Steel case ammo gtg?

Damn_Yankee

Damn_Yankee

"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time"
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Anything wrong with running steel case ammo? I am planning on buying a case soon and the cost difference between Wolf MC and the Fiocchi brass is about $70. I have a nickel boron BCG if that matters.
 
Damn_Yankee said:
Anything wrong with running steel case ammo? I am planning on buying a case soon and the cost difference between Wolf MC and the Fiocchi brass is about $70. I have a nickel boron BCG if that matters.
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Ive run a metric s$&t ton of it. A hard primer here and there but that’s it. It’s my go to range ammo


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Tough to beat $209.50 for 1000 rds. shipped from Target Sports USA.


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I shoot a ton of it. Someone will be along shortly to tell you that’s it’s bad for your gun.

If your gun won’t shoot it. Get another gun
 
Just shot some last week. Almost exclusively shoot steel through my AR, no issues.
 
I shoot a lot of it too. When precision and reliability aren't a priority steel is cheap and dirty, just the way I like it. At the same time, the only stuck case I've had to deal with was steel. I guess it depends on what you demand from your ammo.
 
As above, I shoot a ton of steel cased ammo. I have had very few issues with it. While I would never recommend it or "serious use" I do think it is great for practice.

There is a group of shooters out there who worship a study done by The Lucky Gunner a few years back that showed that steel cased ammo will damage your barrel and will be highly unreliable. Whenever this question is asked they will throw this study up like it is the gospel. Yet, they fail to mention the limitations of the study. I am sure it will be brought up here at some point.
 
Gear Head said:
Send it. I shoot matches with it when I know I can't or won't want to pick up brass.
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Absolutely, forgot to mention this as a great benefit. Steel cased ammo is "fire and forget". Save the brass cased stuff for when you have plenty of time to become a brass chicken without getting in the way of people at a match.
 
I shoot a ton of it, through my pistol and AR. Other than the occasional hard primary, I haven’t had any issues.
 
Personally I am not a fan of it in precision firearms. Loose tolerance ones, not so bad.

My problem is that in general steel on steel may wear the chamber more than brass on steel, because brass is the softer material.

I’ve seen plenty of cases that have been reloaded several times and the outer portion of the case is scratched up. My logic is that this means that the chamber did not get scratched since the brass is softer. However, if it’s steel on steel then logically the chamber may be receiving some accelerated wear.

Perhaps there is some information regarding barrel versus steel ammo case metallurgy that will prove that the ammo case is softer than the barrel, but I’m not aware of it.
 
Scsmith42 said:
Personally I am not a fan of it in precision firearms. Loose tolerance ones, not so bad.

My problem is that in general steel on steel may wear the chamber more than brass on steel, because brass is the softer material.

I’ve seen plenty of cases that have been reloaded several times and the outer portion of the case is scratched up. My logic is that this means that the chamber did not get scratched since the brass is softer. However, if it’s steel on steel then logically the chamber may be receiving some accelerated wear.

Perhaps there is some information regarding barrel versus steel ammo case metallurgy that will prove that the ammo case is softer than the barrel, but I’m not aware of it.
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Well, hell! Obviously you are at least a little smarter than me. I shoot it out of one gun. Hope I have a backup when that one fails. Or I hope I buy high enough quality firearms that my chambers are better than my ammo. There is a cost to low pricd weapons.
 
It isn’t designed to be precision ammo, so never expect it to perform as such. If you have a rifle you baby then yes, perhaps steer clear of it.

The reason it is dirtier is that steel doesn’t obturate the same way brass does. When the round goes off brass expands very well and seals the chamber. Steel not so much. This can lead to a little more blow back into the chamber. This led many to believe that it was the coating on the rounds that was melting and sticking, but it was really just funk from the burned powder coating the chamber and making it tighter.

That said, the cases are made of mild steel which is extremely soft stuff. Not as soft as brass, but far far softer than the hardened steel used in barrels, chambers, and extractors.

So again, it’s good and cheap ammo for blasting and plinking. But don’t expect extreme accuracy from a round that is so inexpensive. When you pay $4 a box you can’t expect $20 box performance.


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For blasting ammo, it's fine. Don't expect great accuracy out of it.

For those who say steel case on steel barrel is an issue, bear in mind that steel can vary tremendously in hardness. If the cases were a high carbon tool steel, then I'd say there is an issue. If the cases are a mild steel, then no problem if your barrel is properly heat treated to the correct hardness.
 
I use it too. For lost brass matches and plinking and shooting paper. Some things to be aware of:

-It will wear out your barrel faster, this has been proven to my satisfaction. Steel is harder than brass. But with the money you save by the time the barrel wears out (20,000+ rounds), you can buy several new barrels.
-Can be harder on extractor
-It will make your chamber and upper receiver more dirty, because it doesn't fireform to chamber like brass, so it allows gas to pass back by.
-After shooting steel case, brass gets stuck easier because dirty chamber. And the steel can stick too.
-Primers are generally harder and some triggers might have problems if using light springs.
-The "Bimetal" bullets can allegedly be harder on steel targets and many places will not allow you to shoot their steel with it (my club doesn't allow it).
-IME, it has been less accurate than decent brass
-You cannot reload it so the cases are worthless, unlike brass which you can retreive and reuse/sell.

If you have an inexpensive gun and you want cheap ammo to get a feel for it and plan on shooting mostly paper you should be fine.
 
NKD said:
-The "Bimetal" bullets can allegedly be harder on steel targets and many places will not allow you to shoot their steel with it (my club doesn't allow it).
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I agree 100% with your post with the exception of this statement. There is no 'allegedly' to it with steel core/bi-metal ammo being harder on steel targets. Bi-metal/steel core .223 ammo will pit or even punch through steel targets. Not only does it get expensive to replace the targets, it's a major safety concern with regard to ricochet and fire hazard.

Some of the matches I shoot, if you're caught with steel core ammo you pay for the steel target and it's an automatic match DQ.
 
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To put things a bit in perspective as far as cost...I just ran the numbers based on current prices from Outdoor Limited:

.223 Steel (Red Army Standard) is 44% less expensive than .223 Brass from Federal, and .33% less expensive than Ten Ring Reman

9mm steel Tula is only 17% less than Blazer CCI Brass.

As NKDs example, if steel rifle ammunition burns out your barrel after 20k rounds, you would have saved $1,769 shooting steel as opposed to Brass. Which equals somewhere between 5 and 17 new barrels or 88 new extractors.
 
Tim said:
I agree 100% with your post with the exception of this statement. There is no 'allegedly' to it with steel core/bi-metal ammo being harder on steel targets. Bi-metal/steel core .223 ammo will pit or even punch through steel targets. Not only does it get expensive to replace the targets, it's a major safety concern with regard to ricochet and fire hazard.

Some of the matches I shoot, if you're caught with steel core ammo you pay for the steel target and it's an automatic match DQ.
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Indeed. I put “allegedly” because I know that many disagree and didn’t want to argue about it.
I don’t know of any matches that allow it. And our club does not allow any ammo that attracts a magnet.
So I don’t personally use it on steel at all.
 
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Tim said:
I agree 100% with your post with the exception of this statement. There is no 'allegedly' to it with steel core/bi-metal ammo being harder on steel targets. Bi-metal/steel core .223 ammo will pit or even punch through steel targets. Not only does it get expensive to replace the targets, it's a major safety concern with regard to ricochet and fire hazard.

Some of the matches I shoot, if you're caught with steel core ammo you pay for the steel target and it's an automatic match DQ.
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Steel cased ammo such as wolf and Tula is not steel core ammo, shooting AR500 with bi-metal ammo is not different that m193, M855 is steel core and it will put pits into AR500.

I have cut many projectiles from various steel cased ammo in half and it has been a soft lead core every time, most M80 7.62x51 ammo is bi-metal, the steel used in the jacket is a very mild and soft steel that will only cause your barrel to wear out maybe a couple of thousand rounds faster than copper jackets, in the Lucky Gunner test the steel cased barrels wore out around 8k and the brass around 10k, now keep in mind these guys were running the guns simulating full auto fire, they way most of us shoot we will get far more rounds down range before we see the barrels wear out.

In a test I helped with we ran over 1k of steel cased ammo, 1k of m193 and then 500 rounds of M855 on some AR500 target in two range sessions, the M193 and Tula left zero Divets on the targets, the M855 put small pot marks on the targets and after 500 rounds the target started to bow in the middle, these are 3/8” thick targets, the 1/2” we tested the second time around held up perfectly with the Wolf/Tula and M193, again the M855 left small pot marks but even after 1k of M855 it did now bow, after testing was complete the range director approved the use of AR500 in the short bays as long as you were not shooting M855.

Take that for what it’s worth but I have never seen wolf or Tula in .223, 7.62x39 or any handgun caliber harm an AR500 Target, .308 or 7.62x51 inside of 100 yards then yeah it’s going to jack up your stuff, but copper jacked rounds will as well.
 
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Guys...I have changed my mind. Steel cased ammo is absolute garbage. If you shoot it your guns will blow up, your kids will become liberals, your dog will catch the clap, and your wife will find your receipts from your gun purchases.

PM me immediately for shipping instructions to properly discard this horrible stuff.
 
It’s all I’ve shot for the past 5yr+. Ok probably 98%. In probably 15 AR’s between me and 2 friends. No issues and accuracy is just fine for multi-gun matches and plinking.

I guess I’ll also add that I did a little test to see how long it would take for my LMT 14.5” carbine to fail while shooting wolf/Tula/bear. I got to about 1,100 rounds with nothing but occasional LIGHT clp before it had a failure to chamber. This was over a long period, not a single session torture test.
 
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Jayne said:
For some reason I was remembering that 6k rounds of bi-metal 223 is enough to degrade an AR barrel?
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Wrong.
Maybe if you did mag dumps for 6k rounds all day.

Youll get probably double that. But 98% of people will never burn up a barrel shooting steel or brass, and if they do, they should already be ready to buy a new one, which isnt that expensive compared to the amount of ammo that it took to burn said barrel up.
 
jmccracken1214 said:
Wrong.
Maybe if you did mag dumps for 6k rounds all day.
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I found it, it was in the aforementioned and maligned lucky gunner test. 5k was their number for the bi-metal rounds. If true, my PSA barrel is half used up. Another few thousand and I'm going to have to learn to change it (buying tools and a barrel out of cash I've saved using steel. :) )
 
Jayne said:
I found it, it was in the aforementioned and maligned lucky gunner test. 5k was their number for the bi-metal rounds. If true, my PSA barrel is half used up. Another few thousand and I'm going to have to learn to change it (buying tools and a barrel out of cash I've saved using steel. :) )
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Tapco armorer's wrench for $30-$40 and a cheaper barrel can be had from $60-120 . Still worth it to burn up steel, imo
 
jmccracken1214 said:
Tapco armorer's wrench for $30-$40 and a cheaper barrel can be had from $60-120 . Still worth it to burn up steel, imo
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And that test was magdumperiffic!


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The way I see it is if I can afford the ammo needed to burn up a barrel then I should be able to afford a new barrel. I typically shoot the cheapest ammo I can get my hands on.
 
I, shoot Russian surplus steel case corrosive 5.45x39 ammo through my ar. Stuff is dirty, smokes and has primers tempered by Igor mcrussian himself.


Runs fine, no issues. I clean that gun yearly also. At best.

The new stuff won't hurt your gun
 
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Jayne said:
I found it, it was in the aforementioned and maligned lucky gunner test. 5k was their number for the bi-metal rounds. If true, my PSA barrel is half used up. Another few thousand and I'm going to have to learn to change it (buying tools and a barrel out of cash I've saved using steel. :) )
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Not the way I shoot it won’t.
 
Tarowah said:
Steel cased ammo such as wolf and Tula is not steel core ammo, shooting AR500 with bi-metal ammo is not different that m193, M855 is steel core and it will put pits into AR500.

I have cut many projectiles from various steel cased ammo in half and it has been a soft lead core every time, most M80 7.62x51 ammo is bi-metal, the steel used in the jacket is a very mild and soft steel that will only cause your barrel to wear out maybe a couple of thousand rounds faster than copper jackets, in the Lucky Gunner test the steel cased barrels wore out around 8k and the brass around 10k, now keep in mind these guys were running the guns simulating full auto fire, they way most of us shoot we will get far more rounds down range before we see the barrels wear out.

In a test I helped with we ran over 1k of steel cased ammo, 1k of m193 and then 500 rounds of M855 on some AR500 target in two range sessions, the M193 and Tula left zero Divets on the targets, the M855 put small pot marks on the targets and after 500 rounds the target started to bow in the middle, these are 3/8” thick targets, the 1/2” we tested the second time around held up perfectly with the Wolf/Tula and M193, again the M855 left small pot marks but even after 1k of M855 it did now bow, after testing was complete the range director approved the use of AR500 in the short bays as long as you were not shooting M855.

Take that for what it’s worth but I have never seen wolf or Tula in .223, 7.62x39 or any handgun caliber harm an AR500 Target, .308 or 7.62x51 inside of 100 yards then yeah it’s going to jack up your stuff, but copper jacked rounds will as well.
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Ive seen bimetal through a 12.5” Sbr not do a thing to a piece of steel, then a guy shooting 55gn fmj pick up a 20” and put a hole right through same plate.
It’s like once it hits a certain velocity it goes right through.

But maybe it hit a small pit or something. But velocity makes a huge difference.
 
Damn_Yankee said:
Anything wrong with running steel case ammo? I am planning on buying a case soon and the cost difference between Wolf MC and the Fiocchi brass is about $70. I have a nickel boron BCG if that matters.
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I’ve got some Wolf 223 62gr for sale CHEAP!!


It honestly depends on the gun; some rifles handle it fine, some are picky

Seems like a couple facts about steel ammo is that it’s dirtier than brass (quality of powder?) and it may wear your extractor out sooner
 
11B CIB said:
I’ve got some Wolf 223 62gr for sale CHEAP!!


It honestly depends on the gun; some rifles handle it fine, some are picky

Seems like a couple facts about steel ammo is that it’s dirtier than brass (quality of powder?) and it may wear your extractor out sooner
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Do you deliver?[emoji6]


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Jayne said:
I found it, it was in the aforementioned and maligned lucky gunner test. 5k was their number for the bi-metal rounds. If true, my PSA barrel is half used up. Another few thousand and I'm going to have to learn to change it (buying tools and a barrel out of cash I've saved using steel. :) )
Click to expand...


No, the barrel life is also greatly reduced by HEAT. You haven’t mag dumped the entire round count so far in 1-3 hours. I bet your barrel will see 15k with your current schedule or more
 
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I shoot tons of steel case ammo but it is 7.62 x 39. 1 stuck case was enough for me to never buy steel 556 ammo again. Especially since I can reload 556 for less than the cost of steel ammo. 556 cartridges do not have enough taper to be used reliably/effectively with steel cases.
 
Except for those who have shot thousands of rounds of straight walled .223 steel cases with no issues out of the ordinary.

The stuff costs the least of any commercial ammo, match grade results aren’t to be expected.


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I just ran a test this weekend with Golden Bear 62gr HP; it’s brass plated steel .223 ammo. Was a LITTLE on the soft shooting side and shot comparably to 62gr M855 “green tip” in terms of accuracy/group sizes

Occasionally this can be had at a decent price so this is definitely worth it to grab
 
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