Wanna Know Why We Have No Ventilators?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by SPST, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. SPST

    SPST Member

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  2. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Supporting Member

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    Why do I click these stupid links? I always swear I won't do it and then I do. and I always see the same BS!

    There's a headline decrying failure of government, a giant picture of Trump, and an article describing crap that happened during the Obama administration.
     
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  3. Windini

    Windini SWDD Charter Life Member

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    So you can post these follow-ups & save the rest of us the trouble? :)
     
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  4. Mirac

    Mirac Epic Replies ---> Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Yep, CBS got called out on it with an article about NY, with pictures of An Italian hospital.

    The power of suggestion. Hoping the sheep don't read the actual article..
     
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  5. SPST

    SPST Member

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    A clip from the article.

    "Money was budgeted. A federal contract was signed. Work got underway.

    And then things suddenly veered off course. A multibillion-dollar maker of medical devices bought the small California company that had been hired to design the new machines. The project ultimately produced zero"
     
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  6. NoNameHaveI

    NoNameHaveI Well-Known Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Lol that is the majority of the comments on the article as well...yahoo news=Democrats shill
     
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  7. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Supporting Member

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    To be fair there is some important info in there once you get past the propaganda.
     
  8. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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    ...except you...I only kinda love you...
    If you scrape enough of the poop away, there is still some decent undigested corn to be gleaned.
     
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  9. charliesgrave

    charliesgrave cosmoline enthusiast Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    [​IMG]

    Behold the Bird MK 8.
    Most classrooms still have them. They probably cost less than $100 to make, and were used with success for almost 40 years.
    Obviously doesn't have as much control or diagnostic capability as modern vents, but it would work in an emergency.

    [​IMG]
    Here's the one Ford is getting ready to produce. I use one of these weekly and there little to nothing to them. They are completely pneumatic with no electronics, just like the Bird.

    If someone wanted to produce some vents, it's neither expensive or hard.
     
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  10. cold1

    cold1 Member Supporting Member

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    People think stockpiling life saving medical equipment is simple. What they fail to understand, especially on ventilators, is that each piece of equipment must be tested, calibrated, and electrical safety inspected before it can be used on a patient. 10000 vents sitting in storage for years waiting to be used is a tremendous waste. Then the required skilled manpower needed to certify each of those units for patient use is another giant hurdle to overcome before they can be used.

    Stockpiling clinical equipment is not a simple thing.
     
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  11. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Supporting Member

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    I'll bet a liberator style ventilator shows up on the web soon. 3-d printed and Arduino controlled. Wish I had paid attention to this stuff now.
     
  12. cold1

    cold1 Member Supporting Member

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    I serviced a few baby bird vents back in the early 90s. They were simple but they had a precision set of ruby bearings that controlled the rotating valve. Calibrating those things were time consuming.
     
  13. B00ger

    B00ger Bull headed and opinionated but really loves you. Charter Member

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    ...except you...I only kinda love you...
    I saw in an article the other day that Dyson of the Dyson company (vacuums) is making 10,000 for the british government, and he is tossing in another 5,000 out of his own pocket...gotta love those evil capitalists who never think of the little man
     
  14. random

    random Active Member

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    From those I've encountered, they usually don't.
     
  15. gc70

    gc70 Well-Known Member

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    In this case, yahoo news = New York Times reprint.
     
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  16. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Vendor

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    Electrical Safety Inspection for a pneumatic device?
     
  17. Crazy Carl

    Crazy Carl seriously? Life Member

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    In a clinical setting, I believe every single device requiring electricity has to be safety inspected annually. In the lab, even our centrifuges & 'vortexer' plate used to mix reagents require it.
     
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  18. premise

    premise outwardly solipsistic Life Member

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    Worked in engineering in a clinical lab. As Carl says, on top of all the day to day maintenance and validation, every-single-device has to pass routine licensed (re: $$$$) maintenance, calibration, and approval, and it gets a badge and digital and hard entry to prove it, that will be back checked by some certification personnel that could out stickle your mother-in-law. I can remember CLIA agents eating our ass up for having dismantled pipettes with no documentation sitting out in the open.
     
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  19. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    In an emergency would you rather die or use the machine that's not certified six times?
     
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  20. cold1

    cold1 Member Supporting Member

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    If the machine will kill you, do you want to be hooked up to it?
     
  21. cold1

    cold1 Member Supporting Member

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    If it has an electrical component, it must have an electrical safety inspection.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  22. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    Hook me up to a CPAP before just letting me play there and die because a vent isn't available...
     
  23. cold1

    cold1 Member Supporting Member

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    If it's a CPAP in a hospital, it will have an electrical safety inspection sticker on it.
     
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  24. Exile_D

    Exile_D benevolent tyrant Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Now that would be awesome! Of course the safety/certification issues folks have brought up might me tough to address, but still... :cool:
     
  25. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Vendor

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    So, what would an electrical safety inspection actually inspect?
     
  26. OldNascar

    OldNascar Active Member

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    Hook me up to a air compressor if that is the way I'm able to get another hit of oxygen, damn the technicalities.
     
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  27. grungewehr39

    grungewehr39 here to be Happy Supporting Member

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  28. premise

    premise outwardly solipsistic Life Member

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    I get exactly what you are saying, but the better question would be to ask the hospital admin if they would rather have a non-certified piece of equipment out on the floor in direct violation of one of their many accredidation agencies. Threatening bureaucrats by peeling away bureaucracy will always be met with extreme resistance.
     
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  29. charliesgrave

    charliesgrave cosmoline enthusiast Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    Hospitals wont use cpap if they even suspect you're infected.
     
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  30. cold1

    cold1 Member Supporting Member

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    Nothing on that model. Still has to be calibrated and certified for volume, pressure, inhalation, etc.

    It's been close to 30yrs since I touched one, so I'm probably missing a lot. The calibration procedure back then on a baby bird vents took close to 2 hours.
     
  31. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    Assuming I go to a hospital. If they're overrun what's the point? So I can die in secret with no information given to my family? No thanks...
     
  32. OldNascar

    OldNascar Active Member

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    Second hand information so take it for what it's worth, Russia is currently informing the nation to stay at home and call the doctor once you have trouble breathing, A doctor will come to your residence and administer your care on the spot, comfort you at times until you are well or dead, no ventilators. Their form of capitalism in healthcare is a little more harse than our's but the end result is the same. Thank God we have the socialistic form of healthcare for emergencies even if it is too little too late. Maybe by the time the second wave of the disease comes we'll be full bore socialistic, at least until the virus is under control then back to the insurance game and to hell with socialism once more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  33. Jp8819

    Jp8819 Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    This and the fact people in the US like to sue for any chance they can get so they are not going to use something not certified. They would rather blame someone else or not help before opening that can of worms.
     
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  34. wmg819

    wmg819 Member Supporting Member

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    Watching someone's lungs fill with fluid as they basically drown laying in a bed and develop cheyne stokes as well is not fun. Like watching a fish out of water flopping and gasping for air. As much as I agree I'd rather stay at home that's an image I'd rather not leave with my loved ones as to what I looked like when I passed.

    Then there's the issue of having my body removed from the house. Who's to say there won't be incidents like Italy where it could take a day or two for someone to come get me. Either way this will situation suck for some.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  35. Chuckman

    Chuckman Senior Member Sponsor

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    Right now there's a LOT of accreditation standards being held in abeyance until further notice specific to licensure and certifications. I imagine if the crap hits the fan in a surge, they will absolutely use a 'non-certified' piece of equipment.
     
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  36. SCshooter57

    SCshooter57 covfefe Charter Life Member Life Member

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    upload_2020-4-1_10-39-21.png

    Everyone seems to forget how this turned the medical device industry on it's ear.