Wake County Sheriff denies handgun purchase permit

AlWie

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Friend of mine was denied a purchase permit this past week because of a pending moving vehicle violation. The sheriff states in the denial that because of pending ticket the ... “Sheriff Not satisfied as to the good moral character of the applicant”. Amazing .... a driving ticket is now grounds for denying a person a constitutional right.
 
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Friend of my was denied a purchase permit this past week because of a pending moving vehicle violation. The sheriff states in the denial that because of pending ticket the ... “Sheriff Not satisfied as to the good moral character of the applicant”. Amazing .... a driving ticket is now grounds for denying a person a constitutional right.

What was the actual ticket for? I mean driving ticket could be DWI,Felony speeding to elude or not stopping at a stop sign. So yes they do make a difference.
 
What was the actual ticket for? I mean driving ticket could be DWI,Felony speeding to elude or not stopping at a stop sign. So yes they do make a difference.
Of course if pending there's still that pesky "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

Baker is not our friend. And he has proved that he will use any excuse to obstruct the liberties of the peasants in his forest. Until proven legit, I call shenanigans.
 
Same rules as a 4473. If the moving violation is a misdemeanor that could carry a 1 year or more jail sentence he is excluded from purchasing until it is settled. Does not matter if it results in a 6 mo sentence if it could have a 12 mo sentence it still is a denial. So really need to know what the ticket is for. But knowing Baker and Wake County he is being a dick.
 
Of course if pending there's still that pesky "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

Baker is not our friend. And he has proved that he will use any excuse to obstruct the liberties of the peasants in his forest. Until proven legit, I call shenanigans.

Lets just say some one had a felony Traffic charge pending. Would the sheriff be better off to say let's see where this goes first or give it to him then track him down after a felony conviction and charge him with possession of firearm by felon? I understand innocent till proven guilty but that's not exactly how the statute on Ccw,pistol permits are written. We all know it's not how that works for us petulant gun owners.
 
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What was the actual ticket for? I mean driving ticket could be DWI,Felony speeding to elude or not stopping at a stop sign. So yes they do make a difference.
Aggressive driving GS 20-141.6 a Class 1 misdemeanor offense. My friend is an attorney and is planning on appealing to Superior Court. Max sentence .... seems to be 120 of active, intermediate or community punishment.
 
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Aggressive driving. My friend is an attorney and is planning on appealing to the Superior Court

Well that would be a mistake because the appeal would go to district court first for appealing the denial that is. The aggressive diving appealing to superior court is just kind of stupid. Being that right now the State is so far behind on trials due to the virus. He might get a permit 2022 if he waits for a trial.
 
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Happened to 2 people I know under the old Baker. Speeding tickets initially kept them from getting a PP. I guess it ages off your record. The 1 friend kept trying for a couple yrs and finally got a PP.
 
As an Officer of the Court, an attorney is of good moral character. I think he will get his permit on appeal.
 
Appeal from Denial of a Permit
There is no statutory time limit on an applicant’s right to appeal a sheriff’s denial of a permit. In practice, most appeals follow closely on the heels of a denial, but an applicant occasionally appeals a denial that took place years earlier.
Procedurally, an applicant may initiate an appeal by filing a petition with the clerk. After col- lecting the filing fee, currently $150, the clerk should establish a civil district court (CVD) case file.14 In some districts, the chief district court judge handles all appeals of this kind. Nothing in the statute so requires, however, and it would be permissible to assign the cases to another district court judge or judges.15
The relevant statute provides little detail about how the appeal should proceed, stating only that it shall be “upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff’s refusal.”16 How- ever, any procedure likely must satisfy the demands of due process. Because North Carolina is a “shall issue” state, eligible applicants probably have a liberty or property interest in the issuance of a concealed carry permit.17

Due process is a flexible concept.18 Although the appellate courts have sometimes stated that due process requires a “hearing,”19 they have also stated that “the exact nature and mecha- nism of the required [hearing] will vary based upon the unique circumstances surrounding the controversy.”20
In practice, many judges start the appeal process by requesting information in writing from the sheriff about the reason for the denial and giving the applicant an opportunity to submit information in writing that undercuts the sheriff’s justification. In some districts, the clerk keeps all concealed handgun permit appeal files confidential, perhaps based on the provi-
sion in G.S. 14-415.17 that “the list of permit holders and the information collected by the sheriff to process an application for a permit are confidential and are not a public record under G.S. 132-1.”21 However, it is not clear that G.S. 14-415.17 covers appeal files, for three reasons. First, the statute appears to address information in the custody of the sheriff and may not reach the same information in the custody of the courts. Second, appeal files concern people who were denied permits, not “permit holders.” Third, while such files may include “information collected
interest and stating, “[w]hether the statute creates a property interest in concealed weapons licenses depends largely upon the extent to which the statute contains mandatory language that restricts the discretion of the [issuing authority] to deny licenses to applicants who claim to meet the minimum eligi- bility requirements”); King v. Wyoming Div. of Criminal Investigation, 89 P.3d 341 (Wyo. 2004) (hold- ing that an applicant had no protected property interest in obtaining a concealed weapon permit; while Wyo. Stat. Ann. § 6-8-104 includes the phrase “shall issue,” the court emphasized that the statute gives officials considerable discretion to deny a permit if law enforcement officers provide reasonable grounds to believe that the applicant “has been or is reasonably likely to be a danger to himself or others, or to the community at large”); Mosby v. Devine, 851 A.2d 1031 (R.I. 2004) (“ecause the statute under consid- eration vests the Attorney General with discretion to refuse a license even if a person makes ‘a proper showing of need,’ we are of the opinion that it has no impact on any constitutionally protected liberty interest.”); Nichols v. Cnty. of Santa Clara, 223 Cal. App. 3d 1236 (Cal. Ct. App. 2d Dist. 1990) (“In light of [California’s concealed carry] statute’s delegation of such broad discretion to the sheriff, it is well-estab- lished that an applicant for a license to carry a concealed firearm has no legitimate claim of entitlement to it under state law, and therefore has no ‘property’ interest to be protected by the due process clause
of the United States Constitution.”). In shall-issue states, by contrast, courts generally have ruled that eligible applicants do have a property right in the issuance of a permit. See, e.g., Caba v. Weaknecht, 64 A.3d 39 (Pa. Comm. Ct. 2013) (reviewing case law and concluding that a permit holder “was entitled to procedural due process protections when the Sheriff revoked his license”).
18. Mathews v. Eldridge, 424 U.S. 319 (1976) (so noting, and stating that “identification of the specific dictates of due process generally requires consideration of three distinct factors: first, the private inter- est that will be affected by the official action; second, the risk of an erroneous deprivation of such inter- est through the procedures used, and the probable value, if any, of additional or substitute procedural safeguards; and, finally, the Government’s interest, including the function involved and the fiscal and administrative burdens that the additional or substitute procedural requirement would entail”).
19. See, e.g., In re Gupton, 238 N.C. 303 (1953) (“The law of the land clause embodied in Article
I, Section 17, of the North Carolina Constitution guarantees to the litigant in every kind of judicial proceeding the right to an adequate and fair hearing before he can be deprived of his claim or defense by judicial decree,” including the right to “be apprised of all the evidence received by the court and given an opportunity to test, explain, or rebut it.”).
20. Peace v. Emp’t Sec. Comm’n of North Carolina, 349 N.C. 315 (1998).
21. It is not clear whether the statute contemplates the information collected by the sheriff remaining confidential once an appeal has been filed. And the statute does not provide for the confidentiality of any information submitted to the court by an appellant. Therefore, a case-by-case sealing determination may be better than a blanket policy of confidentiality.
 
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Part 2
by the sheriff to process an application,” they may also include other information, such as infor- mation submitted by the appellant and never considered by the sheriff. The additional informa- tion may be sensitive (such as medical or mental health records) or not (such as affidavits vouch- ing for the good character of the applicant). One possible approach would be to have a local rule or standing order that provides for the automatic sealing of information collected by the sheriff in connection with the initial application but allows the decision as to whether to seal any other submissions to be made on a case-by-case basis through motions to seal.22 Other procedures are possible, and judges and clerks may wish to discuss how to handle filings in permit appeals con- sistent with clerks’ obligations to follow the Rules of Recordkeeping promulgated by the Admin- istrative Office of the Courts.23
Some judges decide the appeals in chambers based on the written submissions, while other judges calendar these cases for in-court hearings. Based on the author’s communication with
a number of district court judges, it seems that most judges do not routinely conduct eviden- tiary hearings, though some may allow evidence to be presented in some instances. A cautious middle ground might be to decide whether to calendar a case for an in-court hearing—and if
so, whether to allow the presentation of evidence—after reviewing the written materials. Some cases may be dependent “upon the facts” and may present disputed issues that would be difficult to resolve fairly without a hearing, such as cases that involve multiple witness statements. Cases from other states are divided regarding what kind of hearing is required.24
Judges who choose to hold a hearing often invite an employee of the sheriff to be present to explain the basis for the denial. At hearings that are more formal, more adversarial, and more
22. Courts in North Carolina have the inherent authority to order court files sealed, see Virmani
v. Presbyterian Health Services Corp., 350 N.C. 449 (1999), though they may do so only when necessary to “preserve higher values,” and even then, any sealing order must be narrowly tailored and supported by findings of fact, In re Investigation into Death of Cooper, 200 N.C. App. 180 (2009).
23. See generally G.S. 7A-109(a).
24. Compare In re Dubov, 981 A.2d 87 (N.J. Super. App. Div. 2009) (police chief denied handgun pur- chase permit, apparently because the applicant’s references were not supportive; the applicant appealed to superior court, which held a hearing; “[h]owever, the court did not hear testimony . . . by the appellant, the Chief of Police, police officers who investigated and forwarded reports to the Chief, or other wit- nesses who furnished information that influenced the denial. Instead, the court considered the appeal based solely on documentary evidence, including letters from two of appellant’s references and the report of his psychiatrist. The court also considered factual representations set forth in the County Prosecu- tor’s brief regarding [a reference’s] negative comments about appellant’s fitness to own a gun”; six months later, the judge affirmed the denial, relying in part on a letter the judge had received after the hearing by someone who knew the applicant and did not think he should have a gun; this “did not conform with the requirements of procedural due process” as set forth in Weston v. New Jersey, 286 A.2d 43 (1972); “the informality of a chief of police’s initial consideration of an application for a gun permit requires an evi- dentiary hearing when an applicant appeals a denial”; therefore, the matter was remanded for an eviden- tiary hearing, albeit a somewhat informal one at which the rules of evidence do not apply), with Dlugosz v. Scarano, 681 N.Y.S.2d 120 (N.Y. Supr. Ct. App. Div. 1998) (a county judge revoked a man’s pistol permit based on his “general course of conduct,” including being charged with several crimes; the judge “denied petitioner’s . . . request for a formal hearing, but agreed to review any . . . materials petitioner chose to submit,” and the man submitted a letter explaining his various arrests; on subsequent appeal, the review- ing court stated: “We reject petitioner’s contention that respondent erred in not conducting an eviden- tiary hearing before rendering a determination. It is well settled that a formal hearing is not required prior to the revocation of a pistol permit as long as the licensee is given notice of the charges and has an adequate opportunity to submit proof in response.”).
© 2016 School of Government. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Gun Permit Appeals 5
evidentiary, this procedure may raise questions about the unauthorized practice of law. It may be better for an attorney to represent the sheriff at such hearings.
The statute does not expressly provide a standard of review, such as abuse of discretion or plain error. The closest it comes is its reference to “the reasonableness of the sheriff’s refusal.” If reversing the sheriff’s denial requires a finding that the sheriff acted unreasonably, the statute may call for some deference to the sheriff’s decision.
According to the statute, the decision by the district court judge “shall be final.” Thus, there is no clear path for a further appeal. A motion for relief from judgment or an extraordinary writ of some kind could potentially provide a vehicle for further review in some cases.
 
I would suggest changing the game a little. Go to the DA and ask that the ticket be dismissed or settled rather than waiting. Might get that done in a few days or a week, then ask Baker to reconsider.
 
Aggressive driving GS 20-141.6 a Class 1 misdemeanor offense. My friend is an attorney and is planning on appealing to Superior Court. Max sentence .... seems to be 120 of active, intermediate or community punishment.

I could see not giving someone a permit under their guidelines with this charge. I wonder what the other charges were with it since the person must commit 2 of the posted subsection to be charged with this offense. The few times I have seen this charged it is usually a road rage incident.

§ 20-141.6. Aggressive Driving.
(a) Any person who operates a motor vehicle on a street, highway, or public vehicular area is guilty of aggressive driving if the person:
(1) Violates either G.S. 20-141 or G.S. 20-141.1, and
(2) Drives carelessly and heedlessly in willful or wanton disregard of the rights
or safety of others.
(b) For the purposes of this section only, in order to prove a violation of subsection
(a)(2), the State must show that the person committed two or more of the below specified offenses while in violation of subsection (a)(1):
(1) Running through a red light in violation of G.S. 20-158(b)(2) or (b)(3), or G.S. 20-158(c)(2) or (c)(3).
(2) Running through a stop sign in violation of G.S. 20-158(b)(1) or (c)(1).
(3) Illegal passing in violation of G.S. 20-149 or G.S. 20-150.
(4) Failing to yield right-of-way in violation of G.S. 20-155, 20-156,
20-158(b)(4) or (c)(4) or 20-158.1.
(5) Following too closely in violation of G.S. 20-152.
(c) A person convicted of aggressive driving is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
(d) The offense of reckless driving under G.S. 20-140 is a lesser-included offense of the offense set forth in this section. (2004-193, s. 1.)
G.S. 20-141.6 Page 1
 
Part 2
by the sheriff to process an application,” they may also include other information, such as infor- mation submitted by the appellant and never considered by the sheriff. The additional informa- tion may be sensitive (such as medical or mental health records) or not (such as affidavits vouch- ing for the good character of the applicant). One possible approach would be to have a local rule or standing order that provides for the automatic sealing of information collected by the sheriff in connection with the initial application but allows the decision as to whether to seal any other submissions to be made on a case-by-case basis through motions to seal.22 Other procedures are possible, and judges and clerks may wish to discuss how to handle filings in permit appeals con- sistent with clerks’ obligations to follow the Rules of Recordkeeping promulgated by the Admin- istrative Office of the Courts.23
Some judges decide the appeals in chambers based on the written submissions, while other judges calendar these cases for in-court hearings. Based on the author’s communication with
a number of district court judges, it seems that most judges do not routinely conduct eviden- tiary hearings, though some may allow evidence to be presented in some instances. A cautious middle ground might be to decide whether to calendar a case for an in-court hearing—and if
so, whether to allow the presentation of evidence—after reviewing the written materials. Some cases may be dependent “upon the facts” and may present disputed issues that would be difficult to resolve fairly without a hearing, such as cases that involve multiple witness statements. Cases from other states are divided regarding what kind of hearing is required.24
Judges who choose to hold a hearing often invite an employee of the sheriff to be present to explain the basis for the denial. At hearings that are more formal, more adversarial, and more
22. Courts in North Carolina have the inherent authority to order court files sealed, see Virmani
v. Presbyterian Health Services Corp., 350 N.C. 449 (1999), though they may do so only when necessary to “preserve higher values,” and even then, any sealing order must be narrowly tailored and supported by findings of fact, In re Investigation into Death of Cooper, 200 N.C. App. 180 (2009).
23. See generally G.S. 7A-109(a).
24. Compare In re Dubov, 981 A.2d 87 (N.J. Super. App. Div. 2009) (police chief denied handgun pur- chase permit, apparently because the applicant’s references were not supportive; the applicant appealed to superior court, which held a hearing; “[h]owever, the court did not hear testimony . . . by the appellant, the Chief of Police, police officers who investigated and forwarded reports to the Chief, or other wit- nesses who furnished information that influenced the denial. Instead, the court considered the appeal based solely on documentary evidence, including letters from two of appellant’s references and the report of his psychiatrist. The court also considered factual representations set forth in the County Prosecu- tor’s brief regarding [a reference’s] negative comments about appellant’s fitness to own a gun”; six months later, the judge affirmed the denial, relying in part on a letter the judge had received after the hearing by someone who knew the applicant and did not think he should have a gun; this “did not conform with the requirements of procedural due process” as set forth in Weston v. New Jersey, 286 A.2d 43 (1972); “the informality of a chief of police’s initial consideration of an application for a gun permit requires an evi- dentiary hearing when an applicant appeals a denial”; therefore, the matter was remanded for an eviden- tiary hearing, albeit a somewhat informal one at which the rules of evidence do not apply), with Dlugosz v. Scarano, 681 N.Y.S.2d 120 (N.Y. Supr. Ct. App. Div. 1998) (a county judge revoked a man’s pistol permit based on his “general course of conduct,” including being charged with several crimes; the judge “denied petitioner’s . . . request for a formal hearing, but agreed to review any . . . materials petitioner chose to submit,” and the man submitted a letter explaining his various arrests; on subsequent appeal, the review- ing court stated: “We reject petitioner’s contention that respondent erred in not conducting an eviden- tiary hearing before rendering a determination. It is well settled that a formal hearing is not required prior to the revocation of a pistol permit as long as the licensee is given notice of the charges and has an adequate opportunity to submit proof in response.”).
[emoji2398] 2016 School of Government. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Gun Permit Appeals 5
evidentiary, this procedure may raise questions about the unauthorized practice of law. It may be better for an attorney to represent the sheriff at such hearings.
The statute does not expressly provide a standard of review, such as abuse of discretion or plain error. The closest it comes is its reference to “the reasonableness of the sheriff’s refusal.” If reversing the sheriff’s denial requires a finding that the sheriff acted unreasonably, the statute may call for some deference to the sheriff’s decision.
According to the statute, the decision by the district court judge “shall be final.” Thus, there is no clear path for a further appeal. A motion for relief from judgment or an extraordinary writ of some kind could potentially provide a vehicle for further review in some cases.
You're supposed to give a "WoT" warning*...




*Wall of Text

[emoji1787]

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Know a guy who helped build and start up a data center for a government contractor. He applied for job with the contractor once his part of the project was over and could not get security clearance. Ironic and moronic.
 
You know you're getting a deep background check when people you haven't talked to in years call you and tell you someone was around asking about you. :cool:

I remember once when the FBI came asking about someone. The showed me a picture and asked if I knew that person and who I knew them as. I asked how they got a picture of him, because he never let anyone take a picture of him. He just looked at me and said, "We're the FBI."
 
GRNC has been trying for years to get rid of the PPP, but more than a few Republican legislators are hesitant to go against the Sheriffs on this. But Gerald Baker's misbehavior should be enough to convince them that the PPP, especially the "good moral character" clause, is ripe for abuse and should be repealed. Of course, we also have to hold onto both houses in the Legislature and get Dan Forest elected. Cooper would never allow it and if the D's control the Legislature, we'll be busy trying to fight off Virginia style gun control.
 

from your link

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Don’t see it for Wake specifically but Meck county has an info sheet stating superior court also for denials
 
from your link

TejCpMh.jpg



Don’t see it for Wake specifically but Meck county has an info sheet stating superior court also for denials

It may be county specific as well. I know on my county the cdcj handles them all. My wife used to do 4-5 a year for people. Got all but one issued.
 
Slightly off topic, video on youtube of a McLaren driver given a ticket for reckless driving in a 30mph neighborhood, all on video before, during and after, cop lied and his body cam proved he lied, followed car for 10 min. Ticket for 70 in a 30 zone and reckless. All dismissed but the driver he had to pay his lawyer. FOIA for the body camera video.
 
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