The revolver in defense

BudE

Hillsborough, NC
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I've come to think of a revolver such as a five shot airweight J-frame as the equivalent of a derringer in times past. I know a fellow that has a Smith 442 Pro. This is the kind that takes clips. (Please don't tell me that semi-autos take clips) He has a set of Barami grips on it' These are the grips that allow you to slip the resolver into your trousers and the lip on the right grip keeps the revolver from slipping. He keeps two speedloaders as backup. Keeps 158 gr lead semi-wadcutters in the revolver and the speed loaders. These pack a pretty good punch. Ended the Miami shootout. The clips on a small 38 are good to keep in the revolver but inserting clips in a small J-frame is nowhere near the same as a 45acp into a 1917 or 625, The speedloaders are much easier on a reload. Very concealable and has a moderate punch. While I've seen him punch holes in a QIT 99 target at fifty yards, this is really a defensive handgun.
 
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BudE, I carried 2 Js for a decade. Never felt undergunned or undermanned. I do like what Clint Smith says about them....These are guns for Experts. They are for arms length and at most the length of a car.
I have some 200 grain Cast Performance loads that will do 800 fps out of these guns. They are Full Business Loads.

Many years ago Jeff Cooper wrote that he had some 160 grainers that would do 1,000 fps out of a 2 inch model 60.
A man wrote in to tell him that load could cause damage to his gun. Jeff's reply has become my answer about heavy loads hurting my PD handgun. Jeff said.....Sir, that was not a consideration.
 
Like BoB, I have a 642 that I carry at times. I feel it is perfectly acceptable for a self defense scenario. Statistically most self defense shootings are within 5-10 feet and are over after 1-3 rounds.

That said, I would never recommend a 5 shot j frame to be an ideal carry choice for most people. In my limited experience they are more difficult to shoot accurately, and much slower to reload...especially under an adrenaline dumped mind set.
 
Just in from working out in the yard and at the street...442 on my hip. Everybody that knows me agrees Iā€™m a pretty lousy shot. But, I figure if the threat is close enough that I canā€™t turn and run, Iā€™ll probably hit it. :cool:
 
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The 642 offers options that you can't even consider in a semi-auto. Ever shoot through a coat pocket? You would only get one shot with the semi-auto. You get four more with the 642.

I am a firm believer that your concealed carry arsenal should be like a set of golf clubs. Custom fit for each social situation you will encounter. Small deep concealment pieces to social uprisings. LCP's, 642, 637, G19, G22, AR pistol, AR10 and plenty of magazines.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
 
BudE, I carried 2 Js for a decade. Never felt undergunned or undermanned. I do like what Clint Smith says about them....These are guns for Experts. They are for arms length and at most the length of a car.
I have some 200 grain Cast Performance loads that will do 800 fps out of these guns. They are Full Business Loads.

Many years ago Jeff Cooper wrote that he had some 160 grainers that would do 1,000 fps out of a 2 inch model 60.
A man wrote in to tell him that load could cause damage to his gun. Jeff's reply has become my answer about heavy loads hurting my PD handgun. Jeff said.....Sir, that was not a consideration.
I think you've had dealings with the fellow in my post.
 
Nine times outa ten, when I leave the house, there's a J-frame 342 in a Wild Bill's pocket holster in my right pants pocket and a speed loader or two in my left pants pocket. Especially on a day like today when I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I'm so used to carrying it that I'll grab it and slip it in my pocket even if I'm carrying my Glock 26 on my hip.
 
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Nine times outage ten, when I leave the house, there's a J-frame 342 in a Wild Bill's pocket holster in my right pants pocket and a speed loader or two in my left pants pocket. Especially on a day like today when I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I'm so used to carrying it that I'll grab it and slip it in my pocket even if I'm carrying my Glock 26 on my hip.

wild billā€™s is good stuff, retired LEO too. Keep my 642 in one of his pocket holsters too
 
I carried a 2.25" Ruger SP101 5-shot in my pocket (in a Kramer) for years in my prime. I never felt that I lacked 'firepower'. With full-up LE .357 magnum loads, that sucker would kill people with the fireball and the concussion ring alone! I never felt undergunned!
 
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Most days, at work, in my office there's a J-frame 637-2 in the drawer beside me that travels with me almost everywhere. I shoot it pretty well when I'm not on the Wizard clock :D
My personal goal is to beat that Bastard Wizard with a J Frame.
 
I expect All guns to work. So I'm not talking about a firearm malfunction. The single thing we have No control over is the ignition of our ammo. My fellow shooters say a simple Tap-Rack-Bang will solve the problem. I tell them my solution does away with Tap-Rack and goes straight to Bang..with just a trigger pull.
I had and have correspondence with Evan Marshall. He wrote two books on Stopping Power. I have a letter in the Gun Room from him written on Detroit PD stationary. It is from back in the 1900s...mid 80s I believe. He says in that letter.....If you never learn but One thing from me let it be this...if when you are leaving home, and in the farthest recess of your mind you think "I might need a gun before I come back"......take TWO. I have taken this great man killer's advice. People may scoff at you or say you are paranoid...my answer is always the same....we must all seek our own salvation.
I like Double Action revolvers....I carry as a primary a Sig 365. Right front pocket...left front pocket, usually some sort of a J Frame.
We must all seek our own salvation.
 
Nine times outage ten, when I leave the house, there's a J-frame 342 in a Wild Bill's pocket holster in my right pants pocket and a speed loader or two in my left pants pocket. Especially on a day like today when I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I'm so used to carrying it that I'll grab it and slip it in my pocket even if I'm carrying my Glock 26 on my hip.
+1 for Wild Bills. My last LEO type job I carried a model 60 in a Wild bills paddle holster, It kind of wanted to tip out from my waist, mostly due to my gut, and I got him to relocate the paddle higher to give it more drop. Worked perfect for me.
 
I carried a J-frame for a while when I lived in Alabama and made one of my most memorable and productive shots with it. I was teaching at a private school at the time and was out hunting with several of my students at a farm one of their parents owned. The owner's son was driving us around in his Jeep when he spotted a feral cat out in a cotton field. He said he had been trying to get rid of all the feral cats on the place. I told him to stop the Jeep. I jumped out, pulled out my J-frame, and took one shot at the cat running away at about 50 yards. The cat rolled stone dead. That lucks shot was very productive because it so impressed the students that I never again had any discipline problems with them or with the members of the football team I was coaching.

I still have several J-frames and occasionally carry one when I am not carrying a 365.
 
Which one of you has actually tried firing from a jacket pocket?? Not in your dreams but reality...
Yessir, I have. Hell, I wanted to see if it was viable. On the timer I hit in the A at 5 yards in .3 sec. I certainly don't think this is useful in most cases...but I didn't want to try to do it in a OJT situation.
We do lotsa stuff here amongst ourselves so we can at least be able to give a real report of "how about this?"
 
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The gun I carry most often is an S&W airweight 38. Its lightweight and fits in my pocket, and I have no trouble keeping the shots in the black with it at typical SD distances.

Of all the things likely to happen to us, a shootout is one of the least likely. I feel like my 38 is more than enough gun for most any day to day situation.
 
The gun I carry most often is an S&W airweight 38. Its lightweight and fits in my pocket, and I have no trouble keeping the shots in the black with it at typical SD distances.

Of all the things likely to happen to us, a shootout is one of the least likely. I feel like my 38 is more than enough gun for most any day to day situation.
I have been preaching for years that if you get into something that a S&W model 10 won't get you out of...you have made some awful decisions up to then. 200 Grain Cast Performance GC at 1,200 fps out of a 4 inch gun will work IF you do your part.
 
old gun smithing teacher whose dead now had seen a lot of guns in his 50plus years on the job. He worked on guns for everyone from the police down here to the mob in Philadelphia back in the 70s. Everyone took his word when it came to firearms. When i asked him what he carried he said any j frame smith would work fine. When i asked him why only a 5 shot revolver when there were so many other options he came back with- "when you can put 5 shots in a quarter sized whole at 50yrds anytime you want to, you don't much need anything else." At least 10 of us immediately went down to the school range with our revolvers (some much bigger than a j frame) and began to blast away. Nobody could do it, not even close. He was a cool cowboy. When customers would come in with a semi auto and say it doesn't work can you fix this, he would jokingly toss it in his trash can and say "there ya go" and laugh. aside from the 1911, he was a revolver man through and through. I credit him for my love of wheelguns. He told me they make you emphasize more heavily on shot placement, bc who likes reloading:)
 
If I had a dollar for every old timer that tells me the story of the old >insert some kind of supposed qualification here< who carried a 5/6 shot wheel gun because he was convinced it was all anyone needed then I would be able to afford enough ammo, land, and range time to get good enough with a 5 shot revolver to hit a quarter sized target at 50 yards with it. In the mean time, Ill rely on the experience of law enforcement, military, private security, and personal experience to know that if I can get the job done with 5, then having 15 is just dandy as well in case the rapscallion brings along a few friends...and as was said, who likes reloading.

As BoB is fond of saying, we must all seek our own salvation. Carrying a 5 shot revolver is fine, but it isn't the epitome of self defense for everyone.
 
Which one of you has actually tried firing from a jacket pocket?? Not in your dreams but reality...
Years ago when Chuckie Taylor was editing Soldier of Fortune (might have been Combat Handguns) they did an article on pocket carry. As I recall, they tried semis and revolvers. The only firearm they could get multiple shots from was a Smith 49. Again, as I recall, they set every garment on fire. I thought the article was hilarious even though it wasn't meant to be.
I wonder if he's still alive. Had a conversation with him once that was really bizarre.
 
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I 've carried a 637 J Frame close to 20 years. Started out on my ankle and when I started riding motorcycles, just didn't feel comfortable there (looking back that was a good thing...) so I've carried it AIWB ever since. I've tried a half dozen other pistols and ALL variables considered, it checks the most boxes for me.
 
Which one of you has actually tried firing from a jacket pocket?? Not in your dreams but reality...

Who would be stupid enough to do that? Oh, yes, me.
Yes, it works, and when you fire it out of an old down jacket it looks like it's snowing from all the little feathers blowing in the wind. Really pretty.
The smell reminded me of my grandma burning the last feathers off a freshly killed chicken on the gas stove. Not pleasant.
 
Jesse P did it pretty well with a Smith and Wesson .38S&W Lemon Squeezer (couldn't tell which model)

My grandmother kept a loaded 38 S&W Lemon Sqeezer on her nightstand and was not afraid to use it. I am glad she never had to do so. My brother has that revolver now and shoots it regularly. Neat revolver.
 
, Ill rely on the experience of law enforcement, military, private security, and personal experience
I can only speak to the LE effectiveness. The Criminal Justice stats say they MISS 78% of the time. I have no military experience except for Viet Nam stats on small arms fire per casualty and that is 100s of Pounds of small arms fire per casualty. Private security and your Personal experience I can't speak to.

I do like what Clint Smith says about the matter. He has All of the experience you were writing about. He says....I have never talked to any person involved in a gun fight that said he had Too Much ammo.

So as I earnestly try not to demean anybody's opinion on such an important personal matter, I do appreciate your reminder that we must all seek our own salvation. I am glad that stuck with you. It stuck with me when I first heard it. Also, it usually moves the conversation on to other subjects.
 
Did you ever meet him?
Yes Sir! The real deal. Have you ever checked out his credentials? First 4 gun Master. Check him out on YT. I met him in 1982 at the SOF Convention in Charlotte. Hackathorn has wonderful Chuck tales.
 
642 loaded with 158 grain SWC's and riding in an old Wild Bill's pocket holster been known to be in my right front pocket more than often. :)

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M360J in my pocket right now. BUG of choice for me. I have others, but always go back to this one. I practice my draw to bring it out with the hammer back. Heavy DA, don't breathe on it cocked.
 
M360J in my pocket right now. BUG of choice for me. I have others, but always go back to this one. I practice my draw to bring it out with the hammer back. Heavy DA, don't breathe on it cocked.

Why not just use DA?
Just curious.
 
I just retired a Ruger Security Six from bedside table duty after 30 years. Was taking a nap one afternoon and thought for sure somebody was in the house that was not invited. Cleared the house with the SS. Shoot 1911's so much, the Six felt alien in my hand. I've also got a SP101 with a Hogue grip that I take on overnight road trips for a bedside table gun. It fits my hand like an old glove. Its a keeper. The SS may have to go.
 
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