Wilmington, NC officer demoted after telling driver not to video record him

BOOger, you've got issues buddy.

My observation was based on knowledge that you did/do not have access to as I stated in my first post. Sometimes you just need to accept that someone else knows more then you.

Sorry that you (apparently) had your panties in a bunch last night and needed someone to take it out on.

This will be my last comment on this subject.... Unless you say something else that I consider stupid or incorrect.

Rob, out.
 
BOOger, you've got issues buddy.

My observation was based on knowledge that you did/do not have access to as I stated in my first post. Sometimes you just need to accept that someone else knows more then you.

Sorry that you (apparently) had your panties in a bunch last night and needed someone to take it out on.

This will be my last comment on this subject.... Unless you say something else that I consider stupid or incorrect.

Rob, out.

Are you out out? Or just kinda out out? We have played this game before.

And your specific knowledge of this specific event doesn’t override yet it being another “Dem Copz be Duh Evilz!” Crap storms that pop up here day after day. Especially when it ends with the cop actually being punished.

My panties generally don’t get in a bunch these days...have way more important things to worry about than what others think they know.

Have a great night, and if you aren’t really “out” then I’ll talk to you soon.



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BOOger, you've got issues buddy.

My observation was based on knowledge that you did/do not have access to as I stated in my first post. Sometimes you just need to accept that someone else knows more then you.

Sorry that you (apparently) had your panties in a bunch last night and needed someone to take it out on.

This will be my last comment on this subject.... Unless you say something else that I consider stupid or incorrect.

Rob, out.


*than
 
I completely agree. But if we paint everyone as nazi's, bootlickers, power hungry tyrants out for a paycheck your simply wrong. If you are repeating it to every weak minded or impressionable person within your bubble your bubble then becomes 100's or 1000's of misinformed people. I have seen more good officers leave because of this very reason continuing the negative circle and piss poor police work. I have personally been doxed and threatened to a degree because of my job when I followed every policy in place. All because everyone in the CJ system are bad and we shouldn't have a job. I have grown to expect that from other social media outlets but not this forum. I always try to help people understand situations from a less objective stand point. You know from our extensive PM messages where I stand on this stuff. But when people continue to paint everyone they include all the good people that are honest and hard working driving them to the point of saying F it and going into other jobs. We will get the system we back and instead of helping to empower the good officers,judges,correctional workers we are just running them off.

What is the solution?

When the generalization is that criminals have nothing to lose and won't be properly punished, and that police will misplace and abuse their power with little recourse, and the public has lost most trust in the entire system to the point that it is no longer capable of recruiting decent folk, what will be the outcome?

To me, it seems like things are at a tipping point. I want to believe that LEO is here to help me. I want to believe that the CJ system is here to help me, but I've dealt/am dealing with several instances that seem to prove that, as somebody who wants to simply be left alone, that isn't the case. It seems like a game to create criminals out of folks that want to simply be free, and release those that would do us real harm all under the guise of politic/social justice/whatever else.

It seems like, on one hand, we have one set with "all police are bad" and another with "(almost) all police are good", but I don't believe LEO is an institution in which that dichotomy can work. If things are to the point that increasingly large amount of the population that said institution are meant to serve no longer trust said institution, what is the next step?
 
Id be interested in knowing the legal history of those who feel that ACAB etc and ones who believe that it's a rare thing when they do bad things like seen in this video.

I feel that most are decent people doing their best to keep the streets safe etc.
But my personal experiences have all been good. Yes, Ive gotten tickets. In my youth I dealt with them when skateboarding various places and so on, but no real troubles/never handcuffed/no arrests
 



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So, trying to work with in the top of a top-down system that is even more corrupt and flawed?
Indeed.
It seems like, on one hand, we have one set with "all police are bad" and another with "(almost) all police are good", but I don't believe LEO is an institution in which that dichotomy can work. If things are to the point that increasingly large amount of the population that said institution are meant to serve no longer trust said institution, what is the next step?
This is why I think the real issue is bigger than just this aspect. Look at it from a 4th turning perspective. In a 4th turning one of the tell tale signs of an impending climax is the breakdown of civic institutions. That is what is happening. Distrust, disillusionment, corruption, illegitimacy, etc. As the old expression says, a fish rots from the head and if you look at what is happening on the national stage with the deep state, the DOJ, FBI, etc, you see the reason people are saying things like “laws are for little people”, “two tiered justice”, “no justice in the just us system”, and so forth. As demonstrated the legal system has failed against violent criminals, illegal aliens, etc. Most people’s interaction is to extort revenue from them over a minor transgression against the state which is the natural end game of a govt. ‘justice” system. It’s absurd. Again, I think there were reasons the founding principles both relied on different systems and prohibited standing (law enforcement) troops. The system isn’t working for The People.

Compounding the issue, recently, are things like the push to grab guns. This has been very divisive and puts cops in a no win situation, especially if they find The People not only not compliant but openly hostile, or even proactively on the offensive. What it is doing is creating very hard feelings on all sides.

From a larger perspective look at the political system. We have the worst of humanity being “elected” to positions where we play the illusory game of they get to tell us what to do. They’re scum. Yes I am painting “broad brush” but in general that’s what I think of politicians and were I given five minutes in a locked room with them, their idea of “law” would be fundamentally altered. What I’m saying is indicative of my view of the system and illegitimate govt. in general.

So now instead of protectors of the people we have agents of the state, paid for with money stolen under threat of “legal” violence who answer to the political trash. Note I did not say one thing about any one cop. I find it also interesting that we’re being forced into one of two camps, ACAB or worship, but such are internet arguments today, which is also reflective of the bigger picture.

Where does all this go? Long run, who knows, but in the short run we’re heading towards a breakdown of rule of law. While there may be good cops, people are starting to despise what police as an institution represent in principle.
 
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I watch the daily Spotcrime report around my area and check the reports in P2C (another problem concept police being separate from citizens). Half the reports the victim is listed as The State. Think about that. The other interesting thing is the vastly disproportionate racial makeup of the accused.
 
What is the solution?

Regular everyday people need to be involved in politics. Farmers,Business owners not just people that studied politics in college or are lawyers. Remember if you don't like the city police go to the mayor, you don't like county police support someone to take the current sheriff out of office and so on.

As far as the actual police department goes your welcome to go ask to do ride along to see what they actually do I think most would be surprised. There was a woman call 911 the other night because she was out of baby formula so an officer took his own money and bought her formula. I've seen judges dismiss charges on driving cases and then give a limited driving privileged for people to legally go to work. I've seen Magistrates make 5 or 6 phone calls to verify why someone has an OFA so the person actually knows why they got an OFA. I've seen Magistrates actually get OFA's reversed because they thought it was a mistake. The CJ system is not full of people making great livings but is full of people working hard to help others out.

Also I don't mean to be a downer type but if you are feeling dogged personally by the police and the system is working against you. Just think about how the minorities of this country have felt for the last 50 or so years. Look at Bloomberg's comments on stop and frisk and tell me you want that in every neighborhood. It's not an excuse but we can all do better personally, agency and system the same as normal people can do better personally,family and society.
 
I watch the daily Spotcrime report around my area and check the reports in P2C (another problem concept police being separate from citizens). Half the reports the victim is listed as The State. Think about that. The other interesting thing is the vastly disproportionate racial makeup of the accused.

I think your reading something and sometimes it doesn't make sense. The charging language is always THE STATE OF NC vs Joe Smith. Even when it is a domestic case between husband and wife it would be listed THE STATE OF NC vs Crappy Husband/Wife. If it is a accident with property damage to guard rails, state property type stuff then it would be the STATE as the victim because that is who the insurance has to reimburse for repairs.
 
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Think about this for a minute.

As gun owners we are painted by some as all bad and others as all good.

We know in fact that some are good and some are bad.

Let that sink in for a minute.

That's true of any group that consists of two majority factions. It becomes an even more polarizing issue when one of the groups is allowed on your property to enforce rules you didn't agree to.

I don't personally care for many different groups of people, but at no point do I believe my viewpoint should be pushed on them, nor my lifestyle choices enforced on them.

And I get it, I really do. I have family and friends in LEO, probably like most people on this planet. I work in these neighborhoods where LEO are frequent flyers, and I couldn't work as LEO there without clubbing various occupants with an ASP baton daily. I couldn't get a child molester to the clink or magistrate's office without making them disappear. I get that it has to be absolutely infuriating locking up the same criminal POSs innumerable times, only for them to be turned loose again. But I also couldn't pull over a damn working man trying to get home for going 12MPH over just because I know he'll pay the fine, all the while knowing the tax debits of this society are committing 18 traffic violations a second up on Wilkinson Blvd, and letting that go without cause as they'll simply just let the warrants pile up rather than 'pay a debt'.

And while we all know our sons, fathers, brothers, and friends in LEO are out there doing their level best, believing they are making an impact in making this world a better place, I bet most all of us can think of several incidents in our own local precincts where LEO did horrible and corrupt things under layers of bureaucratic malfeasance and neglect, or simply under the ever present "good ol' boy" network. Trust is an absolute concept. You can't have a marriage based on 85% trust. You can't have a business partnership under 60% trust. And you certainly can't have a similar level of trust in an organization entrusted to protect, serve, and if necessary, harm and take the lives of its own group it has promised to protect, at least with any level of success.

I'm not saying all of this as an anti-LEO troll, but simply as an observer that realizes there is an issue that is going to need to be resolved, lest the organization lose all legitimacy, and extremists on either side gain a substantial majority for pushing whatever agenda they see fit.
 
I think your reading something and sometimes it doesn't make sense. The charging language is always THE STATE OF NC vs Joe Smith.
We could be talking about different things. For example, they grab someone with .5oz of MJ and the police report lists in a block marked VICTIM “The State of North Carolina”.
 
Regular everyday people need to be involved in politics. Farmers,Business owners not just people that studied politics in college or are lawyers.

This used to be the “small town America “ way of life and politics. Sadly we’re losing out to towns being incorporated by bigger cities, money hungry politicians (they all are these days IMO) and a general overall lack of morals
 
We could be talking about different things. For example, they grab someone with .5oz of MJ and the police report lists in a block marked VICTIM “The State of North Carolina”.

Yeah Police reports are basically like high school essays and are not official court records.

On the official paperwork it would be THE STATE OF NC vs Joe pot head. So since it is a state crime that is probably why it is listed as the state as a victim.
 
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This used to be the “small town America “ way of life and politics. Sadly we’re losing out to towns being incorporated by bigger cities, money hungry politicians (they all are these days IMO) and a general overall lack of morals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liars_and_Outliers

Liars and Outliers: Enabling the Trust that Society Needs to Thrive is a 2012 nonfiction book by Bruce Schneier about security in the context of a larger society.[1]

The book covers a wide array of disciplines, from game theory and security to sociologyand evolution in its attempt to explain how trust scales from a small village in which people know and trust each other to a global economy where individuals cannot possibly trust every person they must work with, but trust the systems of law and physical security instead.

The book received generally positive reviews for its combination of disparate disciplines and relevance to current events
 
Believe it or not I think you can trace a bunch of these problems back to the downward turn of Church attendance. Which I believe can be traced back to taxes and people not wanting to give to the state/feds both to help people and tithe to the church to help people as well. I think you could probably do some research and write a pretty interesting book about it all.
 
So should we work on some part of the system that isn't broken(if there are any) or the parts that are? Just asking.

We've perverted justice in this country into a game of loopholes, politics, and catering to the lowest common denominator.

I'm the type of guy that thinks if you aren't working and taking care of yourself while being a reasonable amount of decent to others you would be best served as fertilizer, so I won't have any popular opinions.
 
The state prosecuted crimes, citizens file torts. That’s the way it’s always been. The State V someone in a criminal trial “Smith v HMP” in a civil trial. So a “crime” being listed as the state as victim on those reports is probably due to who is going to be the prosecuting party.

Now, if the argument is “victimless Crimes” then I agree. Bob being caught with an ounce of weed sitting in his living room isn’t a crime to me. Two consenting adults doing some kinky stuff isn’t my business. Some dude drilling a third hole to blast a few cases of Tulammo in his back yard doesn’t bother me. So yeah, those “crimes” are moronic.


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We could be talking about different things. For example, they grab someone with .5oz of MJ and the police report lists in a block marked VICTIM “The State of North Carolina”.
The State isn't some alien overlord, it's the people. The people had somewhere along the line deemed Marijuana to be illegal (with some cajoling and misinformation thrown in from Randolph Hearst). When the people decide that it shouldn't be illegal, (Working toward it) it won't be. You don't get to decide unilaterally what laws are just or not, that comes from the collective.
 
The state prosecuted crimes, citizens file torts. That’s the way it’s always been. The State V someone in a criminal trial “Smith v HMP” in a civil trial. So a “crime” being listed as the state as victim on those reports is probably due to who is going to be the prosecuting party.

Now, if the argument is “victimless Crimes” then I agree. Bob being caught with an ounce of weed sitting in his living room isn’t a crime to me. Two consenting adults doing some kinky stuff isn’t my business. Some dude drilling a third hole to blast a few cases of Tulammo in his back yard doesn’t bother me. So yeah, those “crimes” are moronic.


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Sadly, I'd put my money on you on that legal battle.
 
Sadly, I'd put my money on you on that legal battle.

We would ens up settling amicably out of court after a duel using Roman candles and blow up unicorn costumes.


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We would ens up settling amicably out of court after a duel using Roman candles and blow up unicorn costumes.


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'amicably' and 'roman candles'... Im losing an eye that day. Dangit.
 
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I shoot with my right, but im left eye dominate.

how about my pinky toe instead? I'll trade both for one eye
 
Sorry. Dick head cops need to get fired not demoted. They (LEO's) should be held to a higher standard. After all they get to carry guns and shoot people. I hope everyone's interactions with LEO's are benign and even helpful but that has not been my experience. Illegal search and seizure. No probable cause. Planting evidence. Etc. Pardon me if I have a jaundiced eye.
 
I hope everyone's interactions with LEO's are benign and even helpful but that has not been my experience. Illegal search and seizure. No probable cause. Planting evidence.
Here's another good one. From The Captain's Journal.

It's another case of where the cops claim "they're investigating a suspicious person" who was "guilty" of recording video in public. They didn't like that he recorded pictures of their station and then used that as grounds to claim they have a "right" to demand he produce identification, and even asked for a DL and insurance (he wasn't driving). They also played the "you're not being detained but your not free to go either". Per the state code (Texas) they did not have the "right" to demand he identify himself, as in their own words he had done nothing wrong.

This isn't the first time we've seen this sort of thing; cops not liking something and making up "laws" on the fly to enforce their opinion.
 
I believe many departments do not train the officers about video recording. Some chose ignore that training and here is one of them.

 
They also played the "you're not being detained but your not free to go either".
Stop resisting.
And yeah that "not under arrest" "not free to go" thing is trouble because they corner you until you do anything even possibly illegal or make any kind of motion in which case you're game for full terry and search "for officer safety" and things go downhill from there.
After all, we all commit 3 felonies a day...
 
The main thing that bothers me in all of these types of incidences is that I get told that ignorance of the law is not an excuse while a LEO making up laws on the spot doesn't (usually) get that same treatment.
 
What is the solution?

A change in mindset. I've seen too much of an "us vs them" attitude. Referring to non-police as "civilians", Police who don't see themselves as part of the community they police, but standing apart from it, separate. Police being willing to call out bad actors in their ranks. An understanding that police are not military forces and should not engage the community as such.

I understand where that mindset comes from, but it leads to a growing separation between police and the community, and fosters distrust. We're seeing the fruits of that now.
 
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