The thing about VARIABLES

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I'm gonna try and make this make sense, but I hope it stimulates some interesting dialogue along the way: A while back, I sold my little KelTec .32. A very light, thin, compact .32. Along the way, I have since purchased a little Beretta Tomcat, also in .32. Not nearly as light and not nearly as thin as the KT. Which sort of got me to thinking about asking the question: What is the most "efficient" size/weight/caliber out there? That then got me to thinking: "Light" and "Thin" are subjective. What is "Light" to Hulk Hogan is not "Light" to "Betty White" for example. Not sure where this exactly gets us, but I think you all get the point. What is the most weight/size/caliber efficient EDC you can think of? Is it the Airweight Smiths, the little KT .32, maybe its the little Colt I have posted in BST, or the little Savage, or..............? What say thee purveyors of this forum?
 
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you guys talking about a BB and .32 got me thinking
1621560868451.png 81bb
that thing reminds me of those old toy guns that shot the little yellow rubber bbs.

I still rock the walther pps m1 in 9mm with 124gr jhp. I couldn't make it cycle fast reliably with 147s. I put it in a stealthgear IWB holster and go ahead and crawl around under the car, ride the mower, etc. I'm just waaaaaiting to see their entry into the micro 9 double stack market.
 
I generally carry a Sig 365 with XL upper and lower original with smaller grip. On certain occasions I do carry a LCP II in 380, due to the thin profile of the LCP II. I was originally looking for a Kel-tec 32ACP on gunbroker, but the price was ridiculous so I ended up getting the LCP II.
 
88Mustang said:
I generally carry a Sig 365 with XL upper and lower original with smaller grip. On certain occasions I do carry a LCP II in 380, due to the thin profile of the LCP II. I was originally looking for a Kel-tec 32ACP on gunbroker, but the price was ridiculous so I ended up getting the LCP II.
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Still can't quite remember why I ditched the KT .32??????????? The Tomcat is cool and has a threaded barrel, but way to heavy for a .32!
 
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I don’t get the entire light weight gun thing. Ok, I kinda do, but only a little. Concealability issues matter since we all have different jobs, clothes, builds etc. A big gun for me is not a big deal for a guy 6’5” and 300 lbs. And it seems that for most people the heavier the gun the less felt recoil and the quicker the follow up shots. So for most situations weight is a non issue for me. I want the biggest, heaviest gun I can conceal.

All that being said when I hike the hill here in the mountains I do notice a difference between my HK45c and my HKP30 sk. Those are the 2 I normally carry on those hikes. But that‘s up and down steep hills. In day to day carry a heavy gun doesn’t matter to me at all. Maybe it will when I am 60, 70 or 80, but for now I don’t get the fixation on weight.

IMO bigger, heavier and more pew pew are all good. I’ve got a couple Beretta‘s and some 18 round mags that feel pretty good to me. If they don’t need to be hidden they are a great option.
 
CZfool68 said:
I don’t get the entire light weight gun thing. Ok, I kinda do, but only a little. Concealability issues matter since we all have different jobs, clothes, builds etc. A big gun for me is not a big deal for a guy 6’5” and 300 lbs. And it seems that for most people the heavier the gun the less felt recoil and the quicker the follow up shots. So for most situations weight is a non issue for me. I want the biggest, heaviest gun I can conceal.

All that being said when I hike the hill here in the mountains I do notice a difference between my HK45c and my HKP30 sk. Those are the 2 I normally carry on those hikes. But that‘s up and down steep hills. In day to day carry a heavy gun doesn’t matter to me at all. Maybe it will when I am 60, 70 or 80, but for now I don’t get the fixation on weight.

IMO bigger, heavier and more pew pew are all good. I’ve got a couple Beretta‘s and some 18 round mags that feel pretty good to me. If they don’t need to be hidden they are a great option.
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Thanks but no fixation on weight was intended in the initial post. Was just really wondering........... well, you know.
 
Back when I started carrying in the mid-1990s if one wanted a "pocket" gun the two basic choices were small .380s like the Colt Mustang (which wasn't ideal being single-action), the Walther PPK, and similar sized guns or J-frame .38 Special revolvers. None of the small .380s were anything even close to the reliability of a J-frame. Then there was cartridge effectiveness. In terms of "power" the .380 ACP and .38 Special are pretty close. However, the .380 is marginal at best when it comes to getting both sufficient penetration and expansion. The .38 Special is much better at getting both penetration and expansion and also has a much wider variety of ammunition available to it.

Back when I started carrying my go-to pocket gun was a S&W 442 in nickel loaded with standard pressure 125 grain Federal Nyclad HPs. Interestingly enough, that hasn't really changed. Unfortunately I don't have that particular 442 anymore but my usual pocket gun now is a S&W 442-1 loaded with Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWC standard pressure ammunition. My spare ammunition is either Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P or Winchester Ranger 130 grain +P. I use that ammunition for reloads rather than the Buffalo Bore because the lead bullets are extremely soft and deform easily outside the chambers. Additionally, the profile of the JHP ammo is much easier to load into the chambers quickly. Well, quickly for a revolver reload with speed strips.

That said, and as much as I like small revolvers, I think the most size efficient guns on the market today are the "Micro 9s" like the Springfield Hellcat, SIG P365, Ruger MAX-9, etc. They hold twice as much (or more) ammunition than a .38 Special and can generate enough "power" to both penetrate and expand sufficiently. They also tend to have better sights, better triggers, and better ergonomics than small revolvers.

Here are a couple of examples:

Ruger LCR .38 Special compared to a Springfield Hellcat 9mm. The Springfield holds 12 rounds in this configuration and is smaller than the LCR (the LCR with the stock compact Hogue grip is about the same size as the Hellcat) The LCR weighs slightly less:

38 LCR vs Hellcat.jpeg

Here is a 3" .357 LCR vs. a Hellcat RDP. The Hellcat is smaller despite holding 14 rounds and having both a comp and a red dot. Granted the LCR is a .357 but it is basically the same size as the .38 Special 3" LCR. Again, the LCR weighs slightly less.

357 LCR vs Hellcat RDP.jpeg

The .38 Special still has the advantage in ammunition versatility, especially for handloaders. I have some .38 Special I handloaded in my safe room that has 200 grain LSWC bullets. Try finding a 200 grain 9mm and making it function.

In general I think the small .38 Special revolver (or these days .327 Federal, .357 Magnum, or 9x19mm revolver) still has major advantages for pocket carry. Their profile is better suited to drawing from a pocket, they are more tolerant of things like lint, and they tend to be slightly lighter in weight. I still carry revolvers when I pocket carry but for overall efficiency I think the 9mm pistols win.
 
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Landric said:
Back when I started carrying in the mid-1990s if one wanted a "pocket" gun the two basic choices were small .380s like the Colt Mustang (which wasn't ideal being single-action), the Walther PPK, and similar sized guns or J-frame .38 Special revolvers. None of the small .380s were anything even close to the reliability of a J-frame. Then there was cartridge effectiveness. In terms of "power" the .380 ACP and .38 Special are pretty close. However, the .380 is marginal at best when it comes to getting both sufficient penetration and expansion. The .38 Special is much better at getting both penetration and expansion and also has a much wider variety of ammunition available to it.

Back when I started carrying my go-to pocket gun was a S&W 442 in nickel loaded with standard pressure 125 grain Federal Nyclad HPs. Interestingly enough, that hasn't really changed. Unfortunately I don't have that particular 442 anymore but my usual pocket gun now is a S&W 442-1 loaded with Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWC standard pressure ammunition. My spare ammunition is either Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P or Winchester Ranger 130 grain +P. I use that ammunition for reloads rather than the Buffalo Bore because the lead bullets are extremely soft and deform easily outside the chambers. Additionally, the profile of the JHP ammo is much easier to load into the chambers quickly. Well, quickly for a revolver reload with speed strips.

That said, and as much as I like small revolvers, I think the most size efficient guns on the market today are the "Micro 9s" like the Springfield Hellcat, SIG P365, Ruger MAX-9, etc. They hold twice as much (or more) ammunition than a .38 Special and can generate enough "power" to both penetrate and expand sufficiently. They also tend to have been sights, better triggers, and better ergonomics than small revolvers.

Here are a couple of examples:

Ruger LCR .38 Special compared to a Springfield Hellcat 9mm. The Springfield holds 12 rounds in this configuration and is smaller than the LCR (the LCR with the stock compact Hogue grip is about the same size as the Hellcat):

View attachment 335979

Here is a 3" .357 LCR vs. a Hellcat RDP. The Hellcat is smaller despite holding 14 rounds and having both a comp and a red dot. Granted the LCR is a .357 but it is basically the same size as the .38 Special 3" LCR.

View attachment 335980

The .38 Special still has the advantage in ammunition versatility, especially for handloaders. I have some .38 Special I handloaded in my safe room that has 200 grain LSWC bullets. Try finding a 200 grain 9mm and making it function.

In general I think the small .38 Special revolver (or these days .327 Federal, .357 Magnum, or 9x19mm revolver) still has major advantages for pocket carry. Their profile is better suited to drawing from a pocket, they are more tolerant of things like lint, and they tend to be slightly lighter in weight. I still carry revolvers when I pocket carry but for overall efficiency I think the 9mm pistols win.
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Yep! I recently fitted my 642 with a titanium cylinder. Not sure if it is quite as light as my 432PD - but more horsepower and a whole lot easier to replace if something were to go sideways!
 
Size efficient?

I’d say the CZ P01, PCR, Walther PPQ, Glock 19 size and capacity is about ideal. Concealable and holds good capacity. There is a reason so many carry that size gun. And they are large enough to make some longer distance shots and handle some recoil.

Then again a 45acp makes a bigger hole so some times that may be the most efficient tool.
 
Glock 19 is my perfect handgun. Good capacity, can take 33 round magazines and pleasant to shoot.

Hellcats are light and hold a lot of rounds, but don't seem super pleasant to shoot. On the other hand, I can put 500 rounds through a 19 in a range season and not have shaky hands.
 
I just turned 60. And have carried/shot 45s for decades. These days, with arthritis flaring up and old injuries hurting when the weather changes, as well as weight gain, I am getting more comfortable with small 9mm carry guns.

But having worked Robbery/Homicide investigations for 20 years, capacity is not a concern or a factor for me. My preferred carry gun is a 3913 series pistol. I have used them as off duty/Court guns, BUGs and for a short time shot IDPA games with a 3913.

The width, length, 28oz loaded weight, reliability and accuracy - in my hands, just hits the sweet spot, for me. And I prefer 9 rounds of 147 grain 9mm to 5 or 6 38s.

There are still days I carry a 43oz steel 45 pistol. And days I carry a 31oz aluminum framed 45. And I feel more "comfortable" when I do. But a majority of the time you will find me with either a 3913 or 3914 on my belt.

9mm is as low as I will go. And I don't do plastic striker fired guns. I don't care for those. Regards 18DAI
 
I switch back and forth from a G43 to a P938. I shoot the P938 better. The G43 carries better. Kind of depends on how I feel and where I'm going. I still haven't gotten a tiny micro 9 double stack, but the new Shield looks like it might be worthy.
 
I am happy with the size/weight of my G42 and G43.

I still carry the 42 most. Fabulous carry gun.
 
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