I know you need NFA paperwork when crossing state lines with NFA items, but what about when just transporting them to and from the range? Am I legally required to have, at minimum, photocopies of my Form 4 for each item when not at home? I ask because I had the senior RSO at a range I frequent tell me it was the law. I always have copies with me when I go to the range mostly because the RSOs feel they are junior ATF agents.
Stamps when travelling
- Thread starter Jim_Sr
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BigWaylon
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It’s not the law. It may be a range rule, but it’s not the law. See the last item on the F4:
Now, many states (including NC) say all NFA items are illegal. The exception is if they’re properly registered. So having them with you may convince a LEO they’re registered. But no law says you have to carry them. Even with the ATF, it doesn’t say “immediately” or “on the spot” or anything similar.
For interstate transport, nothing says you have to carry any paperwork. Look in that same pic a couple items up. Just says you may be required to obtain permission first. Kinda similar to the PPP system we used to have. For a purchase from a non-FFL, it just said the buyer had to obtain a permit first. Never said they had to show/give it to seller.
If you’re worried about it, just copy the first page of each one and shove those in binder/folder. I’ve never shown any form to anybody for anything other than an education.
Now, many states (including NC) say all NFA items are illegal. The exception is if they’re properly registered. So having them with you may convince a LEO they’re registered. But no law says you have to carry them. Even with the ATF, it doesn’t say “immediately” or “on the spot” or anything similar.
For interstate transport, nothing says you have to carry any paperwork. Look in that same pic a couple items up. Just says you may be required to obtain permission first. Kinda similar to the PPP system we used to have. For a purchase from a non-FFL, it just said the buyer had to obtain a permit first. Never said they had to show/give it to seller.
If you’re worried about it, just copy the first page of each one and shove those in binder/folder. I’ve never shown any form to anybody for anything other than an education.
OP
Thanks, that's what I figured. I do carry copies of the front page any time I travel with them. Funny aside, several weeks ago I had an RSO give me a hard time since I only had copies of the front page and not the back page! They never seem to care about supressors, only the full auto. Are they really any different in the eyes of the ATF?
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does he know they're 3 pages now?
there was one range in detroit that got into trouble for their own bookkeeping. after that they were on their ps and qs, and went so far as to make you show stamps for nfa items you shot there (due to the high rate of locals bringing in homemade SBRs, SBSs/sawed off guns, and auto switch glocks)
the first time they asked, i asked why they needed my tax records, and the dude pointed at a sign on the wall and he said "house rules, show 'em or take the guns back outside". I grumbled and started to pull out the forms, rso saw i had some and said "you're good. I don't need to see them, just making sure that you aren't bringing illegal guns in here"
some places have reasons... kind of.
I was going to do that. Not sure if it is true but was told once I show LEO my phone, that is permission for them to SEARCH the entire phone.
Clicker
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This ^
I've always carried paper copies vs a PDF on the phone simply because I'm not allowing any LEO to take my phone back to their car and call in my info.
I had a run in with an idiot officer that threatened to arrest me because I didn't have a "license" for one of my MG's. After his third interruption & threat during my attempt to explain that I wasn't a FFL/SOT I simply stated I have what you want and handed him the F4 document. Several minutes later he returns and hands me back my form and tries to back peddle a bit about his "license" statement & threats. There are plenty of great LEO's along with the D-bags so I take the approach that they aren't my friends any time I have an interaction with any of them that involves guns.
To prove this point I now hand over a F4 that doesn't even match the gun in question to see if they know what they are looking at. None have never even looked at the gun to confirm it matches the paperwork!
BTW these issues occurred at a public range in the National Forest, I've never experienced problems of this sort at a private facility.
Shrunk down laminated copies in my range bag and scans on my phone. Although I have yet to be asked for any copies. I look trustworthy for some reason. Nothing to see here, more along!