What about "spiritual" and all the crazy stuff?

tanstaafl72555

tanstaafl72555

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I am -recently- torn between my Cartesian/enlightenment/rationalistic world view, and that of the "mystical." The bible clearly states we are in a dual world. I operate in a singular, materialistic, almost hermetically sealed off material universe, in which God is "out there" and will sometimes (reluctantly?) come to my aid if the circumstances are serious enough, but I have to ask Him to sort of "come in" and interrupt the mechanistic world spinning on in its natural laws. That world is subject ONLY to my rational/rationalistic ability to quant out and evaluate and predict the material cause and effect on just about everything. It is very much a Deist mindset. In the west, we have learned to fashionably sneer at the "ignorant and superstitious" world of demons and spirits and ignorant Christians who "look for the devil under every leaf"

This was not the world of the NT Christians at all. Nor is it the view of most of humanity throughout history. I do remember being in the midst of tribes in Colombia and seeing the rank spiritism, superstition, fear, and yes, ignorance.... but thinking "these people live closer to the real world than I do in some aspects." I am mostly unaware of the dual nature of the world in which I live, and have to stop and consciously remind myself that I live in a world of hypersomatic, superintelligent, uberpowerful beings whose actions are continual and full of exertion and conflict, yet largely hidden from me. That sounds crazy even as I type it.... and I have to stop and ask myself "why?" The only possible answer is that I have made my mind, tethered to a mechanistic view of the cosmos, the yardstick for what is possible or even reasonable. This is modern man, and it is very foolish.

Even the effects when they "spill over" into the empirical realm seem to be a mere oddity or something I can dismiss by calling it "irrational"... as if the measuring stick of all that is possible is my rational capabilities! lol I think there are certainly dangers in going down that path, and the human mind, untethered to Scripture, will make up very bizarre and weird and frankly crazy stuff.... but the most wackadoodle spiritist may in fact be no less in error than I am, secure in my confidence that I can slot everything out and explain all in my mechanistic view of material cause and effect, ignoring the claims of the Scripture that there is a swirling melee of angels and demons all around us, and that we are operating IN a world of spiritism even when we ignore it.

Trying to sort that out a bit in my head and I confess to a great deal of confusion here. I have some relatives and friends who are in ..... lets call it "more emotionally demonstrative" churches than I am a part of. They seem happily unconnected to logical laws and rational rules..... and even rationality (at times) it seems to me. Yet they often are more "in touch" with that other world than I.

Just saying out loud what I see as an unfortunate pattern both in my life and others in the modern West. At this point in time, I simply am trying to do a "stop and re-center" exercise in the morning, and remind myself of what I say I believe, asking God to help me live more truly according to the world He has made. It does change how I view things during the day.
 
I tend to oversimplify things because of my limited knowledge and experience….there is only to forces at work, good and evil.


Pick a side
 
The existence of the spiritual dimension, and how it interacts with our “physical” dimension, has become much clearer to me in the last several years, particularly since 2020. There has been a great unmasking, such that it seems the evil spirit world is not having to hide itself to the same extent it once did in the West. This has been combined with a great spirit of delusion that has fogged many people’s discernment of the truth, including many who are/call themselves Christians. These deluded people cling to the rational, using it to deny the spiritual vortex that swirls around them.

I found that fasting helped me see this spiritual side for what it is. I had some pretty significant breakthroughs in the 2014-2015 timeframe along these lines - mystical experiences and insights that permanently broke down some barriers that were keeping me from spiritual discernment. 2020/2021 brought more such experiences. Once certain things are seen, they can’t be unseen and they change you forever. For what it worth, none of these insights came from hallucinogenic drugs - simply fasting (which can have its own effects on your brain), prayer, and mediation on God’s Word. I firmly believe the hallucinogenic experience can take you into the spirit realm, but I also think this is a dangerous path that puts the beings in that realm at a distinct advantage over humans. I’m not willing to take that risk, though I personally know some people who have and do.

One recent example of how this discernment comes into practical play - the recent teen wilding in Chicago. I watched footage of those hundreds, if not thousands, of teens rampaging through the streets of downtown Chicago, most of them looking absolutely delighted to be there wreaking havoc. I could feel, even if I couldn’t see, the demonic element that was binding them together, driving them like cattle in a stampede, leaving destruction in their path. The rational mind rejects such influences, relying instead on psychoanalytic theory on how a crowd gets to this point of unified, destructive activity. While the rational explanations have merit, they are incomplete because they reject the spiritual side of such things.

Anywho, the rational and the spiritual can coexist to give a clearer, more accurate picture as we all “look through a glass darkly.” You can’t let either exclude the other, just like you can’t deny the reality that we have been created and exist both physically and spiritually.
 
Been back in church for about a year after a long absence
And I will say I have simplified many things in my walk

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Ephesians 4:32
Just being nice and smiling, even to people who just did something stupid, as if I never did anything stupid

And Ephesians 6:12
It is powerful and true. Pick up a copy of Billy Grahams book Angels
You can find it at most thrift stores for a dollar

Just trying to slow down, knowing that all things are under God’s feet and sharing the gospel and praying with people whenever I can.

By the way, you can get some nice bibles at thrift stores too for a dollar, I keep them in my truck and give to people when the opportunity arises.

Since there is so incredibly much I don't know and don’t understand, I will focus on what I do know.
Be tenderhearted to people, be forgiving and spread the gospel!
 
xnavysalvage said:
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Ephesians 4:32
Just being nice and smiling, even to people who just did something stupid, as if I never did anything stupid
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We were walking in Lakeside Cemetary in Conway one day....just walking around reading epitaphs.....one stuck with me now for over 20 years....I remember the man's name was Cannon.....The inscription on his stone struck me like a rock between the eyes.....it said simply...HE TRIED.......Not that he was successful, rich, poor, famous......just that He Tried....I thought then, and still today, that spoke volumes....To what @xnavysalvage posted, I Try.
 
I am 100% with @cubrock on the unveiling. Evil is showing its face. I watched a documentary on “burrow” on Roku where many musicians and actors openly talk about selling their soul. I thought it was metaphorically at first but quickly realized they were serious. Bob Dylan was interviewed by 60 minutes and stated he sold his soul, laughed and was asked about why he would continue and stated he had not fulfilled his bargain. There were a lot of celebrities and musicians that were very open about it in the documentary.

 
charliedeltajuliet said:
I am 100% with @cubrock on the unveiling. Evil is showing its face. I watched a documentary on “burrow” on Roku where many musicians and actors openly talk about selling their soul. I thought it was metaphorically at first but quickly realized they were serious. Bob Dylan was interviewed by 60 minutes and stated he sold his soul, laughed and was asked about why he would continue and stated he had not fulfilled his bargain. There were a lot of celebrities and musicians that were very open about it in the documentary.

Click to expand...

I had seen this. Here is a weird rejoinder. your soul is not yours to sell. it was made by and is owned by God. 'selling your soul to the devil' -whether robert johnson down at the crossroads, dylan, or any number of other luminaries we hear about- are all suckers of a scam. we are like sharecroppers in that we live on the land and have some rights to its use, but own none of it. God can certainly reclaim it, and often does. happy thought, that.
 
This is an interesting topic and one that has been on my mind recently.

I’m also an analytical sort. While I grew up going to church each Sunday, I eventually became cynical and relied on what could be “proven” scientifically and/or mathematically. I’m an engineer (a pretty good one as it turns out) and that’s simply how my mind works.

However, I’m also a well read person that cannot stop trying to absorb information. I’m always driven to observe and try to make sense of the world around me. Situational awareness of the world is a requirement for those who had interesting childhoods that were at times….unsafe.

The truth resides somewhere between the lines of news articles. Trying to make sense of what is happening around us has given me a sense of unease I can’t shake. The data makes no sense. It doesn’t add up. The motives of those in power are so shrouded I can’t even guess at what they might be. The machinations of the billionaires that have their hands on the controls are against their own interests. Do they have information I do not? Undoubtedly.

So for a long time I supposed that the simplest explanation (ye old Razor) must be that I am not informed enough to understand why population control is so necessary. Or why people are being conditioned to be confused about their sexuality. Or why freedoms are being curtailed for the sake of fanatical environmentalism.

As time goes on I’m becoming less antagonistic toward a spiritual explanation.

This is an exceedingly hard thing for me to accept because I do not like ultimatums. I do not like the idea that I didn’t choose to be here, yet in the relative blink of and eye (a human lifetime) I’m supposed to kowtow to a superior being that I can’t understand. I can’t see it. Can’t ask it questions. And the message about this being, this critical wager where my existence for all eternity hangs in the balance, is being given by some very imperfect individuals. Some of which are certainly apostate and opportunistic.

Then I remember that life isn’t fair.

Nobody promised it would be.

Technology has progressed to the extent that the AI paradigm is shifting in time frames measured in hours and days. The changes to human interaction have changed drastically since COVID. People are dehumanizing each other. It’s like everything is suddenly accelerating. For what purpose I cannot say.

There’s a little nudge in the back of my mind. When I was a young man I listened to it and it saved my life on at least two occasions. Maybe it is some sort of subconscious data analysis that is an artifact of my upbringing. But that nudge, or that little voice, is almost always there. Like a low frequency wave of anxiety. It tells me that something is happening.

Perhaps I’ve lost my marbles like Tootles in Peter Pan. Or maybe that subconscious engine that never sleeps is trying to warn me. Perhaps it sees that which eludes my waking eyes.

What to do?

Get eaten by the modern equivalent of a lion in the Roman coliseum without putting up much of a fuss? Yeah, that doesn’t sound like me.

Living in interesting times sucks. I mean it’s totally gross. Do not recommend. Zero stars.

Well I’m not the only crazy person on the forum. That’s good. I guess. But like the great philosopher Sting once said “Men go crazy in congregations; they only get better one by one”.

The congregation, I always thought, was the church. But actually I’m beginning to think that’s not it at all. The world around us is the congregation. We’ve all gone crazy. And only through faith can we perhaps get better.

But what the hell do I know?
 
Studentofthegun said:
Living in interesting times sucks. I mean it’s totally gross. Do not recommend. Zero stars.
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Yeah, sometimes it can and does suck, but we were born at a specific time in history for a reason….every damned one of us.

Mark Twain once said the two most important days of your life is the day you were born and the day you find out why. My gut tells me the truth in the latter part of that statement will become readily apparent in the not-too-distant future.
 
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Studentofthegun said:
We’ve all gone crazy. And only through faith can we perhaps get better.
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We were all born crazy brother, born in sin, shaped in iniquity, and came into the world speaking lies....

And then it all went downhill somehow from there, but for the grace of God. Seems to me you're becoming more and more discerning all the time, I think you're on the right track FWIW.
 
My best prayers begin, “ Your will be done.” And it usually works out, maybe not in the way we want, but in the way God wants. We just hav to see the difference.
 
The only explanation for what is going on today is a spiritual one. As was said above, too often the actions of the "movers and shakers" seems to be contrary to their own long-term interests.

If you try and look at things rationally they don't make sense. IF you overlay world events with the concept of "powers and principalities " we struggle against, who have the overall goal of the corruption of mankind and our destruction, things click into place.

Yes, good wins in the end; never been in doubt. The question is, and will continue to be, how many of us get peeled off and separated from good?
 
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