Typical sounds-good-in-theory-but-doesn't-hold-water comment.
Try this one: Penny auctions are bad because the public will realize if they don't increase the bid someone gets the item for a penny. eBay is laughing at you.
Competition will prevail.
I'm really glad I quit flying United years ago
- Thread starter Don
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Typical sounds-good-in-theory-but-doesn't-hold-water comment.
Try this one: Penny auctions are bad because the public will realize if they don't increase the bid someone gets the item for a penny. eBay is laughing at you.
Competition will prevail.
Said it more elegantly than me, but yeah.
OP
Found this on FB:
From: Jay Caragay
Here's a video from the moments before the UA3411 incident.
Based on the content of the video, it looks like they were on an Embraer E170 aircraft which, according to Seat Guru, carries 70 passengers in First (6), Economy Plus (16) and Economy (48). The E170 is a smaller, regional jet aircraft instead of UA's mainline B737 or B757 aircraft, which can carry about twice the number of passengers. It looks like they are seated towards the back of the plane.
Listening to the video, we hear the doctor tell security flat out that he will not comply and disembark the aircraft. For many people, this will be enough but the key part is to listen closely towards the end of the video where the doctor is explaining that he has patients to see and that he has to report to work in the morning.
But the critical part, I think, is when he states that he was in LAX (Los Angeles) and that he has been traveling for 24 hours. Twenty-four hours is a long time to be traveling and it's something I do a few times a year - both are details that tell me that he's probably just come from a trip to Asia, and most probably took a 12-15 hour flight from an origin point in Asia to LAX.
A review of LAX-SDF flight data from FlightAware.com shows an LAX-ORD flight on UA1450, connecting to the ORD-SDF flight on UA3411, with a 1 hour 11 minute connection in ORD.
Presuming that he did indeed come from Asia, the shortest flight to LAX would be from NRT (10 hours) or HKG (13h50m). Since it's been revealed that he is Vietnamese, we could also presume that he was visiting family in Vietnam. If that's the case, perhaps he departed on EVA Air (a Star Alliance carrier) from Ho Chi Minh City and flew to LAX via TPE - a 17h50m journey. Add in a 2 hour stop in LAX and the doctor could very easily have been traveling for over 24 hours by the time he boarded the E170 at ORD.
The ORD-SDF flight is a one hour flight. By this point, the doctor probably just wants to get home and climb into his bed. Anyone traveling that far for that long would want the same.
Bearing this in mind, I can completely understand why this guy lost it. He just wants to get home and when you tell him you're going to force him off the plane and maybe force him to wait until the next morning - I think most anyone would have a fit.
Consider: they took four people off that flight. The other couple, presumably, easily complied. Chances are they were starting their journey at ORD. They hadn't been traveling for 24 hours straight. It's easier for them.
As someone who travels those kinds of distances on a somewhat regular basis, I understand the difficulty and frustration of delays. In his mind, he's probably wondering why they couldn't find some other couple who hadn't been traveling for 24 hours. You're tired, fatigued and not in the best state of mind. You haven't slept, you haven't been comfortable and yes, you kind of just want to die - especially, if they're forcibly removing you from the aircraft.
The more you put the pieces together, the more all of this makes more sense.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
Y'all can whine and moan about him being an ass all you want to. And this from a group that also whines and moans about "sheeple" being led to the slaughter. Make up your minds folks, you can't have it both ways.Here's a video from the moments before the UA3411 incident.
Based on the content of the video, it looks like they were on an Embraer E170 aircraft which, according to Seat Guru, carries 70 passengers in First (6), Economy Plus (16) and Economy (48). The E170 is a smaller, regional jet aircraft instead of UA's mainline B737 or B757 aircraft, which can carry about twice the number of passengers. It looks like they are seated towards the back of the plane.
Listening to the video, we hear the doctor tell security flat out that he will not comply and disembark the aircraft. For many people, this will be enough but the key part is to listen closely towards the end of the video where the doctor is explaining that he has patients to see and that he has to report to work in the morning.
But the critical part, I think, is when he states that he was in LAX (Los Angeles) and that he has been traveling for 24 hours. Twenty-four hours is a long time to be traveling and it's something I do a few times a year - both are details that tell me that he's probably just come from a trip to Asia, and most probably took a 12-15 hour flight from an origin point in Asia to LAX.
A review of LAX-SDF flight data from FlightAware.com shows an LAX-ORD flight on UA1450, connecting to the ORD-SDF flight on UA3411, with a 1 hour 11 minute connection in ORD.
Presuming that he did indeed come from Asia, the shortest flight to LAX would be from NRT (10 hours) or HKG (13h50m). Since it's been revealed that he is Vietnamese, we could also presume that he was visiting family in Vietnam. If that's the case, perhaps he departed on EVA Air (a Star Alliance carrier) from Ho Chi Minh City and flew to LAX via TPE - a 17h50m journey. Add in a 2 hour stop in LAX and the doctor could very easily have been traveling for over 24 hours by the time he boarded the E170 at ORD.
The ORD-SDF flight is a one hour flight. By this point, the doctor probably just wants to get home and climb into his bed. Anyone traveling that far for that long would want the same.
Bearing this in mind, I can completely understand why this guy lost it. He just wants to get home and when you tell him you're going to force him off the plane and maybe force him to wait until the next morning - I think most anyone would have a fit.
Consider: they took four people off that flight. The other couple, presumably, easily complied. Chances are they were starting their journey at ORD. They hadn't been traveling for 24 hours straight. It's easier for them.
As someone who travels those kinds of distances on a somewhat regular basis, I understand the difficulty and frustration of delays. In his mind, he's probably wondering why they couldn't find some other couple who hadn't been traveling for 24 hours. You're tired, fatigued and not in the best state of mind. You haven't slept, you haven't been comfortable and yes, you kind of just want to die - especially, if they're forcibly removing you from the aircraft.
The more you put the pieces together, the more all of this makes more sense.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
He bought a ticket. Yes, there are weasel words in there, but he had every right to expect to fly home. United should have raised the payment until someone took it. $1000 is a lot to a lot of people. They'd get a taker not long after 800. Even if it was 2000, it's on them to account for that in how much they overbook and optimize the tradeoff. Not the docs fault or problem. Or shouldn't have been.
Plus he's 69 years old. No one needs to be hurt and humiliated like that let alone an elderly. I sincerely hope UA and the airport police pay dearly for it. A few of these people need to be re-accommodated.
I stopped driving everywhere because those dang Left Lane Bandits were making things difficult
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You can beat the crime, but you can't beat the ride.
He had choices, and he chose poorly.
I beg to differ as he will be looking like this soon
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Right, because doing the same thing the others did would've been so rewarding?
I'll bet the resulting lawsuit/settlement lasts him far longer than the pain and inconvenience will, and rightly so.
You'd have to throw away your moral compass before it would make sense.
This is a perfect example of how people are becoming programmed to mindlessly accept that arbitrary rules, regulations, stipulations, and outright manipulation and violence are not only acceptable, but necessary in order to maintain societal order under the rule of law. To hell with any sensibility, just be a good little sheep and lick the Man's hand when he's done beating you, or else you're just the same as those criminals who burn and loot businesses to protest violence by the constabulary.
Makes it easier to understand how our freedom gets eroded though, it's just another variation on the old, "Well, they're not going after my hunting rifle, so why should I care if they want to ban high capacity magazines?".
BurnedOutGeek
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Let you know how it goes tomorrow... Lol
If anything happens, don't let anyone raise their hand when they ask "Is there a doctor on board?".
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I'll be wearing a CFF shirt just in case I get to make the news
You should take a small bottle of red food coloring too. Wait for the flight attendant to leave your row, squirt the food coloring all over your face and fall into the aisle screaming.
We will await the results.
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According to the seat map, i shouldn't have to worry about anything. The downside is if I do get tossed off it wont be far enough for anyone to get any food video. I'm in 1E so it's like 5 feet to the door, and I damn sure don't want to be on the floor in Newark airport, that's just nasty.
OP
CASS SUNSTEIN: A Simple Way to Ease the Pain of Airline Overbooking.
How about ban involuntary bumps entirely, and make the airlines bargain with passengers if they want them to surrender the seats they bought?
But also bear in mind that the United flight wasn’t overbooked. They just kicked the guy out of his seat because they wanted it for someone else.
Posted at 8:30 am by Glenn Reynolds
What this whole thing boils down to is this: Piss Poor Planning (or execution i.e.: not notifying the gate agent in a timely manner of the problem) on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
In 1968, economist Julian Simon offered an ingenious solution. Whenever planes are overbooked, airlines should run an auction, in which passengers specify the lowest amount they would accept to be bumped, and airlines take the lowest bidders.
Simon’s approach would have the advantage of ensuring that passengers would not be bumped unless the compensation was adequate by their own lights. And indeed the current system of voluntary bumping (which starts with low offers, which increase if no one accepts them) draws on his proposal. But a full-scale auction would be difficult to administer, not to mention confusing and stressful for people who are just trying to get from one place to another.
Here are two simpler proposals.
First, the Department of Transportation should make it clear that the figures in the 2011 regulations are just the minimum, and that airlines are free to give higher amounts to involuntarily bumped passengers. That approach would have the advantage of allowing a kind of market competition.
Second, the department should initiate a new rule-making process, asking for public comments on a different approach. The simplest option would be to eliminate the $650 and $1,300 maximums, so that involuntarily bumped passengers get double the cost of their ticket for short delays, and quadruple the amount for longer delays. Another possibility would be to include legal floors, so that passengers would get (say) at least $600 for short delays, and at least $1,200 for longer ones.
Simon’s approach would have the advantage of ensuring that passengers would not be bumped unless the compensation was adequate by their own lights. And indeed the current system of voluntary bumping (which starts with low offers, which increase if no one accepts them) draws on his proposal. But a full-scale auction would be difficult to administer, not to mention confusing and stressful for people who are just trying to get from one place to another.
Here are two simpler proposals.
First, the Department of Transportation should make it clear that the figures in the 2011 regulations are just the minimum, and that airlines are free to give higher amounts to involuntarily bumped passengers. That approach would have the advantage of allowing a kind of market competition.
Second, the department should initiate a new rule-making process, asking for public comments on a different approach. The simplest option would be to eliminate the $650 and $1,300 maximums, so that involuntarily bumped passengers get double the cost of their ticket for short delays, and quadruple the amount for longer delays. Another possibility would be to include legal floors, so that passengers would get (say) at least $600 for short delays, and at least $1,200 for longer ones.
How about ban involuntary bumps entirely, and make the airlines bargain with passengers if they want them to surrender the seats they bought?
But also bear in mind that the United flight wasn’t overbooked. They just kicked the guy out of his seat because they wanted it for someone else.
Posted at 8:30 am by Glenn Reynolds
What this whole thing boils down to is this: Piss Poor Planning (or execution i.e.: not notifying the gate agent in a timely manner of the problem) on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
OP
Ok nonbelievers. Try this on for size:
UH OH: United Airlines Didn’t Have The Legal Right To Eject The Doctor From His Seat. “Since the flight was not actually overbooked, but instead only fully booked, with the exact number of passengers as seats available, United Airlines had no legal right to force any passengers to give up their seats to prioritize others. What United did was give preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a. Since Dr. Dao was already seated, it was clear that his seat had already been ‘reserved’ and ‘confirmed’ to accommodate him specifically. . . . A United Airlines spokesperson said that since Dr. Dao refused to give up his seat and leave the plane voluntarily, airline employees “had to” call upon airport security to force him to comply. However, since the flight was not overbooked, United Airlines had no legal right to give his seat to another passenger. In United Airline’s Contract of Service, they list the reasons that a passenger may be refused service, many of which are reasonable, such as “failure to pay” or lacking “proof of identity.” Nowhere in the terms of service does United Airlines claim to have unilateral authority to refuse service to anyone, for any reason (which would be illegal anyway).”
I thought that taking things from people they belong to, and giving them to people you like better, was the essence of our political system.
Posted at 7:57 am by Glenn Reynolds
UH OH: United Airlines Didn’t Have The Legal Right To Eject The Doctor From His Seat. “Since the flight was not actually overbooked, but instead only fully booked, with the exact number of passengers as seats available, United Airlines had no legal right to force any passengers to give up their seats to prioritize others. What United did was give preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a. Since Dr. Dao was already seated, it was clear that his seat had already been ‘reserved’ and ‘confirmed’ to accommodate him specifically. . . . A United Airlines spokesperson said that since Dr. Dao refused to give up his seat and leave the plane voluntarily, airline employees “had to” call upon airport security to force him to comply. However, since the flight was not overbooked, United Airlines had no legal right to give his seat to another passenger. In United Airline’s Contract of Service, they list the reasons that a passenger may be refused service, many of which are reasonable, such as “failure to pay” or lacking “proof of identity.” Nowhere in the terms of service does United Airlines claim to have unilateral authority to refuse service to anyone, for any reason (which would be illegal anyway).”
I thought that taking things from people they belong to, and giving them to people you like better, was the essence of our political system.
Posted at 7:57 am by Glenn Reynolds
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I hope he sues them big time! That's ridiculous what happened to him.
Chuckman
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At amusement parks they have those roller coaster carriages out in the front of the ride for you to see if you fit. If you don't, you don't ride. Should be the same way (or buy two seats).
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It almost started early. I've got a first class ticket on an 8pm flight, got here about an hour ago trying to get on one of the 3 earlier flights before the 8pm one. They're wanting to charge me $175 change fee. GFY! Flying without status on any airline sucks, flying without status on united means you pay for EVERYTHING at least twice. See y'all around 9:30ish... F-united
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Oh hell. They just made a announcement for one of their "jump seaters" to go to the podium. Lol
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There's still a chance!
3rd person has come up to bitch about something back in coach. So far through, no fight club...
3rd person has come up to bitch about something back in coach. So far through, no fight club...
drypowder
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LOL, look at you, you first class bourgeoisie snob.
Damn coach proletariat, just shove 'em all into the baggage compartment with the luggage and animals!
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The jump seater just showed up here in the empty first class seat from back in coach. There's some gratitude for being a UA frequent flyer. Give it to the deadhead genius.
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LOL, look at you, you first class bourgeoisie snob.
Damn coach proletariat, just shove 'em all into the baggage compartment with the luggage and animals!
That would give us more room
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Dammit. Door is shut and no fight club to speak of. Grrrrr
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Give it a minute. When they realize you've not switched to airplane mode after the door has been shut, you'll get the "grab the nose and lead him off" Three Stooges style.
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See the last post from @drypowder that applies to this as well. Hahahahahaha
LOL, look at you, you first class bourgeoisie snob.
Damn coach proletariat, just shove 'em all into the baggage compartment with the luggage and animals!
This made me chuckle pretty hard, thanks man