Interesting philosophy, making things as light as possible, and ditching things orthodoxy says are required(military profiled barrels, iron sights, and forward assist).
What are y'alls thoughts on this?
What are y'alls thoughts on this?
What Would Stoner Do?
- Thread starter pinkbunny
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I love Karl and Ian and watch Inrange and Forgotten Weapons religiously. However they are pretty nerdy and basically hipsters when it comes to anything other than guns.
I agree with a lot of their opinions on What Stoner would do, except for a few.
I don’t believe he would have ever gone with a plastic lower or a carbon fiber free float tube.
I do think the lightweight barrel, ambi charging handle and forward assist delete are good moves.
I agree with a lot of their opinions on What Stoner would do, except for a few.
I don’t believe he would have ever gone with a plastic lower or a carbon fiber free float tube.
I do think the lightweight barrel, ambi charging handle and forward assist delete are good moves.
Some things are extremely marginal weight savings for potentially life altering consequences. Like the forward assist, what if you find yourself needing to chamber a round quietly? Slowly pull back, don't let the bolt slam close, then you need the FA to push the bolt into full battery. At the end of the day, I know weight matters, but function has to take priority for the required use.
I would put forth the arguement that it should already be chambered.
A safety clicking off, especially done slowly, is a lot less noisy than anything you described.
A safety clicking off, especially done slowly, is a lot less noisy than anything you described.
Obviously, but situationally you can't guarantee that that'll always be feasible. My point was that how much are you saving by losing the forward assist versus its potential benefits if needed.?
TripleO7
Well-Known Member
I've used the forward assist to finish feeding a round. The only hiccup in a little over 1000 rounds through my Eagle 15. Pushed the round in and kept on shooting without even putting the rifle down.
Aguila amm0, .223 55grain. A few rounds felt light in the box I was shooting out of. So I'll blame the ammo.
Either way, it fixed the issue quickly.
Aguila amm0, .223 55grain. A few rounds felt light in the box I was shooting out of. So I'll blame the ammo.
Either way, it fixed the issue quickly.
And I'd love to see the BMIs of our tactical forum here post holiday season...
Well I’m 24.8 BMI (5’11” @ 178 lbs) which is borderline overweight. Funny thing is it’s only 13 lbs more than my high school training weight but in a way different distribution ... 30some years ain’t been kind and my knees tell me everyday I need to drop that 13 lbs plus a few more but once you cross the 50 year mark it ain’t easy.
That's funny because I could have written the exact same sentence, although I like to say I'm 6'0 in a nice set of socks!
Your fellow soldier runs out of ammo, you hand over a fresh mag and need to chamber the first round silently.
Just thinking, I have never served.
210 rnd basic loadout...if he runs out of ammo and needs a mag, it's far from quiet at that point lol
Posted this as I was typing lol
Combat Diver
Well-Known Member
I can think of half dozen reasons to quietly chamber a round as I've done most of them. One of the loudest sounds you'll ever recognize is the "Click" of an empty chamber when you needed it to go "BOOM".
Deer hunting at O dark thirty, you use a climber up a tree, haul up your rifle and then QUIETLY chamber a round
Setting up ambush in bad guy country, press check to ensure round is chambered and QUITELY tap FA.
In stack getting ready to breech a building, final press check and QUIETLY tap FA.
Coming out of the surf from a subsurface swim in bad guys back door. Pull bolt back to break vacuum seal to allow water to drain out of barrel and then QUIETLY tap FA.
Parachute into bad guy country at night. Pull AR out of weapons case and QUIETLY chamber round.
Out hunting and different target appears. Change load in blind and QUIETTLY chamber different bullet.
Bolt actions don't need a FA because you MANUALLY turn the bolt down applying additional pressure as needed. M1, M14 or AK fails to go fully into battery, push on operating handle. Slide not fully in battery on your semi auto pistol, smack back of slide with your hand. Bolt failed to go into battery on a bullpup rifle, use the FA or Op Rod Handle if provided. The scallop groove on the BCG isn't always easy to get to if wear gloves and doesn't give the extra leverage needed.
CD
Deer hunting at O dark thirty, you use a climber up a tree, haul up your rifle and then QUIETLY chamber a round
Setting up ambush in bad guy country, press check to ensure round is chambered and QUITELY tap FA.
In stack getting ready to breech a building, final press check and QUIETLY tap FA.
Coming out of the surf from a subsurface swim in bad guys back door. Pull bolt back to break vacuum seal to allow water to drain out of barrel and then QUIETLY tap FA.
Parachute into bad guy country at night. Pull AR out of weapons case and QUIETLY chamber round.
Out hunting and different target appears. Change load in blind and QUIETTLY chamber different bullet.
Bolt actions don't need a FA because you MANUALLY turn the bolt down applying additional pressure as needed. M1, M14 or AK fails to go fully into battery, push on operating handle. Slide not fully in battery on your semi auto pistol, smack back of slide with your hand. Bolt failed to go into battery on a bullpup rifle, use the FA or Op Rod Handle if provided. The scallop groove on the BCG isn't always easy to get to if wear gloves and doesn't give the extra leverage needed.
CD
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For my uses, I have no need for a forward assist or heavy barrel profile.
There are also many good alternatives to pencil profiles on the market. Better tapers that string less.
I look to the competition world for my needs, rather than military considerations. My guns are for competing, not operating.
So I imagine my guns are going to be different than a soldiers guns, or a hunting gun, as my needs are different.
ARs are cool because they can accommodate the the needs a particular shooter rather easily. That's what I love about them.
There are also many good alternatives to pencil profiles on the market. Better tapers that string less.
I look to the competition world for my needs, rather than military considerations. My guns are for competing, not operating.
So I imagine my guns are going to be different than a soldiers guns, or a hunting gun, as my needs are different.
ARs are cool because they can accommodate the the needs a particular shooter rather easily. That's what I love about them.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
The question should've been "What Did Stoner Do?" and the answer to that is he went on to join KAC, invent all kinds of cool weapons systems, and none of them were lightweight OR have a pencil barrel.
Side charging upper, problem solved. Never understood the AR charging handle design tradeoff that's awkward to use and makes the FA necessary, all to avoid a reciprocating charging handle.
I would think with a little engineering it would be possible to design a non-reciprocating charging handle that would also serve as a FA, even if it requires pushing it in before pushing it forward, considering how often (almost never) that function is used.
I would think with a little engineering it would be possible to design a non-reciprocating charging handle that would also serve as a FA, even if it requires pushing it in before pushing it forward, considering how often (almost never) that function is used.
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Technically, the scalloped portion of the bolt on an AR was the original forward assist.
I’m not saying that a FA has no uses, far from it. But the rifle was already designed with the issue in mind.
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I’m not saying that a FA has no uses, far from it. But the rifle was already designed with the issue in mind.
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Like x 1000.
I’ll never NOT have a Forward Assist since I shoot Suppressed 99.999% of the time
Then they realized when it’s hot and covered in carbon and CLP its rather slippery and not the best way to do it
16 of them to be exact.
I’ll make up weight by deleting something from my kit rather than removing something from my weapon, reducing ammo, or bringing less water.
Flounderfs92
Low speed/high drag
I thought i saw on the internetz somewhere that a slick side upper receiver was a miniscule amoint heavier than one with a FA. Something about it being thicker walled? I may be off my rocker on this one.
Like x 1000.
I’ll never NOT have a Forward Assist since I shoot Suppressed 99.999% of the time
Then they realized when it’s hot and covered in carbon and CLP its rather slippery and not the best way to do it
16 of them to be exact.
I’ll make up weight by deleting something from my kit rather than removing something from my weapon, reducing ammo, or bringing less water.
Brother, I didn’t say it was worthless. But when it is brought up people harp on about seating a round silently. If your bolt is hot and covered in carbon you have moved past the point of stealth being a need.
I have ARs with and without them, and I honestly prefer the aesthetics of them. But I think in general terms their usefulness is overblown by the vast majority of people who use their rifles once in a while and never really put them in any form of stress.
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I wasn’t taking issue with what you said at all.
The forward assist debate is like the 9mm vs .45 thing; it’s an endless discussion. I, myself, think it’s a very useful item and there are many non-professionally encountered reasons to have one. I offered a new shooter a turn behind my newest rifle yesterday and he painfully rode the bolt forward. A quick FA tap and he was in business
I do have a dedicated .22 rifle I’m working on, I might get a slick side upper for it, though.
If this is the group to which we're referencing related to the OP, then I'd argue none of the shit from the video matters. Might as well be talking about a 3 gun match or coyote killing.