soft drinks
• Sierra Mist soft drinks
• Mountain Dew soft drinks
• Mug root beer and other soft drinks
• No Fear beverages
• Ocean Spray beverages
• Seattle’s Best Coffee
• Tazo beverages
• AMP Energy beverages
• Aquafina water
• Aquafina flavored beverages
• DoubleShot energy beverages
• Frappuccino beverages
• Lipton tea and other beverages
• Propel beverages
• SoBe beverages
• Gatorade beverages
• Fiesta Miranda beverages
• Tropicana juices and beverages

NESTLE PRODUCTS:
• All coffee creamers
• Maggi Brand instant soups, bouillon cubes, ketchups, sauces, seasoning, instant noodles

KRAFT – CADBURY ADAMS PRODUCTS:
• Black Jack chewing gum
• Bubbaloo bubble gum
• Bubblicious bubble gum
• Chiclets
• Clorets
• Dentyne
• Freshen Up Gum
• Sour Cherry Gum (Limited)
• Sour Apple Gum (Limited)
• Stride
• Trident

CADBURY ADAMS CANDIES:
• Sour Cherry Blasters
• Fruit Mania
• Bassett’s Liquorice All sorts
• Maynards Wine Gum
• Swedish Fish
• Swedish Berries
• Juicy Squirts
• Original Gummies
• Fuzzy Peach
• Sour Chillers
• Sour Patch Kids
• Mini Fruit Gums
• Certs breath mints
• Halls Cough Drops

NEOCUTIS “BEAUTY” PRODUCTS:
Neocutis uses aborted male baby cells after a 14-week gestation period in their anti-wrinkle creams. The following creams they sell contain aborted fetal cells.
• Bio-Gel Prevedem Journee
• Bio-Serum Lumiere
• Bio Restorative Skin Cream

VACCINES:
• MMR II (Merck)
• ProQuad (MMR + Chickenpox — Merck)
• Varivax (Chickenpox — Merck)
• Pentacel (Polio + DTaP + HiB — Sanofi Pasteur)
• Vaqta (Hepatitis-A — Merck)
• Havrix (Hepatitis-A — Glaxo SmithKline)
• Twinrix (Hepatitis-A and B combo — Glaxo)
• Zostavax (Shingles — Merck)
• Imovax (Rabies — Sanofi Pasteur)

OTHER MEDICINES:
• Pulmozyme (Cystic Fibrosis — Genetech)
• Enbrel (Rheumatoid Arthritis — Amgen)
 
It's a 2015 article but I'd never heard this before and the article says human tissue is being used for flavor additives.

That's why I threw it up here. If it can be debunked or refuted it would be.

The jury is still out in my book, I don't know for certain either way.
 
Tim said:
A source just as credible as the OP's debunks this rather thoroughly:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/senomyx-flavor-additive/
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Yes and no. Some debunking of the most wild-eyed claims about baby parts in the Pepsi, yes. But evidence that Senomyx isn't telling the truth about its additives. And no actual evidence that Pepsi isn't using products derived from HEK293, which is indeed a cell line derived from a fetus killed almost 50 years ago. For example, Senomyx tries to distance itself from HEK293, but
All but 7 of the company’s 77 patents refer to the use of HEK 293 (human embryonic kidney) cells, which researchers have used for decades as biological workhorses.
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So it's only a sorta debunking, not really a thorough debunking.
 
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From the article:
“Kraft, PepsiCo, Nestle, work with Semonyx, a California-based [company] that uses aborted embryonic cells to test fake flavoring chemicals.

The aborted human fetal cell line is known as “HEK-293,” and it is used to see how the human palate will react to synthetic flavors. Since most of today’s processed food lacks flavor, companies like Semonyx are hired to develop flavors on their own.”

So there is no claim that any company uses human tissue as a component of the flavoring chemicals, rather that they expose the tissue/cells to a potential flavor and see how the cells respond. The cells do not go into the product any more than the petri dish or test tube do. So, if you don’t want to support the company, don’t, I don’t care, but don’t act out of ignorance.
 
Catfish said:
No of course it's not impossible. I'm just tired of this type of journalism.
When a writer begins an article with BS that has no purpose but to trigger the reader I don't trust anything they say after.
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So, about 90% of what's called "Journalism" today, then. Most of it seems to be what you described, the only difference is a matter of degree.
 
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random said:
Hey, now, no need to insult the OP's source like that!
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I have pretty thick skin and don't take offense easily. I've never seen the article or the site which is why I posted it here. CFF is like peer review by folks with well turned BS detectors. We must be experts because we sling so much of it.

Although I will say you'd have to be a known card carrying commie propogandist to descend to the level of SPLC. That might have been a heaping bucket of healthy scepticism with just a tad bit of hyperbole.
 
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JimB said:
From the article:
“Kraft, PepsiCo, Nestle, work with Semonyx, a California-based [company] that uses aborted embryonic cells to test fake flavoring chemicals.

The aborted human fetal cell line is known as “HEK-293,” and it is used to see how the human palate will react to synthetic flavors. Since most of today’s processed food lacks flavor, companies like Semonyx are hired to develop flavors on their own.”

So there is no claim that any company uses human tissue as a component of the flavoring chemicals, rather that they expose the tissue/cells to a potential flavor and see how the cells respond. The cells do not go into the product any more than the petri dish or test tube do. So, if you don’t want to support the company, don’t, I don’t care, but don’t act out of ignorance.
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Effing thank you.

Using immortal cell lineage testing is the most ethical testing we currently have. I used HEK and HeLa lines in college.

Also, BlackJack gum... Hadn't thought about that in years.
 
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So, are we eating babies, or what?

#climatechange #stolemychildhood
 
we have been eating babies.
what have you been eating?
 
Howland said:
It's a 2015 article but I'd never heard this before and the article says human tissue is being used for flavor additives.

That's why I threw it up here. If it can be debunked or refuted it would be.

The jury is still out in my book, I don't know for certain either way.
Click to expand...

The volume of the common products listed in the article is far to large to be made by using the tissue of recently-aborted fetuses.

I don't care if laboratory-grown tissue from a fetus aborted half a century ago is used in research to make flavoring products.

The OP article seems to try to avoid details while leading readers toward an emotionally-charged but probably impossible conclusion - in short, propaganda.
 
Tim said:
A source just as credible as the OP's debunks this rather thoroughly:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/senomyx-flavor-additive/
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You actually READ this "rebuttal"???????

That is the problem here. Just slapping up a "rebuttal" which actually CONFIRMS the charge is not really using powers of reason. It is just cheerleading and yelling "GO TEAM!!!"

The "rebuttal" says clearly that the products used in flavoring tests (edited for clarity here) are grown from cells harvested from a "healthy"(??????) aborted fetus. It then goes on to poo poo the charge that this is using human cells as a takeoff of classical music etc etc.

Rather, this is the actual objection to harvesting tissue from aborted kids TO BEGIN WITH. My God, they are not charging that Nestle puts them in a blender and serves them up or something. Just how stupid do you (or the objective dispassionate folks at snopes) think we are? The issue is that tissue is used as a substrate to grow "helpful" things, whether it be brain tissue implants (this is an area of research), or liver cells (ditto) or any number of replacement/repair "parts." This was what Daleiden and his crew were taping, the sale of aborted baby part TO MEDICAL RESEARCH FACILITIES..., so they could use them as templates to grow tissue/parts.

This is typical of the shallow, illogical hysterical shrieking that the culture of death CHARGES those who have a concern for human life. It is the most hypocritical, shallow, unsubstantiated and knee jerk emotional cloying nonsense I have ever seen, and I have seen some astoundingly stupid and reactionary fundamentalists in my time.

As I have observed it over the years (ever since I first became aware of the pro life stuff back in 1978, in reading Francis Schaeffer), I have rather become increasingly disgusted and contemptuous with the pathetic and nonsensical dithyrambs about the critics of their black arts being irrational gullible rubes who do not employ reason.

People who echo such nonsense should be ashamed of themselves.

BLUF, read your "rebuttal" and you will find that it rather substantiates, rather than refutes.
 
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This is just a skirmish in the propaganda war of the culture of life v death.
Here is the script:

1) Culture of death denigrates and despises life, and demands to kill kids. Lists a number of "good" reasons and "helpful" outcomes, from rape/incest to the wonderful advances in medicine if we grind up little Mary and put her in a petri dish.

2)Culture of life is appropriately horrified, and raises an alarm

3) Culture of death puts on its "too cool for all this" suit and dismisses them as ideological descendents of the Salem witch trial judges, with a whole battery of pseudosophisticated sneers.

4) Culture of death then finds a lede of some person who is so distraught over the butchery that emotion is used as a substitute for, rather than buttress of, the documentation of the butchery. They then prance around the target like some mau mau dance, celebrating their cognitive superiority and ridiculing the emotional excesses and uninformed hysteria of the rubes.

5) Original monstrosity is forgotten, while we have ourselves a good chuckle at the fat ass walmart commando refugees from the set of "Deliverance" and their exciteableness.

The real dumbasses here are the ones take for a ride by the elite shapers of opinion, and I don't care who it pisses off to say it.
 
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Reading these posts is like putting my head in one of those playdoh machines that spits out french fries.

Oh and if you could read you would know, per your own source and snopes, they aren't used for flavoring. They are used as a testing tool or medium during the product development phase. They are not present in the final product nor do they contribute to the taste.

Fast forward - This is still the flat-earth principle I mentioned earlier. It doesn't matter how many times we tell you, or demonstrate it, or if someone in this thread actually worked with these cells in a lab. No flat-earther ever cared I disproved their BS with a sundial or any other experiments either.

It's just something for you to yammer about, plain and simple... its called trolling and its fine.
 
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tanstaafl72555 said:
The "rebuttal" says clearly that the products used as flavoring are grown from cells harvested from a "healthy"(??????) aborted fetus. It then goes on to poo poo the charge that this is using human cells as a takeoff of classical music etc etc.
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No.

There is a huge difference between your version that fetal cells are used as product flavoring and the "rebuttal" that fetal cells were used in testing artificial flavors.
It’s important to note here that — whatever one might think of fetal stem cell research in general, and regardless of whether or not Senomyx uses HEK 293-derived cells in its development efforts — neither Pepsi nor any other U.S. food company is manufacturing or selling any consumable products “that are actually made using the cell tissue of unborn babies that were murdered through abortion.”
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GeorgeBush said:
Reading these posts is like putting my head in one of those playdoh machines that spits out french fries.

Oh and if you could read you would know, per your own source and snopes, they aren't used for flavoring. They are used as a testing tool or medium during the product development phase. They are not present in the final product nor do they contribute to the taste.
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original charge:
It’s true: A company based out of California, known as Senomyx, is in the business of using aborted embryonic cells to test fake flavoring chemicals, both savory and sweet, which are then added to things like soft drinks, candy and cookies.

Have the decency and intellectual honesty to accurately represent what you are arguing against, please.

Irrelevant crap addendum deleted.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
Have the decency and intellectual honesty to accurately represent what you are arguing against, please.
Click to expand...

Good Lord is this real? Look at the title you slapped on this thing, buddy. This is a common conspiracy that's kicked around on a lot more pages than the one you linked. The entire thing feeds off the outrage generated by eating fetuses. The verbage on all of them is carefully selected to generate that exact outrage while giving people like you a flimsy out. If you want to be a troll don't break their most sacred law by backpedaling.

@Catfish already pointed this out, not me, but why would you choose this thread title? Only two possibilities:

1) You think we are consuming humans.
2) You wanted to argue.

I suppose a third possibility is you didn't read much of the original material so when it was pointed out they are used for testing purposes... that became the new conspiracy (again fits my flat-earth sundial example). Also this possibility comes with an extra added bonus! Now YOU can attack US for being morons and thinking we are eating babies!

I just can't even...
 
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A very good point; I even brought him into this thread with a tag.

I'm obviously wound too tight today.

EDIT: I think the discussion was answered as well as it could have been with JimB's very good response. I owe tanstaafl72555 an apology but don't apologize for my point about the language these sites use.
 
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GeorgeBush said:
Good Lord is this real? Look at the title you slapped on this thing, buddy. This is a common conspiracy that's kicked around on a lot more pages than the one you linked. The entire thing feeds off the outrage generated by eating fetuses. The verbage on all of them is carefully selected to generate that exact outrage while giving people like you a flimsy out. If you want to be a troll don't break their most sacred law by backpedaling.

@Catfish already pointed this out, not me, but why would you choose this thread title? Only two possibilities:

1) You think we are consuming humans.
2) You wanted to argue.

I suppose a third possibility is you didn't read much of the original material so when it was pointed out they are used for testing purposes... that became the new conspiracy (again fits my flat-earth sundial example). Also this possibility comes with an extra added bonus! Now YOU can attack US for being morons and thinking we are eating babies!

I just can't even...
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The original outrage (which I quoted, for God's sake) never referred to "eating babies." I do not care about the hitcountwhores who pick this up and embellish it with insinuations (or outright claims) that the original article never made. My argument is with the whole culture of death. You seem to defend them because of some shrill over hyping of what they are doing (which again, the original article never claimed, and I mocked myself as putting baby parts into blenders).

So long as you dismiss legitimate outrage at the commodification of human beings because some internet outrage junkie overplays the headline, you are simply a tool for the sneering elitists. Really

I understand the wickedness of those who love and embrace death and hate any suggestion of "you may not do this because human beings have value." I do. What I don't understand is the willing subservience to that bunch of hypocritical liars lest one be thought.... "exciteable." There are real issues here, and dismissing them as wailing rants about baby filets grilled at Texas Roadhouse is playing the rules of those who have neither honesty nor decency, which I don't believe about you.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
The original outrage (which I quoted, for God's sake) never referred to "eating babies." I do not care about the hitcountwhores who pick this up and embellish it with insinuations (or outright claims) that the original article never made. My argument is with the whole culture of death. You seem to defend them because of some shrill over hyping of what they are doing (which again, the original article never claimed, and I mocked myself as putting baby parts into blenders).

So long as you dismiss legitimate outrage at the commodification of human beings because some internet outrage junkie overplays the headline, you are simply a tool for the sneering elitists. Really

I understand the wickedness of those who love and embrace death and hate any suggestion of "you may not do this because human beings have value." I do. What I don't understand is the willing subservience to that bunch of hypocritical liars lest one be thought.... "exciteable." There are real issues here, and dismissing them as wailing rants about baby filets grilled at Texas Roadhouse is playing the rules of those who have neither honesty nor decency, which I don't believe about you.
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So let's talk about HEK-293 then. That's obviously the problem but what exactly is the problem? Where they came from, what they are, or how they are used? Then we can go from there.

1) Where they came from: HEK 293 cells were generated in 1973 by transfection of cultures of normal human embryonic kidney cells with sheared adenovirus 5 DNA in Alex van der Eb's laboratory in Leiden, the Netherlands. The cells were obtained from a single, apparently healthy, legally aborted fetus under Dutch law; the identity of the parent and the reason for the abortion are unknown.

2) What they are: Human embryonic kidney 293 cells, also often referred to as HEK 293, HEK-293, 293 cells, or less precisely as HEK cells, are a specific cell line originally derived from human embryonic kidney cells grown in tissue culture. HEK 293 cells have been widely used in cell biology research for many years, because of their reliable growth and propensity for transfection. They are also used by the biotechnology industry to produce therapeutic proteins and viruses for gene therapy.

3) How they are used (in this case): [Senomyx] appears to be engineering HEK cells to function like the taste-receptor cells we have in our mouth. This way, Senomyx can test millions of substances to see if they work as different types of taste enhancers without subjecting human volunteers to endless taste tests.

EDIT: Simply put I think it's probably the "ew" factor that accompanies dead babies so this is likely just another abortion thread. That being said... the "ew" factor has also been applied to people donating their bodies to science forever... so are we going to say all those donations were bad too? Or only the fetal ones?

Have adults donating their bodies to science made the world a better place or worse? Medically speaking they have probably saved countless lives or made them better... but in other ways, maybe weapons testing, they have arguably helped end some too.

Or what about taking tendons and ligaments from cadavers? Corneas? They have helped a great many people and I'm sure HEK-293 has as well... but I keep coming to the conclusion it's the fetus' lack of consent that makes it different.
 
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GeorgeBush said:
EDIT: I owe tanstaafl72555 an apology but don't apologize for my point about the language these sites use.
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Well, I never thought you owed me an apology at all. These are issues that are important and I expect flares.
I do agree that the language on any number of internet sites is irresponsible. Hysteria mongering is the currency of the internet.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
original charge:
It’s true: A company based out of California, known as Senomyx, is in the business of using aborted embryonic cells to test fake flavoring chemicals, both savory and sweet, which are then added to things like soft drinks, candy and cookies.

Have the decency and intellectual honesty to accurately represent what you are arguing against, please.

Irrelevant crap addendum deleted.
Click to expand...

this is the difference between "Let's eat, Grandpa" and "Let's eat Grandpa."

Aborted cells are used to see how THE CELLS react to flavoring chemicals.
THE FLAVORING CHEMICALS are then added to things like soft drinks, candy and cookies.
The cells from the aborted embryo are not put in the consumer goods.

(The aborted cells are then put in a hazmat container and disposed of, hopefully.)
 
OK, let's change the subject to a recent proposal to use live humans as replacements for crash test dummies. We should get more valid test data.

We won't use consenting adults, rather we'll just randomly select people. That makes it more representative. Plus, it's more fair. Of course those implementing the program would be exempted, as would those who conceived the idea and those who support it.

It's a shame that their families will miss them. Maybe we can restrict the test subjects to the homeless. Yeah, that dehumanizes them better than calling them people, especially if we convince ourselves that if nobody wants them, their lives have no real value. Plus, dehumanizing them makes it easier to sleep at night.

Anybody opposed to safer automobiles with the added benefit of alleviating the homeless problem is just a speed bump on the road to progress. And the ones saying we put dead people in cars are just liars. They aren't really people either.
 
Howland said:
OK, let's change the subject to a recent proposal to use live humans as replacements for crash test dummies. We should get more valid test data.

We won't use consenting adults, rather we'll just randomly select people. That makes it more representative. Plus, it's more fair. Of course those implementing the program would be exempted, as would those who conceived the idea and those who support it.

It's a shame that their families will miss them. Maybe we can restrict the test subjects to the homeless. Yeah, that dehumanizes them better than calling them people, especially if we convince ourselves that if nobody wants them, their lives have no real value. Plus, dehumanizing them makes it easier to sleep at night.

Anybody opposed to safer automobiles with the added benefit of alleviating the homeless problem is just a speed bump on the road to progress. And the ones saying we put dead people in cars are just liars. They aren't really people either.
Click to expand...

key word: people.
you can't miss someone if you never met them.
i would be all for using convicted murderers and rapists for this though.
 
Howland said:
OK, let's change the subject to a recent proposal to use live humans as replacements for crash test dummies. We should get more valid test data.

We won't use consenting adults, rather we'll just randomly select people. That makes it more representative. Plus, it's more fair. Of course those implementing the program would be exempted, as would those who conceived the idea and those who support it.
Click to expand...
I am all for using “representative” - I have several in mind that no one will miss :)
 
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