Zenith to release their own MP5

JRHorne

JRHorne

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zenithfirearms.com

American Made MP5 Manufacturer | Subguns | Zenith Firearms

We are an American manufacturer of roller delayed blowback firearms and related parts. The ZF-5 is our version of the MP5.
zenithfirearms.com zenithfirearms.com

Manufactured in Virginia. Supposedly improved upon over the current SP5 and at a lower price. Facebook comments from them say P and K variants targeted for release Q1 of 2022.

What a time to be alive!
 
Well they did bribe a MKE official in an attempt to get the blue prints!

PS I am still waiting for my PSA MP5 to ship.
 
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BrettB said:
That’s exciting news. I would rather buy one of these than the one Century is selling
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Century guns are MKE just like the old Zenith with a new higher price.

I will wait until the beta testers report back after the first run.
 
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wvsig said:
Well they did bribe a MKE official in an attempt to get the blue prints!

PS I am still waiting for my PSA MP5 to ship.
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I didn't think the blueprints, design, or anything was a mystery, just the sheer logistics of tooling and production that was the hurdle. Guess they did the math and felt they had a good chance of releasing something notable at a profit.
 
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JRHorne said:
I didn't think the blueprints, design, or anything was a mystery, just the sheer logistics if tooling and production that was the hurdle. Guess they did the math and felt they had a good chance of releasing something notable at a profit.
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I had it backwards it was the MKE official who was trying to bribe Zeinth.

In 2015-2016, MKE’s factory manager, Mr. Tanriverdi, attempted to elicit a bribe from Zenith’s owner, Kutlay Kaya, to be given the technical data packages of the Z-series firearms and the new MPT-55 and MPT-76. When MKE’s management failed to deal with the problem, Mr. Kaya took the case to the authorities which led to the arrest and imprisonment of Mr. Tanriverdi for treason (https://www.dailysabah.com/investigations/2016/12/14/man-faces-prison-term-for-saleof-weapon-project). Instead of this action bringing forth better relations, it appeared that it was the beginning of a troubled relationship with MKE.

Yes the tooling and knowing how to weld them together is the key. From past experience it seems you need HK equipment to do it properly and consistently at any volume. People like PTR can’t do it. PSA certainly can’t do it. The only ones who have really been successful in a volume setting are MKE and POF both of whom have HK tooling.
 
Still good news. I used to live right down the street from Afton. It would be great if they could make an MP5 clone there. It be great for the industry and the area.
 
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I'm pulling for Zenith, it sounds like they got a raw deal.
 
I’m still holding my PSA MP5 money but I’ve stopped holding my breath that they’ll ever release it. Now it’s a matter of who else can do one for $1500’ish. Right now that’s just PTR and I think I’d rather a stribog in that case.
Ill definitely keep an eye out for more info on these new Zeniths.
 
Jerzsubbie said:
I’m still holding my PSA MP5 money but I’ve stopped holding my breath that they’ll ever release it. Now it’s a matter of who else can do one for $1500’ish. Right now that’s just PTR and I think I’d rather a stribog in that case.
Ill definitely keep an eye out for more info on these new Zeniths.
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Wasn't the psa one just going to be a direct blowback? Also the rumor is the project at psa was shut down.
 
Jerzsubbie said:
I’m still holding my PSA MP5 money but I’ve stopped holding my breath that they’ll ever release it. Now it’s a matter of who else can do one for $1500’ish. Right now that’s just PTR and I think I’d rather a stribog in that case.
Ill definitely keep an eye out for more info on these new Zeniths.
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Being blissfully ignorant is what keeps me loving my PTR.

I hope you guys don't ruin that.
 
Prudii said:
Wasn't the psa one just going to be a direct blowback? Also the rumor is the project at psa was shut down.
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95% sure it was supposed to be roller delayed. A blowback MP5 clone would be pretty dumb IMO.
I haven’t read up on it lately but whether they consider it shutdown or not, I think that’s a safe assumption.
 
Initially the PSA one was supposed to be straight blowback, back when it was supposed to cost less than $1000. That was dropped rather quickly (I guess they looked at the Vulcan ones and realized how dumb it was) as when they announced their first price increase for it, it was back to being a roller delayed version.

As to whether they are still planning to make it, it wouldn’t shock me either way. The MP5 is a much harder nut to crack than they initially thought, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is shuttered. Time will tell.
 
Last I read on the PSA message board the MP5 project has not been scrapped but they are making money hand over fist in AR15s and other existing platforms. All of their capacity and resources are going to proven platforms. It dos not make sense to introduce another Dagger like platform which will eat into profit because they have learned new product role outs are hard. Making roller locks is harder than they thought. LMAO
 
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wvsig said:
Last I read on the PSA message board the MP5 project has not been scrapped but they are making money hand over fist in AR15s and other existing platforms. All of their capacity and resources are going to proven platforms. It dos not make sense to introduce another Dagger like platform which will eat into profit because they have learned new product role outs are hard. Making roller locks is harder than they thought. LMAO
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I can 100% believe this. I think the really interesting thing is though, like what I assume Zenith is going to do, if they can get a variant of the platform out at a decent price, they are going to sell a large volume of them. They did it with the AKV and I believe the ARV is really catching on.

In my opinion, if there is only 1 thing that could be improved upon on the MP5 platform that would help it leapfrog back into the 21st century and make them sell a ton of them: Last round bolt hold open. If Zenith or PSA can figure that out, watch out because that would be a game changer. I have read that it isn't possible, but it isn't until it is.

The other thing that I think could be monumental: Make the MP5 platform gun that runs off Scorpion mags. I know they are wider, but I think they also would help solve the LRBHO. I know at that point you're talking about basically a brand new bottom half of the firearm, but if there was a way to do it, they'd sell millions of them. Seriously.
 
JRHorne said:
I can 100% believe this. I think the really interesting thing is though, like what I assume Zenith is going to do, if they can get a variant of the platform out at a decent price, they are going to sell a large volume of them. They did it with the AKV and I believe the ARV is really catching on.

In my opinion, if there is only 1 thing that could be improved upon on the MP5 platform that would help it leapfrog back into the 21st century and make them sell a ton of them: Last round bolt hold open. If Zenith or PSA can figure that out, watch out because that would be a game changer. I have read that it isn't possible, but it isn't until it is.

The other thing that I think could be monumental: Make the MP5 platform gun that runs off Scorpion mags. I know they are wider, but I think they also would help solve the LRBHO. I know at that point you're talking about basically a brand new bottom half of the firearm, but if there was a way to do it, they'd sell millions of them. Seriously.
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It would be really cool if someone could do a Scorpion mag lower and it be as simple as swapping out the lower only.
I know nothing about the limitations of LRBHO in the MP5 but totally agree it would bring it into the modern age.
 
Lrbho was done on the mp5 10 and 40 sw . Not needed in imho with the big cocking knob and paddle release. And some rds down range.
 
Funny enough, the Stribog with the A3 or Lingle lower checks all those boxes:
- Roller Delayed
- Scorpion mags
- LRBHO

I really need to get off my ass and order the lower and gun.
 
I wish my PTR's would screw up so I could see how they arent welded together properly on HK equipment because that is the only way a MP5 could ever be properly welded together. They just keep working and I don't know why.

g0CbY8.jpg
 
wired said:
I wish my PTR's would screw up so I could see how they arent welded together properly on HK equipment because that is the only way a MP5 could ever be properly welded together. They just keep working and I don't know why.

g0CbY8.jpg
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PTR is great when they are right. When they are not they gave a hard time getting them right. Of all the clones there are more reports of multiple trips to the factory for the same issues. Many of those are never resolved fully.

I almost rolled the dice on one but ended up with a deal on zenith.
 
wvsig said:
PTR is great when they are right. When they are not they gave a hard time getting them right. Of all the clones there are more reports of multiple trips to the factory for the same issues. Many of those are never resolved fully.

I almost rolled the dice on one but ended up with a deal on zenith.
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I went with the PTRs because they are sear ready out of the box unlike all of the imports. Mine have been 100%.
 
wired said:
I wish my PTR's would screw up so I could see how they arent welded together properly on HK equipment because that is the only way a MP5 could ever be properly welded together. They just keep working and I don't know why.

g0CbY8.jpg
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I hear so many mix things with PTR's that I don't even know what to believe anymore. First batch were the only ones with issues, customer service is poor, they're on-par with HK SP5's, they're reliable, they're finicky with certain types of ammo, people own both and say the HK is only slightly better but it'll retain value, etc.

I'd like to try my hand at one myself someday but money is tight right now. What I do know is I will still never consider the Century Arms AP5 at the price point.
 
PTR seems to be mostly good to go but occasionally has a few get through that should have been scrapped and cause headaches for their owner. They also have produced a lot more examples than most of their competitors so I don’t know how they stack up compared to others who have a much smaller sample size.

The Century guns are interesting. ATI had a bunch of problems importing MKE guns, then Zenith had issues importing them. Century seems to be importing them at a much higher price and are not known for screening their guns and making sure that they run out the door. My guess is that they won’t import very many and some reliability issues will creep up ruining MKE’s reputation stateside for a bit. The Zenith ones will probably hold their value, but the century ones will probably be considered a step below PTR by the time it is all said and done.
 
Alexander.B said:
I hear so many mix things with PTR's that I don't even know what to believe anymore. First batch were the only ones with issues, customer service is poor, they're on-par with HK SP5's, they're reliable, they're finicky with certain types of ammo, people own both and say the HK is only slightly better but it'll retain value, etc.

I'd like to try my hand at one myself someday but money is tight right now. What I do know is I will still never consider the Century Arms AP5 at the price point.
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I've owned HKs and I own PTRs . To me I see no appreciable difference.
 
wired said:
I've owned HKs and I own PTRs . To me I see no appreciable difference.
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I've shot both, own HK. Fit and finish are better on the HKs. The PTR owner agreed on the overall feel between the two firearms. They're close, but not equivalent.
 
wired said:
Dropped right in mine.
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Right but it doesn't for a lot of people. They are great when they made them right. IF they were not made correctly they can't fixe them. It is a roll of the dice.
 
Just got the email that they are opening up 250 preorder spots. MSRP $2,489. Hard pass. Guess we'll wait until they hit the block and see if they reach the ~$1,600-$1,800 range like the MKE.

zenithfirearms.com

American Made Mp5 | Semi Auto Mp5 | Mp5 Pistol For Sale

The ZF-5 is a semi-auto MP5 style platform featuring a roller-delayed blowback operating system, Pic rail, & a cold hammer-forged barrel. Get your American-made MP5 at Zenith Firearms.
zenithfirearms.com zenithfirearms.com
 
I realize I’m cheap but $2500 for a clone??! No thanks.
Hopefully that’s more a function of the current market.
 
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wired said:
I doubt you're going to see $1600 Zeniths in your lifetime again
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Many on here said the same thing about the Colt LE6920s being $600, and literally 6 months almost to the day after I went back and forth with a few folks on here, I bought 3 LE6920s from retailers for just over $600.

I have faith!
 
JRHorne said:
Many on here said the same thing about the Colt LE6920s being $600, and literally 6 months almost to the day after I went back and forth with a few folks on here, I bought 3 LE6920s from retailers for just over $600.

I have faith!
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Have you noticed the 6920s are back and are already down around $850-900?
 
wvsig said:
Have you noticed the 6920s are back and are already down around $850-900?
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I did. I saw a few retailers asking just over $1,000 for them with Magpul furniture and an MBUS rear. I'm betting Black Friday deals this year are going to be like 2017 and 2018 again, but ammo is still going to be crap.
 
JRHorne said:
I did. I saw a few retailers asking just over $1,000 for them with Magpul furniture and an MBUS rear. I'm betting Black Friday deals this year are going to be like 2017 and 2018 again, but ammo is still going to be crap.
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I am already seeing the prices of guns normalizing. Glocks are no longer being sold at MSRP. I personally think the run is over and within a year we will be in a market where over production drives prices down. I agree on ammo because there are other factors which are slowing production and driving up price. I also think there are going to be a ton of LNIB used guns come Christmas time being sold in the BST areas of forums when people need $$$ to buy Jr the Gi Joe with the kung fu grip and they realize that gun they had to have is still sitting unshot in the box it came it.
 
wvsig said:
I am already seeing the prices of guns normalizing. Glocks are no longer being sold at MSRP. I personally think the run is over and within a year we will be in a market where over production drives prices down. I agree on ammo because there are other factors which are slowing production and driving up price. I also think there are going to be a ton of LNIB used guns come Christmas time being sold in the BST areas of forums when people need $$$ to buy Jr the Gi Joe with the kung fu grip and they realize that gun they had to have is still sitting unshot in the box it came it.
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The Christmas Theory has been something a few buddies and I have been discussing since 2011. It's almost a given. The cycle goes: have your money ready to snatch up deals starting in November, then unload anything you don't want in February and March when people get their tax returns.
 
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