Things we can learn from what’s happening in Texas

Diablos said:
every homeowner needs to know where their water main is, i guess the alternative is dealing with cascade falls in their kitchen
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Don't disagree. I've got a city water key by the door. But having dealt with my new homeowner neighbors, nobody is teaching the basics. Turns out I'm a much better exterminator than the clown they paid for 3 months that did nothing for them. And that's not the only thing I've ended up trying to teach them to do. Heck, I learned most of what I know after moving into the house.
 
Me. said:
I don't think "trying to keep my family safe" and "bring the propane tank inside" go hand in hand.

A line leak can leave you all dead, instead of cold.


Just be cold a few days. It's not that hard. Northern homeless do it every day. Are they really smarter and tougher than us?
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Smarter, depends on your metric. Tougher, well yes. People acclimate to their environment. We see it at work. Take a guy out of SC in the winter and put him running WV or VA for a week and they will probable get sick. Run them back and forth to both and you can about guarantee it.

We tend to not run the heat overnight, or just run it sporadically for that reason. Not sure running a line out a window and heating a house go hand in hand either. Tough times make for tough choices. But I'm not going to let someone's perception of what the state wants or tells us to do be what I make a decision on in an emergency. It has nearly no bearing unless I see it as a bad idea in my situation. Then it's the situation driving the decision, not the state.
 
I have a well and septic, so when the power is out, no water. After we built the house, I cut the power supply line under the well cover and installed a plug and outlet. I made sure to match the 220 volt plug to match the 220 volt outlet on my generator. The plug stays plugged into the outlet unless the power goes out and I can plug the well into the generator and fill all the water tanks for the livestock and also fill up buckets or the bath tubs in the house. Then dip this water into the toilet tank to continue to have flush toilets.

I also just installed a CO detector in the house, so if we resort to using the propane or kerosene heaters.
 
Me. said:
My concern would be a leaking fitting/CO poisoning.

But I guess you could get that with a hose, too.
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Depends on who is hooking up a tank and heater. If you bring in a heater and don’t soap bubble check the connections then you missed a safety check. I would have no issue with a tank inside.

I searched a solid year every couple weeks for a 60,000 btu Ridged job heater that runs off their lithium batteries. I checked from Canada to Mexico before a rep online gave me a text when 104 would hit the market. I bought two but one broke one the first job. I’ll bast inside to give short term heat ups. I have 7 batteries but it can also be plugged in. Bought two Mr Heaters today for Wednesday pick up. If you have CO detectors the risk diminish greatly.
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There is a long wait on home Generac generators. Took 4 months for the latest one of 20kW. You would think a guy who occasionally installs them would have one but $7500 outside of my labor is a chunk of money and I have no plan of staying in this house more than three years. I need to downsize.
 
Ferrisfan said:
You can get 20-30 toilet flushes from the amount of water that fits in your bathtub.

You can buy a soft bladder that fits in your tub if you want to use that space for drinking water.

An oil burning hurricane lantern kept my master bath 10F warmer than my bedroom, and kept my half-bath 25F warmer than my hallway.
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Yeah I've got a couple of those lanterns and if power goes out longer term here, my plan is to sleep in the closed bathroom with one going for heat. It's a lot easier to heat that smallest room.
 
two fingers said:
That's actually a very good question.
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I think that was answered above: Slab-built houses in an area where things "don't freeze", and it's easier to run it above the ceiling than layout and stub water piping below before pouring a concrete slab. The "right way" to do things is to have plumbing below the first floor joists above a basement or crawlspace with any plumbing needed for 2nd (or more) floors going straight up through vertical pipe-chases located more interior to the house. Less likely to freeze and if there is a leak, it goes straight down through the pipe-chase.
 
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"Some pickup truck owners in Texas have been able to ride out winter storm power outages in comfort thanks to built-in generators in their vehicles.


Ford’s 2021 F-150 trucks have the “Pro Power Onboard” feature available, generating 2, 2.4 or 7.2 kilowatts depending on the engine.

Randy Jones was one of the millions of Texans who lost power this week. A resident of Katy in suburban Houston, he had ordered a new F-150 back in November in part because he wanted the onboard generator, and he just received the truck on Feb. 6.

“It came in just in time,” he said."


https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-trucks-generators-texas-homes-winter-storm-power-outages

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since kerosene was mentioned....4 local gas stations do not carry kerosene anymore.
they "used to", and those places were where we got ours last time we lost power in the winter (they replaced kerosene with another diesel pump). sooo...my advice...
if you need kerosene, be sure to find/get yours way ahead of time.
 
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premise said:
I've watched a few TX happening compilation videos, and these houses with ceilings collapsing... Do people not know to shut the water off at the valve and open a few lines to keep the pressure down?
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The answer is unfortunately no. I saw someone else ask "do people not know how to drain their water lines?" and my immediate answer was "no - no idea what you're talking about." Now that I've read more of the thread I understand now how you could turn off the main line and then run some the sinks/showers/etc until everything's gone, but it would've never occurred to me to do that in this kind of situation. I'm only speaking for my generation here (I'm an older millenial) but many of us were raised in the suburbs and never expected to learn how to do anything. Childhood of video games. You can blame us for not knowing, I guess, but should also blame our parents (or maybe their parents?).
 
JimB said:
I have one and a couple tanks. Have never known how much CO these things generate. The modern home is pretty tightly sealed, so I’d be cautious if I had to use it. Also used to camp in sub-zero weather in a tent, a week of cold with no electricity in a home is gonna be easily survivable by most everyone, just gotta deal with the infirm and the babies/toddlers.
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There's a youtube video were a guy runs one of the Mr heaters all night on high monitored by a.video camera in a small camper to see if it's safe for use and it.never sets of the co2 detector.
After that he started using it on a.regular bases to keep.warm.
 
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jrico59 said:
The answer is unfortunately no. I saw someone else ask "do people not know how to drain their water lines?" and my immediate answer was "no - no idea what you're talking about." Now that I've read more of the thread I understand now how you could turn off the main line and then run some the sinks/showers/etc until everything's gone, but it would've never occurred to me to do that in this kind of situation. I'm only speaking for my generation here (I'm an older millenial) but many of us were raised in the suburbs and never expected to learn how to do anything. Childhood of video games. You can blame us for not knowing, I guess, but should also blame our parents (or maybe their parents?).
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A damn shame...

It's amazing how little self sufficiency each subsequent generation has.
 
Me. said:
Self-sufficiency is the enemy of society and human advancement.

Whenever humans clump together, they reduce their self-sufficiency for the benefit of all.

Even within a household, self-sufficiency would limit the happiness and quality of life for all.


No one is “self sufficient” and also useful to society. Self-sufficiency is useful to only the most selfish, or the lost and remote.




Anyone who believes they are self sufficient quickly changes their mind when they need medication.
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So by being able to clip my own toenails, I'm being selfish?

Your argument needs a lot of clarifers and caveats to not be the dumbest damn thing I've ever read on this forum. I generally like your style, but this is a Biden level statement.
 
Putting out a fire in the garage with an extinguisher? Selfish.
Performing CPR if you aren't a medical professional? Selfish.
Draining your water lines so your ceiling doesn't collapse? Selfish.
Cutting your own grass? Selfish.
Cooking your own meal? Selfish.
Giving your wife a massage? Selfish.
Growing your own mint in the windowsill? Selfish.
Configuring your own budget? Selfish.
Stringing your own guitar? Selfish.
Replacing your own hot water heater elements? Selfish.

Humans clumping together is the height of society, which is why we picture clueless apartment dwellers and inner city ghettos when we think of the greatest producers in this country.

🥴
 
Me. said:
Self-sufficiency is the enemy of society and human advancement.

Whenever humans clump together, they reduce their self-sufficiency for the benefit of all.

Even within a household, self-sufficiency would limit the happiness and quality of life for all.


No one is “self sufficient” and also useful to society. Self-sufficiency is useful to only the most selfish, or the lost and remote.




Anyone who believes they are self sufficient quickly changes their mind when they need medication.
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I was self-employed for many years. Your statement harkens back to something Obama said about “I didn’t build that."

Well he sure as hell didn’t build it for me.
 
Me. said:
Premise, your examples confuse “capability” with “self-sufficient”.

We cut our grass with machines made by many other people. We plant the grass with seeds grown far from our lawn.

Budget? Self-sufficient have no money and no trade. Guitar string? Can you make a guitar string? Water heater element? No such thing in the world of the self-sufficient.
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Me. said:
In even the most remote places, society has leaned hard on individual roles over “do everything”.

When a ship landed in America and a colony was set up, people worked cooperatively and benefitted each other. As the colony grows, you end up with a butcher, a farmer, a blacksmith, etc.

Specialization reduces self-sufficiency, but benefits society.

As for the “truly self-sufficient”, they are useless to society, and do not move the species forward in any meaningful way.

No one in America can mine ore, smelt it, and make a TV. Or penicillin.


We are surrounded by success stories of “society over self-sufficiency”, and only rarely hit with situations where being able to handle-everything is valued. And even those uncommon situations are fleeting.
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Because I was obviously speaking in absolutes when I made that statement.

In colonial times, folks were largely self sufficient while offering a service in trade.

Owning a house requires a level of self-sufficiency in order to maintain the domicile. Are you honestly going to tell me somebody is better off letting their house collapse because it is cold outside?
 
Me. said:
Self-employed is a far cry from self sufficient.

Where do you get the money? From people who pay you for your specialized skill. You then take that money and give it to them to benefit from their output.
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I sat down with nothing but a telephone and a computer, and before computers, just a telephone, and created wealth out of thin air.
 
Me. said:
Self-sufficiency is the enemy of society and human advancement.

Whenever humans clump together, they reduce their self-sufficiency for the benefit of all.

Even within a household, self-sufficiency would limit the happiness and quality of life for all.


No one is “self sufficient” and also useful to society. Self-sufficiency is useful to only the most selfish, or the lost and remote.




Anyone who believes they are self sufficient quickly changes their mind when they need medication.
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straw man. Nobody’s saying that self sufficiency means being able to do LITERALLY EVERY POSSIBLE ACT MAN IS CAPABLE OF. It means not rolling over and dying because the niceties of the second half of the 20th century were temporarily unavailable
 
jrico59 said:
straw man. Nobody’s saying that self sufficiency means being able to do LITERALLY EVERY POSSIBLE ACT MAN IS CAPABLE OF. It means not rolling over and dying because the niceties of the second half of the 20th century were temporarily unavailable
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Excellent illustration. I said I was exiting the discussion, but a certain poster poked me with a sharp enough stick that I will reply.

Both sides of my family had to leave Europe due to religious persecution from the same country hundreds of years ago.

One group arrived on the coast of SC, and the other on the coast of NC in 1690 and 1720 respectively.

If buying land, a mule, a plow, and an axe when they got off the boat disqualifies them from being self-sufficient then further discussion is pointless.

Sort of like my claim of creating wealth with nothing more than a telephone.
 
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GooGoo said:
Excellent illustration. I said I was exiting the discussion, but a certain poster poked me with a sharp enough stick that I will reply.

Both sides of my family had to leave Europe due to religious persecution from the same country hundreds of years ago.

One group arrived on the coast of SC, and the other on the coast of NC in 1690 and 1720 respectively.

If buying land, a mule, a plow, and an axe when they got off the boat disqualifies them from being self-sufficient then further discussion is pointless.

Sort of like my claim of creating wealth with nothing more than a telephone.
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Yeah seems like pointlessly arguing about a particular word. In The context of this thread it’s obvious what is meant.
 
My brother lives outside of Fort Worth. He said the press is over-hyping this. Most of the problems seem to be around Houston. He lost power for a couple short periods, but that was it. No mass issues in his area. Sounds like the changes they made to their natural gas delivery lines and the wind power were the major culprits. Live and learn.
 
It's great to have community and we all benefit from the diversity of skills within. It all starts with the individual though and the more knowledgeable the more we have to offer. Self sufficiency is the core and I see no negatives to being able to do many things as it just adds to our overall Intelligence. Smart is always better!
Rooster
 
premise said:
Also, a little purposefully obtuse, but "I've lost power and and everything in the fridge will go bad because it is a 7 degree, snow covered wasteland outside" seems a little derpy to me.

I remember losing power a few times in Boone, and each time the MO was bury the Miller and milk in the snow, eat the block of cheese now. Granted, that was bachelor living....
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Had a bad ice storm here in Alamance Co around 2002 or so. I know my oldest kid was just a baby at the time...

Anyhow we lost power for 7 days. Didn't lose a thing in the fridge. I put it all in a cooler out on the porch and I had an endless supply of ice to keep it all cold.
 
It keeps getting better. An 11 year old child died because of the power company’s negligence according to his family and are suing for $100 million ...

MSN

www.msn.com
... in the article ... “Despite having knowledge of the dire weather forecast for at least a week in advance, and the knowledge that the system was not prepared for more than a decade, ERCOT and Entergy failed to take any preemptory action that could have averted the crisis and were wholly unprepared to deal with the crisis at hand," the lawsuit states.” So if the power company knew it was coming a week ahead the people, including the boy’s family, did also so why didn’t they prepare for it as well. People just want to be given crap and feed at the teat of the government ... not taking responsibility for their own life and blame someone else when something bad happens.
 
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Me. said:
Self-sufficiency is the enemy of society and human advancement.

Whenever humans clump together, they reduce their self-sufficiency for the benefit of all.

Even within a household, self-sufficiency would limit the happiness and quality of life for all.


No one is “self sufficient” and also useful to society. Self-sufficiency is useful to only the most selfish, or the lost and remote.




Anyone who believes they are self sufficient quickly changes their mind when they need medication.
Click to expand...

Me. said:
In even the most remote places, society has leaned hard on individual roles over “do everything”.

When a ship landed in America and a colony was set up, people worked cooperatively and benefitted each other. As the colony grows, you end up with a butcher, a farmer, a blacksmith, etc.

Specialization reduces self-sufficiency, but benefits society.

As for the “truly self-sufficient”, they are useless to society, and do not move the species forward in any meaningful way.

No one in America can mine ore, smelt it, and make a TV. Or penicillin.


We are surrounded by success stories of “society over self-sufficiency”, and only rarely hit with situations where being able to handle-everything is valued. And even those uncommon situations are fleeting.
Click to expand...

Me. said:
Premise, your examples confuse “capability” with “self-sufficient”.

We cut our grass with machines made by many other people. We plant the grass with seeds grown far from our lawn.

Budget? Self-sufficient have no money and no trade. Guitar string? Can you make a guitar string? Water heater element? No such thing in the world of the self-sufficient.

Fire extinguisher.... the self-sufficient at best has a bucket of water.
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Me. said:
I’m more impressed that you were able to create a computer and phone, and the networks they use.

The capacity to handle passing hardships is NOT what self-sufficiency is. Anyone who reads this post and believes they are self-sufficient is wrong. Period.


The semantics agreement has reached its conclusion..... overall, we work together, and nobody can “do it all”.


Let’s get back to learning from TX so we can be better prepared. My semantic entry to the thread is not helping.
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You're being pedantic again, my friend. The literally definition of self-sufficient would allow for your argument to hold all of the intellectual water you could pour into it.

However, in true pedantic form, you're ignoring context. In the context of this discussion the definition of "self-sufficient" gets bent a little bit. It means "able to handle oneself in a time of need". It even means "knows how to do more around the house than changing a light bulb". It sort of "fluctuates" in context.

Often, words, and their definitions/uses/meanings (particularly in English) tend to "morph" over time. You are correct. If we're being literal, and using "self-sufficient" the way it was used a couple of centuries ago, there are very few among us who are. And even they live minimalist lifestyles (no need for "fancy" things like guitar strings or computers).

I suppose a more appropriate version would have been "MORE self-sufficient". That way context would have implied LEANING that way, rather than actually being self-sufficient literally.

Pedantic semantics, anyone?

All that being said, I feel like we may need to have a beer someday.
 
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I'm self sufficient til I run out of shit................
 
Windini said:
Hey! I think you just said "Ok, Boomer!" :D
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Lol kind of. It’s really weird. My Dad is an army vet and never taught me anything about firearms, survival skills, nothing. Like I mentioned above, I spent my childhood playing video games. As an adult with my own small children, I understand the tiredness and temptation to just put them in front of a screen so I can have “me time” but my wife and I are really trying to fight that.

The main problem I have right now is I want to be more self sufficient and hand that on to my kids but I came to the realization in adulthood and am trying to make up for lost time but I’m learning while also trying to teach them and tend to get overwhelmed by how much I don’t know and often unsure where to start with things.
 
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jrico59 said:
and often unsure where to start with things.
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Just the next thing in front of you. Really. No more, no less.
Us old farts didn’t go to school to learn this.
Something broke. We said “F&%k!” and figured out how to fix it.
I will say the internet makes it lot easier.
If that goes down, there’ll be a lot more trial and error, like it was prior to about 2000.
 
jrico59 said:
Lol kind of. It’s really weird. My Dad is an army vet and never taught me anything about firearms, survival skills, nothing. Like I mentioned above, I spent my childhood playing video games. As an adult with my own small children, I understand the tiredness and temptation to just put them in front of a screen so I can have “me time” but my wife and I are really trying to fight that.

The main problem I have right now is I want to be more self sufficient and hand that on to my kids but I came to the realization in adulthood and am trying to make up for lost time but I’m learning while also trying to teach them and tend to get overwhelmed by how much I don’t know and often unsure where to start with things.
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You have a fantastic opportunity to learn WITH your kids! Maybe they're too small to participate now, but talk in front of them about 1. the problem, 2. that you don't know anything, 3. that you're gonna find out, 4. a bit about what & how you found out, 5. your attempts to fix or do things, 6. the results, good or bad, and 7. your pride if it was a success or your determination to try again if less so. As they get older, let them (ok, make them!) help.

I learned far more from mentors than teachers. Model the behavior of not being afraid to try and tackle something new, and keep an upbeat attitude. I bet they'll imitate you!
 
jrico59 said:
Lol kind of. It’s really weird. My Dad is an army vet and never taught me anything about firearms, survival skills, nothing. Like I mentioned above, I spent my childhood playing video games. As an adult with my own small children, I understand the tiredness and temptation to just put them in front of a screen so I can have “me time” but my wife and I are really trying to fight that.

The main problem I have right now is I want to be more self sufficient and hand that on to my kids but I came to the realization in adulthood and am trying to make up for lost time but I’m learning while also trying to teach them and tend to get overwhelmed by how much I don’t know and often unsure where to start with things.
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my dad showed me a little of a lot of stuff. He gave me a lot of technical books too - probably to shut me up and keep me busy, but that's not the point here. Stuff far beyond what a kid can generally understand, but it gave me some foundations. I'm far from good at most things, but i got pretty good at learning to apply what i know from one thing to another.
And you might be surprised at how many principles are shared between electrical work, plumbing, physiology, and neuroscience.
I see younger people today who have no idea how to change a tire, don't know how to fix a leaky faucet, don't know a darn thing about troubleshooting common homeowner problems... and all I can think is that "learn to code" still isn't the solid advice that "learn a trade" is

I'm kind of in the same boat as you though. I grew up in the suburbs. I know a little... but it would be nowhere near enough to go "off grid" or start homesteading without a few decades of trial-and-fail. Or at least I don't think so. But take me camping out where there's no power and such, and old memories start popping up of things i've forgotten over the last 30+ years since we went on family trips with my dad, who does not look back fondly on the jungles of 'nam.
 
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