Tombstone….

Tim

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Virgil, Morgan and Wyatt were gun-grabbing, anti-2A, big government liberals. Change my mind.

Posted in “OK Corral” instead of TV & Movies because I’m funny like that.
 
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You are correct. When I was in Tombstone I mentioned this to one of the historians. He talked for 10 minutes and didn't say anything. Musts been a touchy subject.


Sounds like a politician, where they are asked a question and then say "Well, first let me say this", then they talk for 3 minutes and never answer the damn question.


.
 
Virgil, Morgan and Wyatt were gun-grabbing, anti-2A, big government liberals. Change my mind.

Can’t, because you’re right…

Ordinance No.9:

"To Provide against Carrying of Deadly Weapons" (effective April 19, 1881).

Section 1. It is hereby declared unlawful to carry in the hand or upon the person or otherwise any deadly weapon within the limits of said city of Tombstone, without first obtaining a permit in writing.

Section 2: This prohibition does not extend to persons immediately leaving or entering the city, who, with good faith, and within reasonable time are proceeding to deposit, or take from the place of deposit such deadly weapon.

Section 3: All fire-arms of every description, and bowie knives and dirks, are included within the prohibition of this ordinance.
 
Virgil, Morgan and Wyatt were gun-grabbing, anti-2A, big government liberals. Change my mind.

Posted in “OK Corral” instead of TV & Movies because I’m funny like that.

Molon labe!

iu
 
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Virgil, Morgan and Wyatt were gun-grabbing, anti-2A, big government liberals. Change my mind.
I'll take a crack at it.

They weren't gun grabbers. They didn't try to confiscate anyone's guns. They only enacted the ordnance that guns couldn't be lawfully carried within town limits and were to be held by whoever was authorized to hold said guns until the owners were ready to leave town...very often a saloon keeper or a deputy.

In "The Town too tough to die" this was understandable. Charged with keeping the peace in such a town, allowing armed drunks in saloons would be a very good way for a peace officer to get shot in the back while intervening in a bar or street fight, and having to shoot somebody who pulled a gun while they were intervening would have been bad for business...as would a drunk howling at the moon and shooting up the town for funsies.
 
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Kevin Costner was a better Wyatt Earp than Kurt Russell. Change my mind.
I thought Russell wasn't the best pic, he just looked silly with the huge black mustache I thought and didn't really deliver any memorable scenes except for ejecting the dealer from the saloon. He did good on that.
 
But Val Kilmer was the best Doc.
I completely agree! I really like tombstone for it's one liners and energy. But Wyatt Earp was just a better life story of the man. It's not really fair to put them in the same category simply because they aren't the same by any means. Tombstone is a western and Wyatt Earp is more of a Biopic as a whole I thought Wyatt Earp had the better casting. I really like costner as Wyatt and Joanna Going was just a way better Josie. Kilmer embodies Doc Holiday from stories. His whore would have to go to Wyatt Earp's casting as well.
 
I completely agree! I really like tombstone for it's one liners and energy. But Wyatt Earp was just a better life story of the man. It's not really fair to put them in the same category simply because they aren't the same by any means. Tombstone is a western and Wyatt Earp is more of a Biopic as a whole I thought Wyatt Earp had the better casting. I really like costner as Wyatt and Joanna Going was just a way better Josie. Kilmer embodies Doc Holiday from stories. His whore would have to go to Wyatt Earp's casting as well.
Kilmer did a great job of depicting his nihilism, wit and his self destructive relationship with a woman allegedly as volatile and violent as he was in her own way.
 
Something of a side step from the thread, but back around late 2019 I recommended 'Doc Holliday' to my stepson for the name of his tank ... he was XO of Diablo Troop (thus, D names). Took some doing, but I received a photo of the finished product along with the tank crew in early 2020.

Later add: edited out the crew for the sake of privacy.

1679353810435.jpeg
 
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Yes and no. At the time of the O.K. Corral shootout, Arizona was not yet a state, it was still just a territory. And it was not clearly established yet whether the Constitution applied to territories, or to what extent it applied if it did. It was not until the turn of the century that the Supreme Court hashed out the application of the Constitution to territories. Even then, the Court declined to hold that the Constitution extended to territories in its entirety. But it DID eventually hold that fundamental rights in the Constitution applied to persons in U.S. territories. So in a practical sense, the "no gun" ordinance did violate the 2nd Amendment, under a retroactive application of the Supreme Court's holdings in these later cases. But the Earps would not have known that they were violating the Constitution at the time, because Arizona was not a U.S. state and the the strict application of the Second Amendment to U.S. territories was an unsettled question that had not yet been established.
 
Waterworld and The Post,am are enough to prove Costner has never been the best anything. Especially a tough guy.
Kevin Costner is the best "old guy who loves baseball" guy....

For Love of the Game
Field of Dreams
Bull Durham
 
Virgil, Morgan and Wyatt were gun-grabbing, anti-2A, big government liberals.

No lies detected.



Waterworld and The Post,am are enough to prove Costner has never been the best anything. Especially a tough guy.

From what I've seen he's doing great in Yellowstone.



The results of the OK Corral proved the futility of outlawing guns.

There is no law so trivial they won't murder you to enforce it.
 
Some of my favs was Joel McCrea as Wyatt Earp in the movie Wichita. Another I liked was Randolph Scott as Wyatt Earp and the joker himself Cesar Romero as doc Holliday in the movie Frontier Marshal great classic western films
 
A little fun fact. Everyone says huckleberry even all the merch says huckleberry. But the term is huckle bearer. Huckle was the term for the handles on coffin and the guys toting the coffin were huckle bearers
 
Virgil, Morgan and Wyatt were gun-grabbing, anti-2A, big government liberals. Change my mind.

Posted in “OK Corral” instead of TV & Movies because I’m funny like that.

OK, that's easy-peasy, at least for the Second Amendment part.

The Gunfight at OK Corral happened in 1881.

The Second Amendment did not apply to except against the federal government in those days. It wasn't until after the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868 that incorporation started happening. In fact, before incorporation began to be a thing, it was entirely possible for people in the new territories to have LESS rights upon achieving statehood.

In fact, it was in 1865 when the Thirteenth Amendment was ratified that any amendment to the U.S. Constitution was seen as also binding on the States.

The Supreme Court held that many of the Amendments under the Bill of Rights ONLY applied to the federal government for quite a number of years after the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified. It wasn't until the 1920s that the Supreme Court interpreted the Fourteenth Amendment to incorporate most (not all) of the Bill of Rights such that the States could also be held accountable to them. The process of incorporation can trace its roots as far back as 1897 with Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy Railroad v. City of Chicago.

And even with incorporation, there's partial incorporation and total incorporation. There are no less than 7 court cases which incorporate aspects of the First Amendment, for example, spanning almost 6 full decades before we could finally say the First Amendment was fully incorporated. (1925 to 1984)

1897 is 16 years after the events of the OK Corral.

And the Second Amendment has only in very recent times been fully incorporated against the States in 2008 (District of Columbia v Heller) and 2010 (McDonald v City of Chicago).


So, while they could arguably be considered to be "gun grabbing" for confiscating cowboy firearms upon entering Tombstone, firearms were returned to people upon leaving town.

They weren't anti-2A, because the Bill of Rights was only viewed legally and popularly as applying to the "big government" people feared at the time, namely the federal government.

And they weren't "big government liberals", as they were only concerned with the local government and were likely exactly the same as most everybody else with respect to how the federal government was viewed...namely as the big evil that had to be restricted.
 
That is why concealed carry is so great. Can't have stuff confiscated the Earps didn't see.

Also, the Val Kilmer doc was my favorite. I have visited Tombstone itself. I think it wasn't the guns to blame. Or the liquor or the outlaws. It was just HOT. Too damn hot. Everyone back then must have just smelled terrible and been mad from the heat and dust all day /s
 
That is why concealed carry is so great. Can't have stuff confiscated the Earps didn't see.

Also, the Val Kilmer doc was my favorite. I have visited Tombstone itself. I think it wasn't the guns to blame. Or the liquor or the outlaws. It was just HOT. Too damn hot. Everyone back then must have just smelled terrible and been mad from the heat and dust all day /s
Brain cooking heat, layers of wool and hats, dark colours, no running water. Whatever could make people smell and be cranky?
 
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