Trust and Suppressor Questions

Fred said:
1. I want to start the NFA process. I'm in Durham, NC. Can anyone recommend dealers near RTP I can have suppressors ordered to near here, shops that stock suppressors, or engravers?

2. Is it generally better to order cans online(which looks much cheaper) and pay an NFA transfer fee, or buy at a dealer?

3. Is it bad for rifles to use 5.56 suppressors on rifles without adding an adjustable gas block or doing other tuning? I have mostly factory uppers from mid tier brands and don't want to tear them apart.

4. Are DIY trusts recommended? Are NFA trust services any more trustworthy? Seems like there should be a "fill in personal details" ready made trust document out there somewhere.

Thank you for your help.
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1. I’ll leave this for somebody local to you

2. I prefer to buy local in most cases. Build a relationship with a dealer, and they’ll usually match/beat most deals once the transfer fee is considered.

3. Not bad. Sometimes just a little gassy…sometimes a lot.

4. Probably several DIY versions out there. Lots of people have used Quicken Willmaker. For me, I’d suggest spending the $49 and using www.thetrustshop.net
 
I’ll also add that I wouldn’t consider changing a gas block “tearing it apart”.

But if you do, swapping the buffer is one of the tuning options.
 
Fred said:
I want to start the NFA process. I'm in Durham, NC. Can anyone recommend dealers near RTP I can have suppressors ordered to near here, shops that stock suppressors, or engravers?

Is it generally better to order cans online(which looks much cheaper) and pay an NFA transfer fee, or buy at a dealer?

Is it bad for rifles to use 5.56 suppressors on rifles without adding an adjustable gas block or doing other tuning? I have mostly factory uppers from mid tier brands and don't want to tear them apart.

Are DIY trusts recommended? Are NFA trust services any more trustworthy? Seems like there should be a "fill in personal details" ready made trust document out there somewhere.

Thank you for your help.
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Rob @ Clayton Guns can handle NFA transfers and has some inventory most days. He's also does engraving.
 
I use these to tame the gas on my suppressed rifles.

blackrivertactical.com

Black River Tactical Store - Shop BRT

Shop BRT Black River Tactical Store Covert Comp OPTIMUM EZTUNE Gas Tube MicroTUNE Gas Block CustomTUNE Gas Port MicroPin Gas Block Mk12 Gas Tube BRT EXT BRT EXC BRT PDW Pistol Carbine Mid Midlength Rifle Upper Receiver Group Bolt Carrier Group Barrels Muzzle Devices Adjustable Gas Drive AR15 LMT
blackrivertactical.com blackrivertactical.com

@BigWaylon put me on that TrustShop.net and it was very simple. Definitely would recommend 👍🏼
 
Similar to guns, I prefer to shop around online to find the best deals. No single dealer carries or has access to everything and I don’t want to limit my options. I very much dislike the need to negotiate with LGS’s just to get close to online pricing.

I have adjustable gas blocks on 2 AR’s, but I don’t find the gas that bad on the others.

I used Quicken Willmaker to make my trust years ago. It took quite a few hours of research to understand all of the terminology to ensure I was doing everything correctly so if you can get a trust setup the way you want for $50-100, that would probably be the better route to go, unless you want to spend the time learning.
 
Shawn Conver at Carolina Smoke and Guns is in Durham and great to work with. He can also set you up with a trust.

For me, I went with a lawyer drafted Trust through Shawn for one of mine. The value of the MG that is on it is such that I did not want to take the risk of losing it because I tried to save a few bucks by drafting my own.

@TSConver
 
I used @BigWaylon recommended thetrustshop.net.
 
Fred said:
I want to start the NFA process. I'm in Durham, NC. Can anyone recommend dealers near RTP I can have suppressors ordered to near here, shops that stock suppressors, or engravers?

Is it generally better to order cans online(which looks much cheaper) and pay an NFA transfer fee, or buy at a dealer?
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Triangle Shooting Academy (Brier Creek) works with online SilencerShop.com so you can buy from them, do paperwork at TSA and pay no transfer fees (nor shipping, IIRC).

www.triangleshootingacademy.com

Eform 4 Process - Triangle Shooting Academy

Triangle Shooting Academy is happy to partner with SilencerShop.com to meet the needs of our customers in a timely manner. Any NFA items not
www.triangleshootingacademy.com www.triangleshootingacademy.com
 
@Fred:
Rock City Guns in Roxboro sells suppressors and can handle NFA transfers -- and unlike Triangle Shooting Academy they don't sell for MRSP but, instead, sell their firearms close to or at MAP. If you're in north Durham they're only a 20ish min drive up 501 from ya.
 
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Question for folks who understand trusts: do you save a lot of $ if you start with a trust vs. creating a trust down the road? If so, what decisions do you need to make up front to create a trust? In my case I just wanted to get on with it and buy a suppressor so I didn't get a trust, but now I wonder if I made a mistake. Seems like a trust will be needed at some point.

FWIW, I bought my suppressors at Silencer Shop and used the kiosk at Carolina Gunrunners in N Raleigh. No transfer fees and everything went smoothly.
 
MrBitey said:
Question for folks who understand trusts: do you save a lot of $ if you start with a trust vs. creating a trust down the road? If so, what decisions do you need to make up front to create a trust? In my case I just wanted to get on with it and buy a suppressor so I didn't get a trust, but now I wonder if I made a mistake. Seems like a trust will be needed at some point.

FWIW, I bought my suppressors at Silencer Shop and used the kiosk at Carolina Gunrunners in N Raleigh. No transfer fees and everything went smoothly.
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you save $200 per item by putting them on a trust at first purchase as opposed to purchasing as an individual and then transferring them to a trust...
that could be a lot, or it could be a little. depends on you.
I surely wouldn't want to pay another $200 on each of my items...
 
@SecundusSystems has my nomad (that's still in jail) he's right outside of Pittsboro and has a SS kiosk at his location. He's great to work with and very reasonable on pricing. I've bought a handful of things from him.

Rent one or find someone to shoot one on an AR (if you never have shot suppressed). Buy local if you can, most places will work with you on pricing. And some gun shops charge a large fee for NFA transfers.
 
Fred said:
Rock City Guns: 49/57 minutes, they have two locations. Their site doesn't have any nfa fees or information anywhere on it, and there are very few suppressors listed on their website, none under brands like Dead Air, Surefire, etc. Weird. They're much closer than THSF and surrealone's recommendation had me interested. Definitely calling them.
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The 2990 Durham Rd, Roxboro, NC 27573 location is most relevant for Rock City Guns. This is also the southernmost location that's closest to Durham, and it's the one that's staffed/open each day. (The other location is their original/first store ... which they no longer have firearm displays in and now use for smithing, fabrication, CHP classes, etc.) Their ability to handle NFA firearms was finalized during the pandemic and BLM rioting ... and their FTF business is brisk ... so their website doesn't receive a lot of love.

IIRC they carry Dead Air in the shop, but they can order anything that is in stock from their distributors. When you call let them know up front you have suppressor questions. Ideally speak with Alex (manager) or Daniel (2nd most knowledgeable -- a clerk); all the rest of the clerks were hired during or after the pandemic, making them relatively new.
 
Fred said:
Clayton Guns: 45 minutes away. 75-100$ per transfer(does this include ones bought on site? which are cheaper?) online per website. 35$ "technology fee". Offers engraving, cost not listed on site. Doesn't say what suppressors they deal, just refers to SilencerShop. @JohnFreeman do they make any deals, or do as a SilencerShop dealer do they go by SilencerShop web prices(like TSA below)? Those are usually high.
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Transfer fee is for suppressors bought outside of SilencerShop (which is why, I think, SS is typically a little higher than other dealers). Once you factor in transfer fees, SS prices aren’t all that high and they have sales frequently.

Rob does have suppressors but I don’t know if he makes “deals” or not. I haven’t had anything engraved there (just have suppressors), so I don’t know that pricing
 
Fred said:
Thanks for all the help. @BigWaylon thetrustshop.net has a few users here, is only 50$, and seems to have tools for the future modifications to the trust. This looks like a good option.
Thanks.



Clayton Guns: 45 minutes away. 75-100$ per transfer(does this include ones bought on site? which are cheaper?) online per website. 35$ "technology fee". Offers engraving, cost not listed on site. Doesn't say what suppressors they deal, just refers to SilencerShop. @JohnFreeman do they make any deals, or do as a SilencerShop dealer do they go by SilencerShop web prices(like TSA below)? Those are usually high.

Triangle Shooting Academy: 17 minutes away. 100$ transfer fee only for suppressors bought online, but in store or SilencerShop prices are MSRP(@surrealone thanks for the heads up). Additional 5$ fee for all transfers.

Rock City Guns: 49/57 minutes, they have two locations. Their site doesn't have any nfa fees or information anywhere on it, and there are very few suppressors listed on their website, none under brands like Dead Air, Surefire, etc. Weird. They're much closer than THSF and surrealone's recommendation had me interested. Definitely calling them.

Tar Heel State Firearms: 2 hrs 20 min. Engraving 30$. They "handle fingerprints". If that doesn't mean a SilencerShop kiosk, that might be good. "Incoming" suppressor transfer is only 85$. The silencers on their website are MSRP, of course. Does anyone know how far below MSRP they sell, and how they handle fingerprints? If I don't have to go there more than once to buy and once to pick up items, it might be worth a couple of long drives.

Fuquay Gun and Gold doesn't accept incoming NFA transfers. No NFA transfer details on their website.

SecundusSystems: I'm close to Pittsboro often, but his website is totally empty. Not a phone number, email, or address. @SecundusSystems Can you help?

I can rule out TSA. I'll have to call the others tomorrow. Other suggestions are appreciated.
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if you're not opposed to driving, i have done business with The Rock and Rhudys here in Fayetteville and both have taken good care of me at low prices.
 
I’ll pick and choose a couple things to answer.

THSF has their own fingerprint scanning system. Not affiliated with SilencerShop in any way.

Silencer Shop doesn’t set prices. Everything you see is controlled by the individual dealers. Yes, SS puts a number in there to begin with, but the dealer has full ability to change it.

The “technology fee” is either completely bogus, or is referring to you buying something outside of the SS system and using the kiosk. Remember…the kiosk has one purpose, to collect prints.

A SS dealer can sell you SS inventory without you going through the SS app/website. They can often sell you a can for less than the app/website because of MAP. There isn’t an added fee when doing this.

If you wanted a can that SS didn’t carry, that’s when the fee would come into play.

There shouldn’t be a transfer fee for anything bought through the SS system. There also shouldn’t be a transfer fee for anything bought directly from the local dealer, even if that dealer has to order it first. The only time a transfer fee should be charged is when you ordered from a 3rd party and had the local dealer receive it and process your Form 4.

You can roll your own prints. So no need to ever pay somebody else to collect them.
 
Fred said:
Thanks for all the help. @BigWaylon thetrustshop.net has a few users here, is only 50$, and seems to have tools for the future modifications to the trust. This looks like a good option.
Thanks.



Clayton Guns: 45 minutes away. 75-100$ per transfer(does this include ones bought on site? which are cheaper?) online per website. 35$ "technology fee". Offers engraving, cost not listed on site. Doesn't say what suppressors they deal, just refers to SilencerShop. @JohnFreeman do they make any deals, or do as a SilencerShop dealer do they go by SilencerShop web prices(like TSA below)? Those are usually high.

Triangle Shooting Academy: 17 minutes away. 100$ transfer fee only for suppressors bought online, but in store or SilencerShop prices are MSRP(@surrealone thanks for the heads up). Additional 5$ fee for all transfers.

Rock City Guns: 49/57 minutes, they have two locations. Their site doesn't have any nfa fees or information anywhere on it, and there are very few suppressors listed on their website, none under brands like Dead Air, Surefire, etc. Weird. They're much closer than THSF and surrealone's recommendation had me interested. Definitely calling them.

Tar Heel State Firearms: 2 hrs 20 min. Engraving 30$. They "handle fingerprints". If that doesn't mean a SilencerShop kiosk, that might be good. "Incoming" suppressor transfer is only 85$. The silencers on their website are MSRP, of course. Does anyone know how far below MSRP they sell, and how they handle fingerprints? If I don't have to go there more than once to buy and once to pick up items, it might be worth a couple of long drives.

Fuquay Gun and Gold doesn't accept incoming NFA transfers. No NFA transfer details on their website.

SecundusSystems: I'm close to Pittsboro often, but his website is totally empty. Not a phone number, email, or address. @SecundusSystems Can you help?

I can rule out TSA. I'll have to call the others tomorrow. Other suggestions are appreciated.
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@Fred I need to keep my shop with a low profile for a few reasons but I am legit. My info is listed on: https://www.silencershop.com/secundus-systems

I am a SilencerShop Silver dealer and have had a working SilencerShop kiosk for a few months. I will list it on their website in the next month when I complete a expansion project. Happy to help you with any questions or orders. @BigWaylon is (of course) correct on all of his points. No transfer fees for anything you buy from me even if I have to order it. If I can't get it from SilencerShop (which is fairly common) there is a small paper work / technology fee.

For members here, I can almost always do better than what I show at Silencer Shop.

NFA dealers are also covering insurance for your item for as long as the ATF decides to take to process your tax payment.
 
Fred said:
I think so, but I'm not sure and if so it was a long time ago. Is there something I should be aware of?
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My 2¢…

I know you hear everybody, including me, saying “suppress everything”. However, I can’t tell you the last time I shot a suppressed centerfire pistol other than to show somebody what it’s like. To just shoot one for my own enjoyment hasn’t happened in years.

Suppressed PCC is much better. Or anything rimfire. Or even shooting a suppressed AR.

If it was me, doing it again, I’d focus my money and time on anything else first.
 
100% agree with Waylon.

The only time my suppressed pistol comes out is for other people to shoot. I rarely shoot it for my own enjoyment.

My CZ Scorpion on the other hand, gets shot frequently. Probably more than anything else I own as it gets used for pest control sometimes weekly.

Buy suppressors for everything else before you buy one for pistols. I don't even like shooting 22 (and don't have a rimfire can), but if I could do it all over again, I'd skip the can I got for pistols and get a rimfire can instead.
 
I don’t think there’s a Surefire can out there that would make my Top 20 list, even if you cut the price in half. But there sure are enough fanboys (and gov contracts) to keep them in the market.
 
Fred said:
@BigWaylon @TRaGiK I'll be getting a Surefire RC2 for 5.56. That was the first can I decided to get, before I looked at any rimfire or pistol cans. I want a 7.62 can for 6.5 CM precision rifles but don't know what to get or what attachment system to use yet.
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Some of the most accurate suppressors for precision rifles are made by TBAC. Last time I checked, they had a higher percentage of the long range precision market than any other manufacturer.
 
I’ve never worried about flash, so I’ve never even attempted a list with that being a consideration.

I know SiCo makes a flash hider endcap for any of the Charlie series cans. I have one on a Saker.
 
Dead Air also makes flash hider end caps.

I only own a single rifle can at this point. A Dead Air Nomad L. I have yet to shoot it at night, but I suspect no flash will exit the can. Not exactly a great AR can though, just due to length.
 
I’m pretty new to the can world and heavily relied on @BigWaylon advice when going through the process and choosing mine. So I wouldn’t hesitate to take his recommendations.

I’ll say since you mentioned the obsidian 9; that is what I went with for my 9mm can and so far I have been very happy. Hopefully I don’t have any front end cap strikes but even if I do, I’m confident Rugged will take care of it. Mine is probably at over 2K rounds right now and no issues so far and since I got my cans I barely shoot anything unsuppressed.

I’ll be echo what was said above and confirm that pistols just aren’t that fun to shoot suppressed, most are unreliable at best and it’s just a bulky package. I put a can on a pistol just to show people new to suppressors what it sounds like.

BUT..I do have an exception; my FN 509T is the best handgun ive ever run with a can and it eats everything with no issue ( completely different story than my Glocks) so much so that I have made it my night stand gun. I keep next to me while I sleep with a FN509T a SF X300, Holosun 508T and Obsidian 9 in K configuration. I absolutely trust grabbing that pistol and it working if I ever need it to.
 
BigWaylon said:
My 2¢…

I know you hear everybody, including me, saying “suppress everything”. However, I can’t tell you the last time I shot a suppressed centerfire pistol other than to show somebody what it’s like. To just shoot one for my own enjoyment hasn’t happened in years.

Suppressed PCC is much better. Or anything rimfire. Or even shooting a suppressed AR.

If it was me, doing it again, I’d focus my money and time on anything else first.
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Yep, I’ve got a REV 45 and a couple of pistons for pistols…i can’t remember the last time I’ve used them! It lives on my PCC and .300 BO. I’ve got sevreal .22 cans, and several pistol hosts but most are used on my rifles.
 
Fred said:
The CGS Mod9 is supposed to be very quiet and have good balance on a handgun because only the blast baffle is steel, the rest aluminum.
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Hey Fred, I have the CGS Mod9. I haven't had anything to compare it to, but I have three hosts and several brands of subsonic ammo to try out. Let me know if you want to meet at DPRC and check it out. I also just got the SilencerCo Omega 300 if you want to check that out.
 
I bought a 9mm can (Liberty something, all Ti) for a sig p226 and that combo functions great, but it’s big and awkward. The can lives life on a 9mm AR pistol and is moved to single shot 38/357 or 300blk single shot rifles from time to time.
 
Fred said:
@BigWaylon I have some FD-258 Revision 5-5-17 cards, and there's a new revision out. I've ordered some new ones, but do you know if the ATF will still accept these? I'm planning on mailing in my fingerprints with the cover letter for now. It looks like any regular ink pad is good enough.

What don't you like about Surefire/RC2s? I'm getting close to buying one.
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I would think they’d take them. I’d have to believe there are thousands of them on shelves in gun stores and various other LEO offices around the country.

I just find them overpriced for the market. And louder than most.
 
TRaGiK said:
The only time my suppressed pistol comes out is for other people to shoot. I rarely shoot it for my own enjoyment.
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That's an interesting take. I shoot my suppressed handguns way more than rifles. Handguns are generally much easier to keep subsonic and therefore really quiet. The only rifle I regularly shoot with a can , is the 300BO (for the same reason).
 
JohnFreeman said:
That's an interesting take. I shoot my suppressed handguns way more than rifles. Handguns are generally much easier to keep subsonic and therefore really quiet. The only rifle I regularly shoot with a can , is the 300BO (for the same reason).
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When I need quiet, I grab the CZ Scorpion. Just as quiet as my handgun and easier to make accurate shots with.
 
I'm thinking about getting three suppressors. .308 bolt gun, 9mm pcc, .22 rifle
I'm married with no kids. When I'm gone I don't want her in a jam because she didn't get around to emptying the safe.
How many trusts are needed?
Does it make sense to buy the suppressors all at the same time, or does that throw flags like multiple handguns in the same month?
 
Timfoilhat said:
I'm thinking about getting three suppressors. .308 bolt gun, 9mm pcc, .22 rifle
I'm married with no kids. When I'm gone I don't want her in a jam because she didn't get around to emptying the safe.
How many trusts are needed?
Does it make sense to buy the suppressors all at the same time, or does that throw flags like multiple handguns in the same month?
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If you put one suppressor per trust, it makes it much easier to transfer ownership in the future (presuming that multiple people purchase them from your estate).
 
How many are needed? None.

You could do it with one, or three…or I guess two if you felt like it.

No issue with multiples.
 
Fred said:
I am going to get two .22 cans so I can dedicate one to a gun and swap the other around.

I'd like to cut down a CMMG dedicated .22 barrel to 5 or so inches so I can run bulk ammo at subsonic velocities with a standard SBRed AR lower. When mounting a .22 can under an AR15 rail, will the threads carbon lock and leave the rear mount/end cap on the gun when I try to unscrew it?

If so is there a .22 can that avoids this? The Mask, Nyx Mod 1, Takedown .22 all have removable rear caps. The Occulus has a fixed rear mount, but then it's a modular can with a middle section that can still unscrew, so it doesn't avoid this problem, right? If the answer is to get an AR15 rail that can easily be removed, that might be the way to go.

Has anyone used a HUXWRX Flow 556k?
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This is the only situation where I’d include a SiCo Sparrow on the “to be considered” list. And rather than retyping, I have several options/examples in this thread:

Ruger 22/45 or Browning Buckmark?

Good day Fellers and Fellettes, How is Ruger 22/45 overall? Are there common failure points? Any MUST HAVE mods? Any feedback, or good/bad memories with it? Anything to look out for? And what is a fair price these days on used market? Would like to get one for the range, and trying my friend's...
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com

The post that the link should open to, and then more between there and the end of the thread. At least a half-dozen options.
 
I’ve never sent more than two cards, regardless of the number of forms I submitted. Never been an issue.
 
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