water storage for the house (when the well fails)

Jayne

Jayne

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In another thread I'm trying to size a generator and a second generator to run out well pump, but even with a dozen power sources we're still relying on the same well and the same pump. If the pump dies, we're screwed.

The well is 80ft deep, so I presume that means we can't use a hand pump.

So what are some other ways to supply water to the house?

The pressure tank lasts for a little bit, but that's not going to last through a day much less a multi-day outage.

We have a 1/3 acre pond, but it's pretty gross with fish and frogs so while it's fine for using to flush the toilets (septic) and boil in an emergency, I would like to think of something else that keeps clean water flowing out of the faucets for a while.

Water tower? Some sort of ground tank with a electric/solar powered pump that could generate pressure? Not to refill the pressure tank but to just directly feed the faucets if we bypassed the tank? A manual pump that could refill the pressure tank?

The barn water is fed from the house so if I solve one problem I've solved them both.
 
Me. said:
What timeframe do you want to prep for?
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2 weeks to start.

Me. said:
How about a deep-well hand point? The pump is in the well, no suction, just push up.
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I didn't know those existed, and damn there are some nice ones out there. The "simple pump" can pressurize the pressure tank too, so go pump for 10 minutes and it's just like the real pump line. That's slick.
 
The problem with water storage is that it will go stale.

I’m kinda in the “stock a spare pump” camp too. 80’ is not very deep and it would not cost much to keep a spare jet pump on hand.
 
Jayne said:
yes, and I've got one but I'm not sure how to use it long term without it getting really gross with algae and whatnot.
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I was storing 100 gallons on a rack in my walkout basement and just rotating every six months was a pain to drain, clean, and refill.
 
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I think every well should have this setup, which I will do to mine one day.

Beside the well, a cistern. The well pump only comes on when the Low level switch trips, and turns off when the High level switch trips. Ideally, the well pump will operate about once a week.

The cistern (which can be any kind of storage tank) gravity feeds the house. A small 12V pump (like in an RV or a boat) pressurizes the bladder tank.

The cistern gravity feeds the greenhouse or anywhere else you wish, bypassing the pressurized bladder tank in the house. If you need higher pressure water, add another small 12V pump and bladder tank, or use the one in the house.

The well and the 12V pumps can run on the grid, or whatever alternative power source you have.
 
I agree with the spare pump, and I also agree with a cistern. I would recommend a cistern that collects rainwater and has solar powered UV treatment.
 
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Those suggesting a spare pump, have you ever pulled a well pump? I like the idea of a spare pump but pulling a pump is not an easy task and certainly not one I would want to tackle by myself. If you know a trick to pull them please share because changing a pump isn't hard but getting it out can be.
 
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spittinfire said:
Those suggesting a spare pump, have you ever pulled a well pump? I like the idea of a spare pump but pulling a pump is not an easy task and certainly not one I would want to tackle by myself. If you know a trick to pull them please share because changing a pump isn't hard but getting it out can be.
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Yes, I’ve pulled both shallow well systems (pump is above ground) as well as 300’ submersibles.

At only 80’, I’m pretty sure that he has a jet pump. They are not as difficult to pull as a submersible.
 
Scsmith42 said:
Yes, I’ve pulled both shallow well systems (pump is above ground) as well as 300’ submersibles.

At only 80’, I’m pretty sure that he has a jet pump. They are not as difficult to pull as a submersible.
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Mine is submersible and 150' down. I had to pull it last year due to a broken wire. The guys that pulled it had a machine to do it and it made quick work of it. I think 2-3 guys could pull it but it would still be a job and there is no way I would attempt to pull it myself.
 
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Likely used an Up-z-dazy if they carried it and set up over the well
 
Scsmith42 said:
At only 80’, I’m pretty sure that he has a jet pump. They are not as difficult to pull as a submersible.
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How do I know?

And apparently I can't read (or prefer to think I just don't remember), it's 67' with the water at 60'. If that vintage 1981 plate is accurate.

IMG_3152.JPG
IMG_3151.JPG
 
Few years ago went to Bermuda where they collect rainwater for long term storage. A few people told us the common method to keep water fresh was a few goldfish in the tank. Seems the fish eat the bad stuff.

Also heard it is common in livestock troughs.

The fish poop... Uhhh dunno.
 
Well, that’s a submersible pump w/o a lot of reserve capacity.

A few different options exist for backup water (Off of the top of my head).

1 - keep a spare submersible pump, wire, pipe and hanging wire on hand.

2 - install a hand pump on the well, with a footvalve and pipe that is separate from your submersible. This will provide water that you can carry in a bucket to refill a toilet tank, etc.

3. Install (or have on hand) a 12V submersible well pump that you can run off of solar, such as this one from Amazon.

Amazon product ASIN B08RMYPMLD
Pumps like this are not designed to work with a pressure tank; instead you will need to install a cistern tank at an elevation suitable for creating adequate water pressure. The pump will work at your depth; it just doesn’t have a high pressure output, but it’s rated for 230’ elevation or so from the water level to the cistern tank.
 
Scsmith42 said:
2 - install a hand pump on the well, with a footvalve and pipe that is separate from your submersible. This will provide water that you can carry in a bucket to refill a toilet tank, etc.
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I'm leaning this way. Having a cold standby pump is nice, but in the middle of some sort of disaster I'm not going to want to have to pull and install a pump. Just way too many things that can go wrong, especially working by myself with makeshift tools. A hand pump I can just test regularly along with the generators and other stuff and if I'm incapacitated in any way during the time it's needed the wife can run a hand pump.
 
That 12V submersible would be less labor intensive to use than a hand pump.... If you just want to fill buckets for water transfer, then no cistern required.
 
Scsmith42 said:
That 12V submersible would be less labor intensive to use than a hand pump.... If you just want to fill buckets for water transfer, then no cistern required.
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I like the idea of filling the pressure tank though, then we don't have to haul buckets to the critters.
 
Then get a spare submersible 120 or 240VAC pump. Neither the hand pump nor the 12V submersible will have the 45 or so psi necessary to refill your current bladder tank.
 
Scsmith42 said:
Then get a spare submersible 120 or 240VAC pump. Neither the hand pump nor the 12V submersible will have the 45 or so psi necessary to refill your current bladder tank.
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I assumed this meant I could pressurize the tank to 30 PSI, and as long as I had a check valve in the system it would stay there:

1678671453081.png
 
Your concern is that you’ll have a pump failure in the same two week window that you have an extended power outage?

Be proactive and replace the 40 year old pump, that’ll take your risk down to almost zero.
Drill a second well and use it for the barn with the ability to switch to one or the other for everything, that’ll take your risk to zero.

The other solutions are fine, but they seem to create additional points of failure.
 
Jayne said:
Or a generator failure, or run out of fuel.
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You should worry about the effect of stress on your health. Otherwise, two is one, one is none.

Propane is even easier to store than diesel.

You’re a handy guy, have you built a solar panel to heat water? There is nothing like nearly unlimited hot water in a crisis, and it’s always good to save fuel.
 
I'm still stuck on the 67' bored well only has 7' of water (per well tag).
The solution for that is20230314_092628.jpg
 
Scsmith42 said:
Yeah, that surprised me too, along with the diameter of the well.
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I'm working on getting someone to come check it out and verify that the current situation matches the plate, or doesn't. Mostly just with water depth.

Then we'll install the manual pump and live happily ever after.
 
If you could find some way to elevate a storage tank of some sort, gravity would be your friend….
20’ of elevation will give you 8.6 PSI, which isn’t much, but would still be sufficient to fill other portable containers
 
xtp308 said:
Pictures of the set up when finished, please.
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I'll document it and share.

Plumber dude was here yesterday, he thinks it's not so crazy of an idea.

Currently he's researching all the necessary steps to figure out what I can do alone and what we'll do together. We may end up pulling the current pump to verify the depth, it's not the original setup so we don't really know what's down there and the previous owners did almost nothing right so everything is an adventure.
 
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