what does the twice as expensive Hellion have over the Kel Tec?

Stogies

Stogies

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Stogies said:
palmettostatearmory.com

Kel-tec RDB Defender .223 Rem/5.56 AR-15 Rifle, Blk - RDBDBLK

Color: BlackCaliber: .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATOAction: Semi-AutomaticFirearm Type: RifleCapacity: 20Barrel Length: 16"Twist Rate: 1:7"Series/Collection: RDB DefenderReceiver Finish: Black
palmettostatearmory.com palmettostatearmory.com

www.springfield-armory.com

Hellion™ 5.56 Rifle - Springfield Armory

www.springfield-armory.com www.springfield-armory.com

The Hellion is noted at almost twice the price of the Kel Tec but I don't see any real big advantages?
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That big sight bridge/ handle thingy that makes it look like a Famas? That's all I got. I have an RDB, which I really like, and I would not pay $1999 for the hellion. IMO, if they are wanting to compete in the bullpup market, they need to at least be cheaper than a Tavor or an AUG. Not a good start. Maybe they jack up prices after establishing themselves in the market, but, if they offer no more features than any of the others, then I feel they are getting off on the wrong foot. Just my $0.07, adjusted for current inflation.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 
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i had that same conversation with my cousin
i was expecting 1500 msrp with a street price of maaaybe 1200, and i'd pick it up at 1k on sale...
he was thinking a lot higher because springield
i would not pay the msrp on it. nope.
and yeah, it has to compete with the aug and tavor. no doubt it's going to be better than the aug, maybe better than the tavor... but that price isn't going to have people lining up.

and keltecs... prices are imaginary with them. you pay what is asked when one shows up, or you don't.
 
What does it have over a Kel-Tec? I see 3 main benefits over the Kel-Tec designs...

1. It's not a Kel-Tec
2. You might actually be able to get one
3. See #1

In all seriousness, I think the price is about right. With inflation, increased COGS, shipping expenses this is probably about right. There is certainly demand for them as I've already seen them on GB going for way over MSRP. So it will sell at $2K. I think everyone needs to forget the days of imported "military style/grade" weapons for the ~$1K price point. Sure, you can get Turkish garbage for $200, but if you want quality manufacturing with good quality control and acceptable customer support that all costs money.

On thing this gun will have over the Kel-Tec, most likely, is aftermarket support. Springfield will sell much more of these so the aftermarket will be inclined to support it more. Yes, I know that Kel-Tec has an aftermarket... but it's mostly niche companies.
 
According to Wiki, these countries use it to some extent:

Users​

  • 21px-Flag_of_Albania.svg.png
    Albania: Used by the Albanian State Police.[21]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina.svg.png
    Bosnia and Herzegovina: Bosnian federal special police armed with VHS-K2 rifles.[citation needed]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Cameroon.svg.png
    Cameroon: Used by the military.[22][self-published source?]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Croatia.svg.png
    Croatia: Standard weapon of the Croatian Army, replacing older VHS model.[13] Also used by the Police.[23]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Iraq.svg.png
    Iraq: About 100,000 in service with the Iraqi Federal Police and Iraqi Ground and Special Forces, including the Emergency Response Division.[24][20][21]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Syria.svg.png
    Syria:[25]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Togo.svg.png
    Togo: Togolese Army acquired 3,000 VHS-2 for peacekeeping missions.[21]
That makes it interesting to me; that's it's actually based on a military-used rifle. I wish the countries were more known (would LOVE a semi-auto French FAMAS or Brit SA80). I may have a very hard time putting out $2K for something that looks like a KelTec but says, "Made In Croatia" on the side......
 
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I was going to say it won't be vaporware like most keltecs but it seems like a few people have rdb's, which I was surprised about.
 
Hellion design pros over the RDB

* Military background, successful military trials
* true ambi charging handle
* adjustable stock looks like they both have an adjustable stock but this one is quick adjust
* adjustable cheek riser
* MLOK handguard
* integrated flip up iron sights
* accepts ar15 grips
* can see the action to clear malfunctions
* can accept blocks to take G36 and FAMAS mags (not super useful though)
* removable trigger pack (should get some aftermarket packs like the X95)

Hellion design cons vs RDB

* Weighs 1 lb more
* slightly longer OAL (~1")
* slightly shorter barrel (~1.3")
* $1999 MSRP (unknown street) vs $1200 street price ($1000 MSRP) for the RDB
* weird safety lever (probably gonna get aftermarket options here)

I'm assuming it's gonna have a street price lower than MSRP once the initial demand lowers. Everything else does. X95 MSRP is $1999 and the AUG A3 is $2199 MSRP for example but neither sell close to that.
 
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Because it has "Springfield Armory, Geneseo Ill." stamped on it..........
 
The VHS-2(hellion) is a military design with hard use in mind. As far as I know, no military forces have adopted a Keltec.

In my opinion, aside from the length of pull being pretty long I’m not seeing a lot of downsides. I may change my mind once we start getting them in our hands. To me this looks to be one of the better bullpup designs.

It is basically a Bullpup G36 and even takes G36 mags with the other magwell adapter.
Out of the box completely ambi with the ability to reverse the ejection right and left. Short stroke piston with a G36 style ambi charging handle.

I plan on getting one, if they are widely available and sell at or under MSRP




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Stogies said:
palmettostatearmory.com

Kel-tec RDB Defender .223 Rem/5.56 AR-15 Rifle, Blk - RDBDBLK

Color: BlackCaliber: .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATOAction: Semi-AutomaticFirearm Type: RifleCapacity: 20Barrel Length: 16"Twist Rate: 1:7"Series/Collection: RDB DefenderReceiver Finish: Black
palmettostatearmory.com palmettostatearmory.com

www.springfield-armory.com

Hellion™ 5.56 Rifle - Springfield Armory

www.springfield-armory.com www.springfield-armory.com

The Hellion is noted at almost twice the price of the Kel Tec but I don't see any real big advantages?
Click to expand...
To your point, this rifle is actually pretty far removed from anything keltec has ever made. As stated earlier, even though it looks like a FAMAS it is more akin to a g36 or tavor. That being said, it is in the price range of both those guns but hopefully you will be able to find it at your LGS once the initial craze dies down and it is no longer fetching twice the MSRP on gunbroker, a la the Springfield saint in 2020.

I do think it is worth the MSRP considering it's track record on the field and Springfield isn't HK so they will make more than 5 every year.
 
I like Kel Tec stuff, I've owned quite a few different ones and I'm totally disinterested in the Hellion as I'm not a fan of bullpups or the price point.... But it's a good design with a significantly improved second gen in current military service, which is fairly impressive given the AR market stranglehold.

Kel Tec stuff is neat but isn't going to pass any military trials on a good day.
 
www.impactguns.com

Springfield Hellion Bullpup 5.56/.223, 16" Barrel, Flip-Up Sights, Mod3 Grip, Black, 30rd

Springfield Hellion Bullpup 5.56/.223, 16" Barrel, Flip-Up Sights, Mod3 Grip, Black, 30rd. Springfield Armory HL916556B. The new Hellion from Springfield Armory represents a radically unique and innovative approach to firearms design, helping to redefine perceptions of semi-automatic 5.56mm ...
www.impactguns.com www.impactguns.com

$1,978 (with coupon code: “Welcome20”) backorder

I’ve always liked the look of the VHS-2 and didn’t expect to ever have the chance to buy one. I’ll probably be picked on for saying this - but I find it more aesthetically pleasing than the AUG or Tavor.

MSRP is higher than it should be but I think I’ll buy one eventually. I’ll wait it out a bit to see what the market does to the price point. I do have other guns on my wish list that take priority over this.
 
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I cringe every time i see the price rdbs sell for these days. Its a $700 gun. If you're going to spend over a grand in a bullpup get a x95 or aug. This is coming from someone who regrets getting rid of his rdb.
 
Prudii said:
I cringe every time i see the price rdbs sell for these days. Its a $700 gun. If you're going to spend over a grand in a bullpup get a x95 or aug. This is coming from someone who regrets getting rid of his rdb.
Click to expand...
but an aug and an x95 aren't downward ejecting...
 
7E197678-D32F-4992-A078-77A86C6EF369.jpeg
A21CA5CC-C3DA-4956-B5CB-857F5DAF1B8D.jpeg
7B4558E9-9A85-43D7-BA77-560FF86330AF.jpeg
Played around in the store with a Hellion for the first time today. Carolina Gunrunners in Raleigh had this in stock for $1,860.

I don’t own a bullpup so it felt pretty foreign to me. I compared it with the AUG they also had in store…

-Hellion had better controls (imo), more “AR-like” which is what I’m comfortable with. Hellion safety is easy to toggle with thumb.

-Hellion felt significantly heavier than the AUG

-Hellion has a 2-position “stock”, the collapsed position seemed most comfortable to me… you’d have to be really lanky to run it extended?

-Hellion push-button flip-up iron sights were nice - I liked that the collapsed position was flush with that carry handle rail. Button action felt good to open but was annoying to press to close.

-The Hellion felt “shorter” than the AUG… shorter distance between the pistol grip & end of muzzle device?

-The AUG felt more ergonomic. Hellion felt good shouldered, just not as “fitted” as the AUG for me

-Hellion felt very plastic to me. They’re obviously both plastic, so I’m not sure what I expected. I’m sure it’s durable enough but meh plastic
 
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