This might be where it starts

The LEO I have known well for quite a while all carry all the time. They do it to protect themselves. Other citizens should be able to do likewise. Other citizens run into people who want to do them harm from previous contact. As a teacher at the college level, I occasionally got threats, some quite serious, from students and frequently ran into students off campus. As a fat old man with bad knees, it might be hard to outfight or outrun a 20 year old athlete. I should be allowed to have some effective equalizer at my disposal for protection.

edit: One of several differences between LEO and other citizens is that the LEO are expected to run towards conflicts while other citizens are expected to run away from conflicts if possible.
 
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I think we're closer in our beliefs and I appreciate knowing that whenever possible private citizens can develop the skills necessary to possess a spidey sense and also be in a position to react to a threat...…….BECAUSE they can see it coming. Training and dedication helps develop that very skill.

And I’d also like to point out that these issues are core beliefs that many of us lay our foundations upon.
Many of us have differing or even diametrically opposing beliefs, yet, at least here, so far, we are remaining civil, asking for clarification when we don’t understand, and being gracious...

So it’s pretty awesome to have a place we can discuss and debate without devolving into attacks.
 
And I’d also like to point out that these issues are core beliefs that many of us lay our foundations upon.
Many of us have differing or even diametrically opposing beliefs, yet, at least here, so far, we are remaining civil, asking for clarification when we don’t understand, and being gracious...

So it’s pretty awesome to have a place we can discuss and debate without devolving into attacks.

Well said sir and you nailed the very reason that CFF can exist and grow further in membership as time goes on.

Thank you for making my day.
 
I watch a lot of reality shows, think it was COPS in Florida episode.
I recall an officer who would drive home using different routes should somebody want to follow her home
from the station. She arrives home and is ready to get out of her personal vehicle when one of the bad guys
she arrested tried to shoot her, she had her service weapon and was able to take him out DRT.

She is a single mom and had three kids so she was not going to go out easy.
 
I used to have a little quiz I would give people when discussing Leo carrying vs average Joe citizen when they thought only cops needed guns. It goes something like this.

1. Do you believe cops have a dangerous job and should therefore carry a firearm?

Most answer yes.

2. Do you think citizens should carry?

Most answered no.

3. Out of a hundred calls to any given law enforcement agency for a violent crime(rape robbery murder assault or whatever) how often does law enforcement arrive while the crime is in progress?

Answers vary but somewhere between 10 and 25 times. Go with the high number and call it 25%.

4. Who besides the criminal is at the scene of a violent crime.

Answer to that one is average Joe citizen.

5. How often?

100% of the time


You still think average Joe citizen should not carry.

Most didn't have an answer for that one.
 
When they start eating their own, it's going to cause many to question their loyaties. That thin blue line may be getting too thin.
Long time ago I was a bartender in south Boston, ma. Two firemen owned the place. Hence, off duty firemen frequented the place.
In that town cops and firemen are union. Union 'brothers'. You have my back, I have yours right?
Wrong answer.
Firemen go on strike, expect union brothers for support.
Wrong again.
Mayor says 'break up their demonstrations'.
Cops show their true colors.
Working for the King.
 
That's very humbling to read sir and I sincerely appreciate your kind words. The awesome members of this great forum deserve no less than the very best because we're only as strong as our membership.

Sadly, I was awakened early this morning with the gut-wrenching news that we had just lost another one of our Lumberton City law enforcement officers while at a scene on Interstate 95.

https://abc11.com/lumberton-police-officer-fatally-struck-while-investigating-crash/4904178/

That sucks. Hanging around roads and highways is just insane me anymore. It is very likely Miss Inman was posting on social media on her phone while driving. Or in her own little I am the center of the universe world while driving 80 mph. If they can, throw the book at her.

I also think LEO, Fire and Ambulance personnel need new procedures for roadside calls. It is far more dangerous now than it was 5-10 years ago.
 
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When they start eating their own, it's going to cause many to question their loyaties. That thin blue line may be getting too thin.


Yup
While I thought the letter stated that legislation is being worked on to "Allow" NJ Leos to have "High Capacity(?)" magazines at all times, they still are currently banned with all the rest of us "Common Peasants."


We never seem to Learn, even from our own History.

Indian.jpg
 
The idea that special privileges can be bestowed upon one group, cops in this instance, by people who don’t have or are denied the same is illogical and asinine. If one doesn’t have it, they can’t give it to another.

No special treatment, no special privileges, period. Anything else is putting govt. above the people and that is tyranny.
 
The idea that special privileges can be bestowed upon one group, cops in this instance, by people who don’t have or are denied the same is illogical and asinine. If one doesn’t have it, they can’t give it to another.

No special treatment, no special privileges, period. Anything else is putting govt. above the people and that is tyranny.
But doesn't govt already put themselves above us?
 
But doesn't govt already put themselves above us?
They sure are doing their best to try. It flies in the face of the principles on which this nation was founded.

It’s actually funny seeing one group that thought they were part of the “in” crowd finding themselves on the outside. They, as well as anyone, should have known how fast their masters could and will turn on them.
 
The idea that special privileges can be bestowed upon one group, cops in this instance, by people who don’t have or are denied the same is illogical and asinine. If one doesn’t have it, they can’t give it to another.

No special treatment, no special privileges, period. Anything else is putting govt. above the people and that is tyranny.

You mean like having a separate but better retirement or health insurance plan?
 
You mean like having a separate but better retirement or health insurance plan?
Who gives them those things? While similar in principle, it’s a little different than the power to rule. Obviously, it’s their employer that supposedly has the funds to pay for those things. Of course in the case of public employees, their employer stole it from the people and if the people try to object and refuse to pay, it will be those same lapdogs that are unleashed on said people.

Pretty perverted setup isn’t it?
 
Who gives them those things? While similar in principle, it’s a little different than the power to rule. Obviously, it’s their employer that supposedly has the funds to pay for those things. Of course in the case of public employees, their employer stole it from the people and if the people try to object and refuse to pay, it will be those same lapdogs that are unleashed on said people.

Pretty perverted setup isn’t it?

I was referencing Congress critters.
 
The idea that special privileges can be bestowed upon one group, cops in this instance, by people who don’t have or are denied the same is illogical and asinine. If one doesn’t have it, they can’t give it to another.

No special treatment, no special privileges, period. Anything else is putting govt. above the people and that is tyranny.
1499391446893
 
The LEO I have known well for quite a while all carry all the time. They do it to protect themselves. Other citizens should be able to do likewise. Other citizens run into people who want to do them harm from previous contact. As a teacher at the college level, I occasionally got threats, some quite serious, from students and frequently ran into students off campus. As a fat old man with bad knees, it might be hard to outfight or outrun a 20 year old athlete. I should be allowed to have some effective equalizer at my disposal for protection.

edit: One of several differences between LEO and other citizens is that the LEO are expected to run towards conflicts while other citizens are expected to run away from conflicts if possible.

The problem is that often the issue is over by the time they get around to"running" towards the problem. 23 minutes response time to an alarm at my house a while back. It just added another reason why I or anyone else shouldn't have to wait for them to arrive on scene to defend myself. It was a simple case of a door blew open leading from the garage to the mudroom, but I beat the cop to my house, and was just getting it settled with the alarm company when he came. They had been trying to call me but I was in a dead zone we have out here. The city did however get the false alarm and you pay next time warning letter out very quickly.

I'm not posting this to throw shade on cops. They are generally a reactionary force, as it should be. There very well could have been a good reason why the response time was awful. It is what it is I guess. I think the nationwide average is about ten minutes, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, the bottom line is that I am not interested in waiting that ten-ish minutes to take care of business. A lot can happen in that time frame.
 
The on-duty officers are surely there to protect them just like they are there to protect all citizens. There is no need for off duty PD to even carry a weapon. :D

They should have the exact same rights as us. If they want more freedom they should vocally support it for all, not just themselves.
One of the most "Liked" post I ever seen and deservedly so.
 
I watch a lot of reality shows, think it was COPS in Florida episode.
I recall an officer who would drive home using different routes should somebody want to follow her home
from the station. She arrives home and is ready to get out of her personal vehicle when one of the bad guys
she arrested tried to shoot her, she had her service weapon and was able to take him out DRT.

She is a single mom and had three kids so she was not going to go out easy.
A bunch of years ago I worked as a maintenance guy in the county detention center. A favorite saying of the detainees was 'see you at the mall'.
One of my coworkers had worked in the 'old jail'.
One night he is sitting at the house with the family and the doorbell rings.
Voila! There stands before him some guy that knew my buddy from the jail, somehow got his address, and came a-calling asking for money.
Nothing violent happened, but it isn't just the cops that interact with these people.
 
The problem is that often the issue is over by the time they get around to"running" towards the problem. 23 minutes response time to an alarm at my house a while back. It just added another reason why I or anyone else shouldn't have to wait for them to arrive on scene to defend myself. It was a simple case of a door blew open leading from the garage to the mudroom, but I beat the cop to my house, and was just getting it settled with the alarm company when he came. They had been trying to call me but I was in a dead zone we have out here. The city did however get the false alarm and you pay next time warning letter out very quickly.

I'm not posting this to throw shade on cops. They are generally a reactionary force, as it should be. There very well could have been a good reason why the response time was awful. It is what it is I guess. I think the nationwide average is about ten minutes, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, the bottom line is that I am not interested in waiting that ten-ish minutes to take care of business. A lot can happen in that time frame.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
 
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Absolutely. If it takes a while for the good guy with the gun to get there to deal with the bad guy with a gun, knife, bottle of acid, large club, ice pick, tire iron, or a zillion other types of lethal weapons, the good guy at the scene should be allowed to have a suitable weapon so he can have a reasonable chance of dealing with the bad guy if he is unable to disengage successfully.
 
The on-duty officers are surely there to protect them just like they are there to protect all citizens. There is no need for off duty PD to even carry a weapon. :D

They should have the exact same rights as us. If they want more freedom they should vocally support it for all, not just themselves.
Just reposted because hell yeah!
 
Absolutely. If it takes a while for the good guy with the gun to get there to deal with the bad guy with a gun, knife, bottle of acid, large club, ice pick, tire iron, or a zillion other types of lethal weapons, the good guy at the scene should be allowed to have a suitable weapon so he can have a reasonable chance of dealing with the bad guy if he is unable to disengage successfully.

Please stop referring to the police as the good guys, they are not. The police are just government sponsored criminals, they do what they are told to do, they don't care about right or wrong, legal or not.
 
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Please stop referring to the police as the good guys, they are not. The police are just government sponsored criminals, they do what they are told to do, they don't care about right or wrong, legal or not.

If some thug is trying to kill me, anyone who shows up with appropriate power to keep him from doing so is a good guy at that moment. I did not specify that the good guy had to be a LEO.

That being said, if I am experiencing a home invasion by a gang of armed maggots, I am more likely, while holed up in my back room with my wife, dog, several 1911's, and a few long guns, to call the cops for assistance (in cleaning up dead maggots) than I am to call the cute little server at Bojangles or the Antifa jerk who lives down the street.
 
If some thug is trying to kill me, anyone who shows up with appropriate power to keep him from doing so is a good guy at that moment. I did not specify that the good guy had to be a LEO.

That being said, if I am experiencing a home invasion by a gang of armed maggots, I am more likely, while holed up in my back room with my wife, dog, several 1911's, and a few long guns, to call the cops for assistance (in cleaning up dead maggots) than I am to call the cute little server at Bojangles or the Antifa jerk who lives down the street.
Truth!
 
As much as I appreciate the sentiment that this sort of equal justice under the law will convince LEOs to join the Cause of Liberty and Justice For All, as soon as they carve out their exemption and reestablish their preferred status in the King's Court, they will go right back to advocating for the disarmament of the People in Officer Safety's Name, Amen.
 
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I don't have an issue with it (cops carrying, billion-round mags, whatever, off-duty). BUT: as stipulated here several times, that should be same right as all of us. We all have it, or none of us have it. As for off-duty LEOs seeing people in the community, how about medics and ED nurses seeing the same people? How about the convenience store owner in the hood? Or the little old lady who walks alone from the bodega? The repo man? How about, it's our right?
 
I don't have an issue with it (cops carrying, billion-round mags, whatever, off-duty). BUT: as stipulated here several times, that should be same right as all of us. We all have it, or none of us have it. As for off-duty LEOs seeing people in the community, how about medics and ED nurses seeing the same people? How about the convenience store owner in the hood? Or the little old lady who walks alone from the bodega? The repo man? How about, it's our right?
You're exactly right.
 
As much as I appreciate the sentiment that this sort of equal justice under the law will convince LEOs to join the Cause of Liberty and Justice For All, as soon as they carve out their exemption and reestablish their preferred status in the King's Court, they will go right back to advocating for the disarmament of the People in Officer Safety's Name, Amen.
Yup.
 
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