Sub2000 Sight Hack

Flashpoint

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If you've ever owned a KelTec Sub2000, you know the biggest gripe about these guns is how low you have to get down on the stock/buffer tube for a sight picture. It's almost impossible with muffs on.

A company that makes accessories for the Sub2k makes a nice metal taller rear sight designed to alleviate this, as well as give a more open, faster acquisition type sight picture. They say the higher rear sight works within the adjustment range of the front sight, so all is good. So I was looking at these and noticed something. Below is a screen cap I marked up from their instalation video comparing the two styles they offer next to the stock sight on the right.

This is what the two sight styles are designed to do:

1. Taller more open Peep - More accessible/comfortable sight height, faster target acquisition & better SA than the small diameter stock peep. IMO this actually makes sense, this rifle and caliber's accuracy would not suffer with a slight reduction in precision of the sighting system, PCCs aren't that accurate to begin with.

2. Taller Open notch Sight - The idea is to give an even higher more comfortable sight height and even better SA, etc. but IMO missed the mark on the latter. They say in the video that you don't use the open sight conventionally as in lining up the top of the front sight post with the rear ears. No, you center the top of the front sight post in the notch vertically. I expect that that is because the front sight tops out and won't adjust high enough to be level with the ears. So why did thay make it that high? They could have made it a lttle lower and it would be a conventional sight picture with better SA/visibility because ears wouldn't be sticking up on both sides of the target. One guy in the comments of the video says he got the open notch version and filed it down until he could use a conventional sight picture and it works great.

So.... In the pic below you can see the relative heights of the center of the sight picture in the different sights. I liked the idea of the open notch sight and was about to pull the trigger on one (and these things are not cheap!) when I had a thought, played the vid back until he was showing all 3 sights and sure enough the top of the stock sight is perfectly placed to cut a notch into. Just lop the top of it off along the dotted line and cut a notch down to the countersink, that will leave the ears the right height to be level with the top of the front sight post. Voila, a better solution than what was offered, and cost $.0

What am I missing? Besides the difference between fancy aftermarket bling and a most likely much less professional looking but possibly more functional solution.

mcarbo sight.hackJPG.jpg

 
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Verrrrry interestink!!!!

So, have you cut the notch?

What will / did you use to make the cut?

We own two SUB’s (Gen 1 in Glock 23 mag .40 and Gen 2 in Glock 19 mag 9mm) and on my ToDo list for getting around the crappy sights (as well as their intended use as low / no light options) is mounting a white light w laser on each. As well as red dots …. So far I tried the Tacticon Firefly V2 light/laser combo at 6 o’ clock under the muzzle but, ran out of elevation …https://tacticon.com/product-category/flashlight/

I also need to swap out the sh*tty OEM triggers and trigger guard levers for the MCARBO aluminum versions but, I keep missing the semi annual MCARBO holiday sales events … (you’re right, stuff ain’t cheap)
 
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Getting down low enough to see the sights was always a problem for me on the Sub2K. I love the fold up capability, magazine capacity, and simplicity, just not the sight picture. @Flashpoint if you alter your sight, please let us know how you did it and how it worked out.
 
I haven't cut it yet. First thought is a dremel, but those melt more than cut polymer. Not sure what to use yet, might still be the dremel. Worst case is I screw it up and go ahead and order the Mcarbo anyway, or a stock replacement from KT.

This will be my 4th Sub2k, I have a problem holding on to them, or any gun for that matter. I've tried factory and aftermarket rails, etc. and always come back to appreciating keeping the Sub2k as simple and as stock as possible. It's simplicity, light weight, compactness and fast transition from folded to on target are its best features.

The only way I would put an optic on the Sub2k would be a RDS that I would keep on the bottom rail while folded and move to the top when I wanted to use it. That way nothing is sticking up out of the plane of the rest of the folded gun like with the complicated Mcarbo mount, and you are good to go immediately with the "irons" until if/when you decide to move the RDS up top. I did this and it held zero well enough for what it is.

Not sure why you wouldn't have had good success with zeroing the laser, I'd try another one if that's what you want.
 
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I made the cut but wish I had more vertical walls. I'm not the best dremel driver out there. I may sharpen up the walls and cut a little deeper with a hobby knife. I raised the front sight to the level I believe will work but don't know til I shoot it. I could only get a pic with my phone behind the gun zoomed in, so in practice with my eye about 6" from the rear sight the notch is a good bit wider, almost as wide as the front sight ears and blurry at least to my eyes. The net effect is a blurry U, kind of like an out of focus semicircle with an open top.

The peep sight was good in that so long as you could see the front sight though the little hole you were good, it didn't matter that the sight itself was too blurry to see with my eye that close. A notch sight works differently, now I have to line up parts of the blurry rear sight with parts of the front sight. It's just different and not really a problem, but worthy of note. I think I do get a better view of what is going on around the target with the open sight though.

It won't win any bling points, but if it works and if I like it I may try some other designs. I bet I could order a couple of stock rear sights from KT to play with for half of what one of the Mcarbo ones cost.

Oh yeah, the net gain in sight/face height is about 4-5mm I believe, which doesn't sound like much but it is noticable in a good way. It helps but IMO doesn't solve the issue completely, I think some people will still find it uncomfortable.

20220220_131720r.jpg

20220220_132021r.jpg
 
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I have a Romeo 5 mounted on a Holosun QD mount on mine. Haven't tried live fire yet but it seems to hold zero after many times taken on and off. I used a laser to confirm the return to zero.

t4YcEEt.jpg
 
That's
I have a Romeo 5 mounted on a Holosun QD mount on mine. Haven't tried live fire yet but it seems to hold zero after many times taken on and off. I used a laser to confirm the return to zero.

t4YcEEt.jpg
This is exactly what I did. I even have the same laser mounted.

You been in my closet?


I always assumed the Sub 2k was meant to hold at a 45 degree angle to use the sights.
 
That's

This is exactly what I did. I even have the same laser mounted.

You been in my closet?


I always assumed the Sub 2k was meant to hold at a 45 degree angle to use the sights.
How's your setup holding zero with live fire?
 
I have a Romeo 5 mounted on a Holosun QD mount on mine. Haven't tried live fire yet but it seems to hold zero after many times taken on and off. I used a laser to confirm the return to zero.

t4YcEEt.jpg
I have done that as well but I would keep it on the bottom rail when folded. It looks like your's is occupied. :)
 
I have a Romeo 5 mounted on a Holosun QD mount on mine. Haven't tried live fire yet but it seems to hold zero after many times taken on and off. I used a laser to confirm the return to zero.

t4YcEEt.jpg
What laser are you using?
 
I'm looking to put a green laser on the bottom of one of my Sub 2000's and welcome any recommendations.
 
It is a cheap Sig branded laser meant for a pistol.
So you have to reach up and turn it on. Does it stay on or do you have to maintain pressure on the switch? Thanks.
 
So you have to reach up and turn it on. Does it stay on or do you have to maintain pressure on the switch? Thanks.
No fancy pressure pad. Reach to turn on/off. Like I said, it was there to verify red dot sight zero, not meant to stay. It's already taken off.
 
So I had a chance to shoot the sub2000 yesterday after making the notch in the top of the rear sight. The most significant thing of note is as I mentioned above the rear sight is so close it's completely out of focus so there is no way to center the front sight in the notch perfectly, no hard lines to line up with. It takes some getting used to but is really not bad, mine is not accurate enough to make that an issue, I just center it in the fuzz and it works. With the original small diameter peep on the stock sight you're not trying to line up anything, just so long as you're looking through the little hole all it takes is putting the front sight on the target. This may be why the open sight upgrade version they make is oversized so you center the top of the front sight vertically, treating it more like a square peep sight.

The other significant issue is that my front sight will not raise high enough. I've raised it as high as I can and still have the little push button thing fully engaged, and it's shooting a couple of inches high at 25 yards. Not an issue for me. Sometimes I will even sight a firearm this way, especially calibers that drop fast. Easier to hold under and still see your target than to hold over and have your target obscured by the front sight.

Lastly, the goal of this whole thing is to resolve the issue of having to get your face so low on the buffer tube. This helps significantly, but does not completely resolve the issue. My muffs still contacted the stock but not nearly as bad.
 
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