We need to focus more on the 10th Amendment

C

Cachecropp

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We spend so much time worrying about infringement of the 1st and 2nd Amendment and other rights that I’m afraid there’s very little thought given to the 10th Amendment.

The main problem with the constant influx of anti-gun laws, regulations, fees and taxes is that they are coming from a federal government that spends Trillions of our tax dollars to overpower all 50 state governments and control the country. This is not the Constitutional Republic that was intended. Our individual rights were supposed to be the most important aspect of this government, but now they’ve become an afterthought. Even if we win an election here or there for candidates who are committed to protecting individual rights, the gargantuan bureaucracy in DC is still working every day to regulate all facets of life 24/7. I don’t want to go down the Trump rabbit hole, but his 4 years is a case study for what happens when someone has ideas that the Federal bureaucracy does not agree with.

My point here is, to affect change you can’t just elect politicians who say they are Pro-Gun. Politiciams don’t get much done, even if they want to. Congress is basically a stalemate. One example I’ll give you is a statement made by Ron Desantis, Governor of Florida. He said after years in Congress, he realized it was almost impossible to get ANYTHING done in DC. Now that he is a Governor of a state, he can affect change everywhere within that state. To affect meaningful change, the Federal government needs to shrink considerably and the State and Local governments must become at least equal to the Federal government in power.

Anchoring the Bill of Rights is this beautiful text which underlines and emphasizes everything in the Constitution.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

So these regulatory agencies, the EPA, ATF, IRS don’t have authority over the States unless the States grant it to them. There are hundreds of federal agencies. They spend Trillions of our tax dollars each year and put us deeper into debt each year. The only reason they exist is that the states have not challenged them in court. I’m not a lawyer and I’m open to criticism here, but if the Governor of NC wanted to ignore the EPA, for example, citing the 10th amendment, I think the case would have merit. There have been numerous cases over the last 150 years which have paved the way for the Federal government to grow in size and power, so the courts would have to set new legal precedents and it would take time for the transformation to happen. However, I think we have a Supreme Court right now that actually considers the Constitution fully. For example, How could the EPA justify its authority over a state if that state simply said, “the EPA does not have any powers delegated to it by the Constitution and therefore we do not recognize its authority.”?

There would be a ripple effect as 15, 20, maybe even 30 states all challenged the authority of all these hundreds of agencies.
The federal government would shrink in size, lose much of its budget and its sway over the states. We all have much more direct contact with our elected state representatives, so I believe focusing on the 10th Amendment is the best path to protecting everyone’s rights.

P.S. - Biden and Congress are working on a bill right now to, among other things, greatly increase the budget of the IRS and hire hundreds more tax collecting agents. This is their focus in the middle of the worst inflation in 40 years and a recession!
 
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@Cachecropp - even though the attacks on it began as soon as the ink was dry on the Constitution, the 10th amendment was finally destroyed completely between April 1861 and April 1865.

@Diablos - we're probably on the same page with this, you are referring to the misinterpretation and outright mockery of the commerce clause, yes?
 
Cape Fear said:
@Cachecropp - even though the attacks on it began as soon as the ink was dry on the Constitution, the 10th amendment was finally destroyed completely between April 1861 and April 1865.

@Diablos - we're probably on the same page with this, you are referring to the misinterpretation and outright mockery of the commerce clause, yes?
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Are you referring to Collector v. Day? Why couldn’t this be challenged in court? Unless the Constitution is ratified by a Constitutional Convention or Congress, the 10th Amendment is still law.
 
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Chuckman said:
Not 'angry face' at you, 'angry face' that every GD decision the government makes to exclude the states is because of either the commerce clause or 'equal protection' via 14th amendment.
Click to expand...

Just have to add the "necessary and proper" clause to make a threesome.
 
Cachecropp said:
Are you referring to Collector v. Day? Why couldn’t this be challenged in court? Unless the Constitution is ratified by a Constitutional Convention or Congress, the 10th Amendment is still law.
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As to 10A I was referring to the Union's defeat of the Confederacy for attempting the ultimate assertion of state's rights, the ability to withdraw from the union.

The "misinterpretation and outright mockery of the commerce clause" would be Wickard v. Filburn and subsequent rulings in favor of that travesty.

ETA that I agree with your OP, we should not give up the fight and should challenge the expansion of Fed power any way we can. It is an uphill battle but I don't want to be defeatist and give up.
 
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I think some states withdrawing from the Union is still a possibility. The Civil War was a different situation. Although it should only be as a last resort. We’re better off together. No government is perfect and no document has done more for the prosperity and freedom of people than the Constitution. We should fight to enforce the Constitution as it is written.

P.S. - I recently visited the Lincoln Memorial and downstairs in a a room off to the side are some of the letters Lincoln wrote, displayed on a wall. He repeatedly told people, while he wanted to abolish slavery, the whole point of the war was keeping the Union together. He said if he had to choose between the two, he would rather keep the Union together than abolish slavery. He trusted we would end slavery soon anway. The Union was the most important. Just thought that was interesting.
 
Cachecropp said:
P.S. - I recently visited the Lincoln Memorial and downstairs in a a room off to the side are some of the letters Lincoln wrote, displayed on a wall. He repeatedly told people, while he wanted to abolish slavery, the whole point of the war was keeping the Union together. He said if he had to choose between the two, he would rather keep the Union together than abolish slavery. He trusted we would end slavery soon anway. The Union was the most important. Just thought that was interesting.
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It is why when I visited the Lincoln memorial, I spit on it. Hundreds of thousands of dead young men, the freedoms of a nation destroyed, an entire sector of the continent ruined for decades... all because of some madman who viewed the Constitution as some kind of roach hotel that you can get into but not out of.

Lincoln was a monster in every sense of the word.
 
As far as the OP goes. I am in both agreement and despair about 10a. I used to talk in here about the ultimate expression of 10a, which is an article 5 convention. The hysteria and hand wringing that we will "lose our freedoms" and will have a "runaway convention" shows me that for all the blabber, conservatives had rather slowly give up their freedoms like mold rots a wooden structure than actually SEIZE their freedom in a manner that the framers put in the Constitution itself, specifically for such things.

Maybe people will come to the conclusion that the federal government is, in every single sense of the word, our enemy...., and realize they are powerless against a people who know their rights and will exercise them. Maybe. My bets right now is that it is going to take the total dissolution and collapse of the goody bag and some real societal pain before that happens.

Let's hope I am wrong.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
As far as the OP goes. I am in both agreement and despair about 10a. I used to talk in here about the ultimate expression of 10a, which is an article 5 convention. The hysteria and hand wringing that we will "lose our freedoms" and will have a "runaway convention" shows me that for all the blabber, conservatives had rather slowly give up their freedoms like mold rots a wooden structure than actually SEIZE their freedom in a manner that the framers put in the Constitution itself, specifically for such things.
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An article 5 convention would be an off ramp to the cracking skulls convention. If an article 5 convention were to go in such a direction, cracking skulls would still be on the table.
 
Cachecropp said:
We spend so much time worrying about infringement of the 1st and 2nd Amendment and other rights that I’m afraid there’s very little thought given to the 10th Amendment.

The main problem with the constant influx of anti-gun laws, regulations, fees and taxes is that they are coming from a federal government that spends Trillions of our tax dollars to overpower all 50 state governments and control the country. This is not the Constitutional Republic that was intended. Our individual rights were supposed to be the most important aspect of this government, but now they’ve become an afterthought. Even if we win an election here or there for candidates who are committed to protecting individual rights, the gargantuan bureaucracy in DC is still working every day to regulate all facets of life 24/7. I don’t want to go down the Trump rabbit hole, but his 4 years is a case study for what happens when someone has ideas that the Federal bureaucracy does not agree with.

My point here is, to affect change you can’t just elect politicians who say they are Pro-Gun. Politiciams don’t get much done, even if they want to. Congress is basically a stalemate. One example I’ll give you is a statement made by Ron Desantis, Governor of Florida. He said after years in Congress, he realized it was almost impossible to get ANYTHING done in DC. Now that he is a Governor of a state, he can affect change everywhere within that state. To affect meaningful change, the Federal government needs to shrink considerably and the State and Local governments must become at least equal to the Federal government in power.

Anchoring the Bill of Rights is this beautiful text which underlines and emphasizes everything in the Constitution.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

So these regulatory agencies, the EPA, ATF, IRS don’t have authority over the States unless the States grant it to them. There are hundreds of federal agencies. They spend Trillions of our tax dollars each year and put us deeper into debt each year. The only reason they exist is that the states have not challenged them in court. I’m not a lawyer and I’m open to criticism here, but if the Governor of NC wanted to ignore the EPA, for example, citing the 10th amendment, I think the case would have merit. There have been numerous cases over the last 150 years which have paved the way for the Federal government to grow in size and power, so the courts would have to set new legal precedents and it would take time for the transformation to happen. However, I think we have a Supreme Court right now that actually considers the Constitution fully. For example, How could the EPA justify its authority over a state if that state simply said, “the EPA does not have any powers delegated to it by the Constitution and therefore we do not recognize its authority.”?

There would be a ripple effect as 15, 20, maybe even 30 states all challenged the authority of all these hundreds of agencies.
The federal government would shrink in size, lose much of its budget and its sway over the states. We all have much more direct contact with our elected state representatives, so I believe focusing on the 10th Amendment is the best path to protecting everyone’s rights.

P.S. - Biden and Congress are working on a bill right now to, among other things, greatly increase the budget of the IRS and hire hundreds more tax collecting agents. This is their focus in the middle of the worst inflation in 40 years and a recession!
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All of what you said is true and more to the point now is how DC is a willing participant in global endeavor.
Don’t mean to be a pessimist, but states’rights are gone ( for the most part), a ship sailed. Slavery was a horrible thing, but states rights were the underlying factor in the civil war as well.
Until we have term limits, reduce politicians pay to military pay (O-4) and military benefits, make them forfeit all stock trading while in office for them and their families, get rid of all lobbyists…. To start with,
it ( government )will continue to be the behemoth it is.
 
xnavysalvage said:
All of what you said is true and more to the point now is how DC is a willing participant in global endeavor.
Don’t mean to be a pessimist, but states’rights are gone ( for the most part), a ship sailed. Slavery was a horrible thing, but states rights were the underlying factor in the civil war as well.
Until we have term limits, reduce politicians pay to military pay (O-4) and military benefits, make them forfeit all stock trading while in office for them and their families, get rid of all lobbyists…. To start with,
it ( government )will continue to be the behemoth it is.
Click to expand...
take the power away and the money goes away.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
Maybe people will come to the conclusion that the federal government is, in every single sense of the word, our enemy...., and realize they are powerless against a people who know their rights and will exercise them. Maybe. My bets right now is that it is going to take the total dissolution and collapse of the goody bag and some real societal pain before that happens.
Click to expand...
IF anything happens, it will be because of the goody bag collapse, imho. I believe too many Americans today are too soft, too distracted, and too stupid to know their rights, much less exercise them.

bread and circuses I.jpgbread and circuses II.jpg
 
wheelgun_man said:
IF anything happens, it will be because of the goody bag collapse, imho. I believe too many Americans today are too soft, too distracted, and too stupid to know their rights, much less exercise them.

View attachment 506486View attachment 506487
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Let the bread and circuses continue to attract the shallow-minded. In the meantime, the rest of us are beating our plowshares into swords.
 
concepthomes2 said:
Let the bread and circuses continue to attract the shallow-minded. In the meantime, the rest of us are beating our plowshares into swords.
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I am all for swords. I am. I am actually way way way more concerned at this point in time that your average patriot 2a supporting man on the street is going to look at a plow and say "hey, I wonder what that is for, and wonder what we should do with it now that the aisles in Food Lion, Publix, and Krogers are bare."
Maybe it is just me, but I think guns and ammo (I am still buying the latter, and my collection of ammo cans literally weighed my pickup down when I moved) are only going to be important when folks realize we can keep them from starving and are motivated to TAKE. My fear is there will be, for many of us, little if anything to take.

You have no idea how wrong I hope I am.
 
concepthomes2 said:
...the rest of us are beating our plowshares into swords.
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First off, please let me be clear that I'm not implying the following pertains to you.

With the advent of the internet and the "echo chamber" effect it can have, those who seriously are preparing for revolt will likely find that the "plowshares into swords" concept has become yet another "circus" of entertainment for many.

Many are serious about preparing for an upcoming storm. It will take many more than 3% of the population (that estimate is not accurate, it was more than likely 10-25% of the population who participated in the American Revolution) for a revolution to succeed. But even rolling with the 3% notion, that would mean that there would need to be almost 10 million Americans willing to take up arms against the government. Are there 320,000 in NC that would participate (3% of NC's population of 10.7 million)?

Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows? I base part of it on what I saw happen during the summer of 2020, when business owners took to the internet forums to ask for help in defending their businesses against looters. I saw many who previously said basically anywhere, anytime melt away into the "wish you were closer" or " I would but I have to work tomorrow" keyboard commando responses.

I don't know why this topic pushed my buttons today. I'm soon to be 64 and have grown weary of the bread and circuses I reckon. And frustrated that not enough people seem to notice what's going on right in front of them.
 
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I get the frustration. I listen to millennials talking about gender identity and I think, if our 1st and 2nd amendment rights are eroded any more, you’ll be digging through dumpsters for scraps and no one will give two sh!ts about your gender choice. Before we let the discussion go down the “all is lost” rabbit hole, I really want everyone to consider what each of us can do locally to push a 10th amendment mind set.

1st - obviously elect a new Governor. I won’t waste any more time on that point. It’s obvious.
2nd - elect a Governor who is well versed and keen on the 10th Amendment. Amongst conservatives, this is not a given. We need to push this point, grass roots, across the state.
3rd - we need to elect this 10th amendment savvy Governor decisively so that it has an effect on State Congress and has momentum moving forward, like MAGA and the Tea Party movements did.
4th - we need to follow through to begin pushing the Bureaucrats and their policies out of NC. If successful, other states will follow.

I’m all ears for suggestions and ideas how best to accomplish this. Step 2 is key.
 
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Cachecropp said:
Now look at this article just published. We’ve just been talking about this.

www.yahoo.com

Trump-tied conservatives are 15 states away from an unprecedented rewrite of the Constitution

A well-funded conservative organization with ties to corporate America is leading the charge for a first-of-its-kind constitutional convention.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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This is the sort of mind numbed hand-ringing hysteria that arises from the right and the left which infuriates me. These sorts of claims are based in nothing but an absolute and total complete ignorance of the process of an article 5 convention coupled with the kind of paranoid hysteria one normally finds only in Qbots and people claiming that the hospital ships that came into New York City during the covid pandemic were to offload children coming out of giant underground complexes where they had been systematically tortured and had their adrenochrome extracted.

I expect the sort of bawling shrieking idiocy from the left which asserts that anything that threatens to take power away from DC is a horrible Sinister force that should be resisted at all costs. I expect that. I also have a great deal of sympathy for conservatives who don't trust the process of political change and are skeptical about people wishing to use anything to leave her more power to themselves. I get that. I really do. I have sympathy for anyone who smells a rat and wishes to exterminate it (historical allusion there. You get it or you don't).

That said, please, for God's sake, will you just take the time to educate yourself on the process of an article 5 convention? It is not empowered to rewrite the Constitution. It's not empowered to strip out a Second Amendment right (face palming with force and enough vigor to give myself a headache).

An article 5 convention was put into the constitution. did you get that? It was put into the Constitution by its authors. Did you read that?? One more time. It was put into the Constitution by the authors. It was done so in order to protect the rule of law when Powers have aggregated to DC in order that the Constitutional form of government itself is threatened. Does that sound just a wee bit like what we have now?

Conservatives who don't even bother to look at the process, who don't bother to look at the objections that have been raised and see how those objections have actually been addressed and proved to be specious, and then refuse to support an article 5 convention because of some bogeyman about them rewriting the Constitution and taking away all of our liberties and blah blah blah blah. Those people just are tiresome. No other way to say it. They're just tiresome.

You are throwing away possibly the only weapon short of an armed Revolution that is left to you in the tool chest to arrest the progress of tyranny. And you are doing so because you are frankly too lazy to look at what is a wonderfully wise prescient and would be effective tool to reverse the course of tyranny in what used to be a republic. So go ahead and hang on to your myth that the Second Amendment will save you if you wish. I'm done
 
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Tan,

Not sure who exactly you’re lecturing here, but I agree with most everything you said.

I don’t see that many states ever agreeing on this though. Just interesting this article popped up a few days ago.
 
Cachecropp said:
Tan,

Not sure who exactly you’re lecturing here, but I agree with most everything you said.

I don’t see that many states ever agreeing on this though. Just interesting this article popped up a few days ago.
Click to expand...
Just putting the shoes out on the rack. Anyone who they fit can wear them!
That subject has a long history of discussion here.... with sparklers ;)
 
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Here are 9 states that would never agree to a convention - NY, NJ, MA, CT, DE, MD, IL, CA, MN

Here’s some of the questionable ones - RI, OR, WA, CO, WI, NM, VT, ME, NH, VA, NC?
 
www.audible.com

Michael Farris at Article V Symposium

Check out this great listen on Audible.com. Convention of States co-founder Michael Farris gave the following speech at an Article V Symposium in 2014. The symposium was moderated by Article V scholar Professor Robert G. Natelson....
www.audible.com www.audible.com

Please google Farris. He is a fantastic legal scholar, a spark plug on the 2020 election integrity investigations, a long time champion of home schooling, and just a bona fide legal wiz. He has a number of answers to both Common Cause and New American (John Birch Society), who have been left and right the most vocal critics of a concon.
 
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Cachecropp said:
Here are 9 states that would never agree to a convention - NY, NJ, MA, CT, DE, MD, IL, CA, MN

Here’s some of the questionable ones - RI, OR, WA, CO, WI, NM, VT, ME, NH, VA, NC?
Click to expand...
We moved out of southern NH because it was being overrun by Mass liberal extremists and “the weather”
We could deal with the weather but had enough of the libs that were taking over the state.

We are in our 70s and were Republican (not knowing why until we were in our 20s) but now are Constitutionalist with nowhere to go.

We home schooled our kids when it required we fight the school system (they told us it was their responsibility and we didn’t know how).

We are Christian’s and believe that man has free will, is basically evil, needs a strong spiritual foundation, and a Savior.
We see that most churches have become social organizations that have abandoned their responsibility of helping the poor by letting the government do it and many church leaders (not all) are just control freaks with large egos that get their power from misquoting or misusing the Bible.

We have a hard time listening to any major newscast (including Fox) because they are politically biased and show how sick and immoral mankind is.

BTW we are educated people. My wife has a doctorate degree and deals with domestic violence and I have a bachelors degree and considered an expert in lead free soldering and void elimination in electronic assemblies.
 
Cachecropp said:
We spend so much time worrying about infringement of the 1st and 2nd Amendment and other rights that I’m afraid there’s very little thought given to the 10th Amendment.

The main problem with the constant influx of anti-gun laws, regulations, fees and taxes is that they are coming from a federal government that spends Trillions of our tax dollars to overpower all 50 state governments and control the country. This is not the Constitutional Republic that was intended. Our individual rights were supposed to be the most important aspect of this government, but now they’ve become an afterthought. Even if we win an election here or there for candidates who are committed to protecting individual rights, the gargantuan bureaucracy in DC is still working every day to regulate all facets of life 24/7. I don’t want to go down the Trump rabbit hole, but his 4 years is a case study for what happens when someone has ideas that the Federal bureaucracy does not agree with.

My point here is, to affect change you can’t just elect politicians who say they are Pro-Gun. Politiciams don’t get much done, even if they want to. Congress is basically a stalemate. One example I’ll give you is a statement made by Ron Desantis, Governor of Florida. He said after years in Congress, he realized it was almost impossible to get ANYTHING done in DC. Now that he is a Governor of a state, he can affect change everywhere within that state. To affect meaningful change, the Federal government needs to shrink considerably and the State and Local governments must become at least equal to the Federal government in power.

Anchoring the Bill of Rights is this beautiful text which underlines and emphasizes everything in the Constitution.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

So these regulatory agencies, the EPA, ATF, IRS don’t have authority over the States unless the States grant it to them. There are hundreds of federal agencies. They spend Trillions of our tax dollars each year and put us deeper into debt each year. The only reason they exist is that the states have not challenged them in court. I’m not a lawyer and I’m open to criticism here, but if the Governor of NC wanted to ignore the EPA, for example, citing the 10th amendment, I think the case would have merit. There have been numerous cases over the last 150 years which have paved the way for the Federal government to grow in size and power, so the courts would have to set new legal precedents and it would take time for the transformation to happen. However, I think we have a Supreme Court right now that actually considers the Constitution fully. For example, How could the EPA justify its authority over a state if that state simply said, “the EPA does not have any powers delegated to it by the Constitution and therefore we do not recognize its authority.”?

There would be a ripple effect as 15, 20, maybe even 30 states all challenged the authority of all these hundreds of agencies.
The federal government would shrink in size, lose much of its budget and its sway over the states. We all have much more direct contact with our elected state representatives, so I believe focusing on the 10th Amendment is the best path to protecting everyone’s rights.

P.S. - Biden and Congress are working on a bill right now to, among other things, greatly increase the budget of the IRS and hire hundreds more tax collecting agents. This is their focus in the middle of the worst inflation in 40 years and a recession!
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We need more privacy with the number of cameras and facial regonition scanners and ai bring about an unjust lack of privacy let alone the internet their addicted and the think they need it. Thats how it starts.
 
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