USA AK??

Tucci454

Tucci454

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It's been asked 100 times, I know.

I want an AK. I'd like an actual comm bloc rifle, but that's unrealistic. Watching the reviews of the newer K-USA stuff and the latest gen PSA crap, I'm tempted to go that route. After all, a few years ago WASRs were considered crap and now they have somehow achieved God status...

Who's got a US rifle that they've put some rounds down the pipe? What do you think?
 
PSA = lifetime warranty (and a better chance over K-USA that you'll need it)

K-USA = more faithful clones but a but pricier and fewer model options.

I've owned rifles from both companies and either will scratch your initial AK itch. The newer PSAK models are "better" than previous GF series guns with regards to QC. Overall, the hardcore AK community seems to rank K-USA a little higher. I'd agree.

Do you have any AK mags, ammo, or accessories? How much do you want to invest into all of this? If you're considering any AK you should also be budgeting for quality mags, ammo, and whatever optics and/or aftermarket parts you dig. Just know that if you go the USA-made route, you're more than likely going to lose some money if you divest of it. In my experience it is almost universally the opposite with combloc guns.

Also, I'd hardly consider a WASR crap or Creator - more like the Corolla of AKs. WASRs were bountiful before a lot of the "luxury" Kalashnikov offerings were super popular, super rare, or super expensive. They were the PSAs of their time - simple, affordable, and easy for folks to introduce themselves to the AK world. They just happened to be made in a more appealing place. Look around a little bit and you should be able to find a used but not abused combloc gun for the same price or even less than an American AK. And that would 100% be my suggestion for route to take.
 
I don't have a US made one. I have a Zastava Z PAP which can be purchased at a price close to the US versions. Youtube has some videos posted by AK Operators Union. They review different ones to give you an idea.
 
I have imports as well as modern US made.
I have a Kalashnikov USA and a Palmetto state armory in the US category. Early US rifles were hit and miss, but took a chance on a 3rd Gen AK pistol from PSA. I bought it used from a buddy that we shoot rifle matches with. It has been nothing short of outstanding- every bit as reliable as any AK and accurate too. The KUSA is nice as well, but you pay a little more. A lot of people like to downplay the quality of US built AKs , but I can tell you I’ve never seen any issues from our guns, our friends guns, or any rifles at matches from any rifles built in the last few years.
My daughter is super into AKs and we shoot 3-4 matches every month and have for the last 3 years - we work as range safety officers and shoot more than most people we know. At times we have shared these at matches and that PSA gets so hot we have to wear gloves because we are shooting it back to back. We put over 1200 rounds per month into various berms in NC and SC at matches. If you want to shoot American made AKs shoot me a PM I’ll invite you to one of our matches or for a practice training day.
This isn’t directed at any one person on this page , but at a certain type of person that only the super collectible stuff is good enough for me crowd. Most of those guys (not all) but most do not shoot any volume of ammo - they will brag about the 10k of rounds they shoot , but the reality is their rifle only comes out of the safe for occasional shooting and mostly photos to post and brag about how good their rifle is. If you press them , they will say stuff like “it’s to valuable to run rough” they always have excuses why they cannot come to a match or a practice day
Not everyone needs a $2000 AK , it’s nice if you can afford it but don’t feel like you have to spend that much to get something that works . Once you learn some basic armorer skills it’s not hard to tune triggers to run really well. Some imported mags also take some minor fitting and tuning. Mounting optics has gotten much easier and plenty of furniture options today.
 
I’ve owned 2 PSA AKs. Their GF3 AK-47 and their Gen 1 AK-74. I haven’t had a single issue with either, and I hate to say this, but the finish is better than that of my Arsenal SLR-104FR. Just stay away from cast trunnions and cast parts in general. Not much of a difference between Nitrided barrels and Chrome-lined unless you’re shooting corrosive ammo. The only reason to go imported would be for the collector’s/ resale value. If you’re looking for a reliable work horse that you’re not going to sell, I’d go with the PSA AK-103.
 
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I have a Century C39 Gen 1. It’s a milled receiver.
It runs like a top, is surprisingly accurate, and actually has a fairly decent trigger.
It must have been built on a Tuesday-Thursday!
I like it but maybe I just don’t know what a good, imported AK is supposed to feel like.
I have owned a few WASR’s but never really cared for them.9A1557D4-6D21-434D-B382-087AD81D86A2.jpegE41052D1-528A-48B8-96F8-57FC8A70D0E0.jpeg
 
You have so many good imported options, IDK why you would opt for a US made. PSA is "cheap" - but, is that what you want when you could drop a couple hundred more for an import? Off the top of my head...

WASR
Zastava ZPAP M92
Zastava M70
WBP Fox
WBP Jack / Mini Jack
Draco

Even Arsenal SGL's can be had for an inflated but "decent" price if you look around. KUSA seems solid but I'd still opt for a WBP in the same price range.
 
Also, AK files is probably the best place to buy, sell, and trade anything AK related. If you decide that AKs aren’t for you, you’ll have a much better chance of getting your money back or even turning a profit on AK files. Most of the vendors are out of state, so pay attention to feedback stats when dealing with anyone in order to not get scammed.
 
Lots of good stuff here, thanks. I'm trying to stay around $1k for the rifle, I guess. Although that seems stupid high for an AK.

I haven't seen much to write home about on AKfiles recently.
 
Tucci454 said:
Lots of good stuff here, thanks. I'm trying to stay around $1k for the rifle, I guess. Although that seems stupid high for an AK.

I haven't seen much to write home about on AKfiles recently.
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It's all relative. $1k in this market ain't bad but you can find better used deals. I'm a big fan of my M92 but by the time you add a CNC Warrior brace, maybe change the rear sight to a peep cause krink sights suck, add a better grip, Ultimal for a light or a lower HG...you get in pretty deep. Same with any AK. Accessories tend to be more than what you'd pay for an AR.
 
I love my Veprs, but now too expensive to buy. I have no issue with WASRs either, the closest to a Russian version AKM from a components viewpoint, for a lot cheaper. I also have a K-USA KR-9 that I love shooting in USPSA PCC class, no issues at all with it, fun rifle!
 
lubomir20 said:
Also, AK files is probably the best place to buy, sell, and trade anything AK related. If you decide that AKs aren’t for you, you’ll have a much better chance of getting your money back or even turning a profit on AK files.
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Respectfully, I would disagree. The Files is probably the worst place to try and sell a used PSA, Riley, or other US-made AK. PSA in particular has a terrible reputation over there, one that I'd argue is pretty well earned.

The Files marketplace is awesome, but Filers are shrewd and know what their (and others') stuff is worth, so it is tough to find steals. You'll also get absolutely obliterated in the Basement if you try to overprice just about anything in a WTS ad, especially if it's a PSA.

American AKs are bad investments. Fun to shoot? Sure. But don't expect to profit off one, especially if it is used.
 
Tucci454 said:
this is interesting....

palmettostatearmory.com

PSAK-47 GF5-R Underfolder Romanian Kit Build with PSA Nutmeg Upper and Lower Handguard

Caliber: 7.62x39mm Model: PSAK-47 GF5-R Barrel Length: 16" Thread Pitch: M14x1LH Barrel Twist Rate: 1:9.5" Barrel Material: FN Cold Hammer Forged Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Barrel; Chrome Lined Front Trunnion: Romanian Front Trunnion Bolt: Hammer Forged Carrier: Hammer Forged Fire Control Group...
palmettostatearmory.com palmettostatearmory.com
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Pardon my memory if this has been addressed in other threads, but have you ever shot a UF? Generally, I don't recommend them for first AKs. They are quite polarizing, with some folks loving them and others hating them. Also, note the angle of Romy underfolders is lower than straight-back Yugo folders, which can make a proper cheek weld harder to obtain.

As I and others have pointed out, for ~$1,000 (plus any applicable tax, shipping, and transfer fees) you might as well get a Polish WBP or Yugo/Serbian Zastava. PSA's Romy kits seem preferable to its American offerings, but if it were me I'd still far prefer a factory import over an American kit build.

Also, don't forget those mags and ammo.
 
In the current climate it's worth it to splurge a bit on something you know is gonna serve you well in the long run. I've seen far too many horror stories from PSA to recommend them. Companies like KUSA make great AK's, and I have several.

That said, you don't have to spend a lot to get quality. WASR's are the honda civic of the AK market and they'll treat you well. There's a full auto rental joint out in vegas whose name escapes me that's recording 80k+ round lifespans from their post-sample WASR's, which is more than most people will shoot in their lifetimes. Ironically enough it's barrel erosion that does most of em in. But since they're so cheap, it's more cost effective to simply buy and convert a new one. It's likely that they could go on for longer.

For what it's worth, I've never seen a wasr die from anything besides cracked firing pins - an easy fix. I've seen PSA's pop trunnions after less than 500 rounds, which is generally fatal.
 
IUHoosier429 said:
Pardon my memory if this has been addressed in other threads, but have you ever shot a UF? Generally, I don't recommend them for first AKs. They are quite polarizing, with some folks loving them and others hating them. Also, note the angle of Romy underfolders is lower than straight-back Yugo folders, which can make a proper cheek weld harder to obtain.

As I and others have pointed out, for ~$1,000 (plus any applicable tax, shipping, and transfer fees) you might as well get a Polish WBP or Yugo/Serbian Zastava. PSA's Romy kits seem preferable to its American offerings, but if it were me I'd still far prefer a factory import over an American kit build.

Also, don't forget those mags and ammo.
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I don't know, hence this thread. I've read about Zastava issues. AS far as a WBP goes, I hadn't heard of it. I did a quick search and all I come up with is parts kits.
Mags seem to be affordable, and I already have a crap ton of 7.62x39 as I have an SKS and a AR chambered in the caliber to try to take the place of the AK that's missing from my life. HAHA!
 
PK_ said:
In the current climate it's worth it to splurge a bit on something you know is gonna serve you well in the long run. I've seen far too many horror stories from PSA to recommend them. Companies like KUSA make great AK's, and I have several.

That said, you don't have to spend a lot to get quality. WASR's are the honda civic of the AK market and they'll treat you well. There's a full auto rental joint out in vegas whose name escapes me that's recording 80k+ round lifespans from their post-sample WASR's, which is more than most people will shoot in their lifetimes. Ironically enough it's barrel erosion that does most of em in. But since they're so cheap, it's more cost effective to simply buy and convert a new one. It's likely that they could go on for longer.

For what it's worth, I've never seen a wasr die from anything besides cracked firing pins - an easy fix. I've seen PSA's pop trunnions after less than 500 rounds, which is generally fatal.
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I know the joint you mean. That's one of the reasons I'm conflicted. Just a few short years ago, WASRs were considered garbage rifles. Did that have more to do with the reputation of the importer rather than the rifle itself? Maybe.

ETA: right now you have to spend a lot to get a rifle of questionable quality,
in comparison....
 
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Tucci454 said:
I know the joint you mean. That's one of the reasons I'm conflicted. Just a few short years ago, WASRs were considered garbage rifles. Did that have more to do with the reputation of the importer rather than the rifle itself? Maybe.

ETA: right now you have to spend a lot to get a rifle of questionable quality,
in comparison....
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The sad reality is they were only considered garbage cause at the time they cost $479 and you could get a used Arsenal or a solid kit build for a $200-300 more. Obviously you'd want to go with the nicer rifle. The only reason to settle for a wasr was if you were completely destitute. Sadly the AK market isn't the same anymore. Everything's gone up.

That aside, wasrs are still pretty okay. QC is generally good, and they perform as expected. A good many have canted bits, but it's very rarely severe enough to cause any issues. I have a wasr, sar-1, draco, and an AES10B. All of them are solid rifles. They function exactly as one would expect. They're generally accurate enough to hit whatever I'm trying to shoot, and they go bang whenever I pull the trigger. No complaints whatsoever.
 
WASRs started out being made from surplus parts kits hence the canted sights issue sometimes seen. Had one of those. The new ones are straight from the Cugir factory and are perfectly fine. Myself I picked a VSKA, yes the very early ones had issues but this is current production.
 
So am I.O. AK isn’t a great idea? LGS has a used one with a SPARC and a couple mags for $650ish.
 
Mathieu18 said:
So am I.O. AK isn’t a great idea? LGS has a used one with a SPARC and a couple mags for $650ish.
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IO is bottom of the barrel and their AK's were ultimately discontinued due to the company's financial inability to keep up with warranty claims. They are the absolute worst of the worst. Get one of the Romanian import WASR-10's for $775 or so.
 
PK_ said:
IO is bottom of the barrel and their AK's were ultimately discontinued due to the company's financial inability to keep up with warranty claims. They are the absolute worst of the worst. Get one of the Romanian import WASR-10's for $775 or so.
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That’d explain the price. Probably need to stop going to that LGS. Thanks.
 
Dstrbdmedic167 said:
PSA or Riley Defense would be my recommendations.
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Riley defense is known to have issues with soft trunnions, bad rivets, and bad headspace. Avoid them like the plague.

PSA has gotten a bit better since their initial dumpster fire of a line of AK rifles, but I still regard them as being lesser in quality than a Romanian WASR. I got a full set of Zenitco furniture about a year ago because the guy's PSA was completely out of spec and he was unable to use it. The main selling point of PSA is they're cheap and come with a few extra bells and whistles like folding stocks.

The only genuinely good american made mass produced American made AK's I've seen are made by KUSA. Those rifles are smooth, accurate, and most importantly their trunnioms aren't made of soft mystery meat. They will perform better and hold up to round counts higher than virtually any other American made AK.
 
The one I had as well as my buddies is/were solid. Shot smooth. Trunions were solid and sights were straight.

I don’t disagree with the rest of your statement. Just going off my personal experience I had no issues nor has the other close friend I know that has a Riley.
 
Are there any kr103sf owners in the hive? If so, what are your thoughts?
 
Mathieu18 said:
So am I.O. AK isn’t a great idea? LGS has a used one with a SPARC and a couple mags for $650ish.
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For what little it's worth I had one and had no issues at all with it. Guess I got lucky.
 
Overall thoughts on PSA K-USA, Zastava, Arsenal & kit builds I've gone through over the years

PSA
-- GF2 I dumped b/c a buddy wanted it -- never had issues over about 1k rounds -- def was tinny feeling but overall to get into AK's not knowing any better I guess I lucked out
-- GF3 much more solid still some "rattling" bits but TDI handguard w/ BCM vertical grip & FIME trigger -- that thing is a runs very nice & no issues w/ any ammo, mags (even Korea surplus) IMO good buy for the price just make it yours
-- RPK Romy Build -- bought this b/c why not -- it's fun -- lighter shooting b/c it's massive - practicality 100%
-- AK-P - meh imo it's too short for a 7.62, solid but not my style -- exact same build quality as the GF3 but it does have a railed dust cover which is a nice touch

K-USA
- KR-103 - this thing is amazing, stock trigger well above any standard trigger you'll find in domestic AKs smooth shooting handles anything you throw at it -- for the money being what $200ish more than the PSA 103 it's really nice -- one of my favorites to shoot - that 74 style muzzle break really does wonders

Zastava
- m70 1.5mm - it's a yugo style build that feels different then the AKM pattern if you've held one - above avg trigger -- dollar for dollar at around 799 when I bought it you can't beat it esp w/ the chrome lined barrel -- if you'd want to change the furniture good luck and bust out the checkbook b/c it's not a dime a dozen. Most of it is custom made here -- guy out of STL does nice work - Kalashnicarver Customs
- m90 (223/556)- flat shooting beauty - furniture package is good houge front and zhukov folding stock (adj length of pull) -- longer barrel than a normal 16.3 AK at I think 18 -- very accurate even w/ 55 gr 223 - mags are a PITA to find and expensive but love it

Arsenal
-Sam5 (223/556)-- lead weight -- that milled receiver is noticeable for sure -- also since it's milled the feel is different on the stock by just a little not as much as a YUGO pattern IMO just b/c that stock flows downward due to the double tang -- but I mean you're not gonna find a finer build out there -- got this when they shut down russian ammo imports (ya I know panic) but overall wouldn't trade this -- it's a sewing machine

CW Gunwerks Builds
- Sidefolder & Underfolder ~1960/70ish builds from Izzy other various sources -- both are matching numbers all the way to the spring - JUST DO IT - watch their IG they post "available" a lot -- when I got in on them they were around 1.3-1.6 depending on the rear trunnion - built on childers receivers really can't go wrong - fit and finish are second to none -- the side folder I have the ALG enhanced in and -- it's beautiful


If you were to say only get 1 today -- IMO KR-103 at 1200 on sale through various sources like Atlantic Firearms is hard to beat -- I would suggest either changing the furniture if you get the wood -- it's super smooth and kinda feels like a end table - quality is great but gripping power lacks
 
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