3-Gun....Why have you stopped, or, why have you never tried it?

Tim

Tim

Checked Out
Staff member
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Vendor
Multi-Factor Enabled
Joined
Dec 17, 2016
Messages
16,612
Location
A Glass Cage of Emotion
Rating - 100%
85   0   0
I am contemplating starting up a new 3-Gun match here in WNC and want to see what folks are looking for.

When I started in 3-Gun it was all about hanging out with the guys and gals for a day, shooting and having fun. It seems in the last few years it's gotten to be a real arms race with folks more worried about the name on their jersey and place on the prize table, and less about laughing and having a good time.

I have an idea for a match that is focused on fun and fellowship rather than Sponsor's Jersey's and Prize tables.

So...I'd like to hear from folks that would be interested in a match. What would be the draw to get you to come out, come back or give it a try for the first time?
 
Tim said:
I am contemplating starting up a new 3-Gun match here in WNC and want to see what folks are looking for.

When I started in 3-Gun it was all about hanging out with the guys and gals for a day, shooting and having fun. It seems in the last few years it's gotten to be a real arms race with folks more worried about the name on their jersey and place on the prize table, and less about laughing and having a good time.

I have an idea for a match that is focused on fun and fellowship rather than Sponsor's Jersey's and Prize tables.

So...I'd like to hear from folks that would be interested in a match. What would be the draw to get you to come out, come back or give it a try for the first time?
Click to expand...
I never shot it much but I tapped out years ago when it became more of an equipment race. The shotgun tubes got longer and more unwieldy and ridiculous. I want a match where I run the stuff I keep for defensive purposes.
 
Essentially I'd like to see a match where you can show up with an AR with 30 round mags. A G17, and a 6 or 7 round pump or autoloader and be competitive. Seems like the sport has gone to "let me not ever have to reload on a stage, ever."
 
Cheap ammo🤣



All kidding aside. I've never known/heard of one this side of Asheville or even close. I'd like to try them out.

I would be in for a more informal type layout. Sort of a beginners match. I am positive I would be at the bottom of the pack lol. So "simple" stages would be preferred. Just to get a good feel/idea of how it works.

I understand that experienced competitors (or just better shooters than me) like the longer, more technical stages. I also understand the effort it takes to set up any match.

That's just me.
 
I like 3 gun and I have shot a monthly 3 gun match nearly every month for the last 2 years. Most folks are pretty normal and shoot normal-ish stuff. It does not matter what sport there will always be someone that buys the most expensive toys with all of the extra accessories. Doesn’t mean they will win. I have watched numerous mag fed shotguns fail to make it through a match.
Also give up the idea that you have to “win” instead use it as more of a training opportunity And time with your buddies having FUN.
As far as if you want to start a match , keep the rules open to allow folks to run what they have. Have different divisions and these don’t have to line up with up UML or 3-Gun rules. You will probably get more people to show up keeping it a little flexible. Most important keep it fun
 
What would you think of an “open squadding” setup? Meaning, there are RSOs dedicated to each stage, and you shoot the stages in whatever order you and your buddies want? Instead of rotating with a single squad for the entire match?
 
Tim said:
What would you think of an “open squadding” setup? Meaning, there are RSOs dedicated to each stage, and you shoot the stages in whatever order you and your buddies want? Instead of rotating with a single squad for the entire match?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure how this would work. We’ve all seen things go south and get backed up with orderly dedicated squads, would the open squad just be a free for all?

Who pastes and sets steel? How do you get a rhythm going?
 
There is a great interview with Ken Hackathorn on YT about the beginnings of IPSC and the First 3 Gun Match. It was at an early Soldier of Fortune convention. Colonel Brown asked to to organize it. He did and they were off to the races. Check it out. Great shooting sports history.

The ONE thing that Ken said he would change?????? No SHOTGUN!!
 
RR said:
Essentially I'd like to see a match where you can show up with an AR with 30 round mags. A G17, and a 6 or 7 round pump or autoloader and be competitive. Seems like the sport has gone to "let me not ever have to reload on a stage, ever."
Click to expand...
This is the spirit I’m after.
 
RR said:
Essentially I'd like to see a match where you can show up with an AR with 30 round mags. A G17, and a 6 or 7 round pump or autoloader and be competitive. Seems like the sport has gone to "let me not ever have to reload on a stage, ever."
Click to expand...
Pretty much this ^^^^

That sounds like a Practical 3 Gun match more than a Tacticool 3 Gun match ... Stock Class or such like you say where you use the gear you’d use at home if ever needed.
 
Tim said:
What would you think of an “open squadding” setup? Meaning, there are RSOs dedicated to each stage, and you shoot the stages in whatever order you and your buddies want? Instead of rotating with a single squad for the entire match?
Click to expand...
I know this works for simple formulaic fast moving setups like a Glock match. But it does not play with with the fellowship aspect you're looking for.
 
Left field, but I think it'd be cool if there were a metric for destruction, like a slab of meat or something. If I show up with my bolt 270, s/a 44mag, and 12 pump, I sure won't be fast like the ar15 guys, but there won't be much target left.. 😁
 
Never tried it because I didn’t have a semi auto shotgun. Then I bought one and realized reloading shotgun is difficult. If you’re slow, you lose. I never spent the time to learn to load faster.
 
Last edited:
Jerzsubbie said:
Never tried it because I didn’t have a semi auto shotgun. Then I bought one and realized reloading shotgun is difficult. If you’re slow, you loose. I never spent the time to learn to load faster.
Click to expand...
Shotgun reloads are definitely a key to winning most matches.
 
Here are the divisions I’m considering:

Open - anything goes

Practical
Rifle: .223/7.62x39 or similar at MD discretion, single optic
Pistol - any non-magnum, RDS OK, 140mm magazine length
Shotgun - tube fed, Max 8+1 capacity

Factory / AKA the @RR Division
Rifle: .223/7.62x39, Iron Sights or single non-magnified optic, Max 30rd magazine
Pistol: Max 15 rounds (loaded, actual capacity could vary)
Shotgun: tube fed, Max 6+1

2-Gun
Practical rules, no shotgun

Youth (16 and under)
Run what ya brung!
 
Last edited:
Tim said:
What would you think of an “open squadding” setup? Meaning, there are RSOs dedicated to each stage, and you shoot the stages in whatever order you and your buddies want? Instead of rotating with a single squad for the entire match?
Click to expand...
Yes! This is kind of how PHA’s 2-gun match was run for years and it worked quite well IMO. You could start at stage 3 and finish at stage 2. I shot the match for 5yr+ and RO’ed a dozen times. Sign up sheets for each squad, get there early to get on the squad you want with your friends. Even when they went to online, still sign up early to get squadded with your friends.

Another thing I really liked about PHA’s match was the focus on it being newbie friendly and for fun. No prizes, just bragging rights. It was also only $5-10 to enter.
 
Last edited:
I used to do the two gun match down at PHA a decent amount, and the CQTAS match when I could. The main reason I stopped initially was time due to family obligations, taking most of a Saturday to go shoot was difficult. Recently it has mainly been about ammo prices, I’ll admit. Most the matches were around 100-150 rifle and 50 or so pistol...more or less depending on skill, so usually more for me. Back then, 200 rounds of .223 was around $50, and about $10 or less for the pistol. Shotgun never had many shells in those matches, so that was, and still is negligible.

So runnin a match cost me about $80 bucks when all said and done. With ammonia prices what they are, it would probably be about double. So, $160 bucks to shoot just isn’t quite as fun for me.

And I get it...it’s great practice and a whole lot of fun with the boys. I still need to shoot more, but $20 a mag for the AR takes some steam out.

And to me, the fun of it was totally in the volume of fire. I enjoyed being able to blast away as opposed to just slow fire at a single targe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Tentative Schedule:

- (optional) Friday 4/23, Evening : Low Light Bonus Stage and FREE “How to shoot a 3-Gun Match” mini-clinic with stage walk throughs. Bonfire, Burgers and on-site camping

- Saturday 4/24
9ish - Registration
9:30 - New(ish) shooter Safety Brief and “How To” mini clinic with 1 stage walk through
10:00 safety brief
10:15 Rounds down range

Throughout - food truck or catered lunch on site

4pm Wrap up, Awards

After Bonfire, cookout and pass the bottle
 
Last edited:
PAR TIMES!!!!

I HATE PAR TIMES!!!

some of the matches I shoot are designed by seriously good shooters that practically do this for a living. For a schlub like me, I time out and don’t get to finish a stage. Screw that. I paid to shoot, let me shoot the stage!

So, no par times in my match. *MAYBE* we’ll have a “1 magazine rule” for long range rifle stages, but I don’t want a shooter hearing a *beep* and being told to stop.
 
Last edited:
IM IN. Whats a round count looking like and how many stages.

I shot 3 gun for a few years and even shot FN 3gun Championship in 2012 that was epic. Got to meet all the big names.

Family obligations stopped me along with the cost of the matches. It quickly escalated to a money race where unlimited ammo and sponsor paid entry fees made it tough to have a 300 plus dollar weekend when all said and done.


Also. I started 3 gun and pretty much always ran my Benelli Supernova pump 12ga. It was fun beating those guys with nice autos.

Some videos on my youtube.




Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Gotta give my 2 cents, cuz I love 3 gun.
I don’t shoot it anymore because there is now one local match. And it’s packed with 3GUN NATION TEAM VORTEX SUPERSQUAD Jersey goofs. It also has a bunch of normal hacks like me and lots of dudes from Bragg. Just hard for me to justify all the gear for one match.

On why nobody shoots it:
It’s the shotgun. Nobody wants to spend the time to learn how to load or shoot one. They want to bang out a tubeful and move on.

On longer tubes “taking over”: in 3gun you can only load 8 in your tube to start. So, if their are 36 shotguns targets (common in 3gun), you will have to load all those rounds. Doesn’t matter if you have a 36 round super tube. You still have to load all those into the tube on the clock and shoot them out. You don’t get to load up a huge tube and never have to load. Actually, you have to load A LOT of shells and MDs specifically design stages so you have to do this.

So an 8 round tube is not a huge disadvantage, especially if you are incapable of loading a quad load. Or even a a simple dual. A 12+ tube will just give you more options of where you can load in the stage. But if you can’t even quad load, then a million round tube will not help you. You have to at least load duals. This is not difficult and can be learned in an hour or two.

The reality is people just don’t want to learn how to do that. Or buy the carriers required.
I used to think 3gun was a “shotgun loading contest”. This is because I sucked at shotguns. In truth, 3gun requires you be competent with all three guns. This means you have to learn how to load duals and quads, and you have to have a basic shotgun that will hold at least 8 in the tube. You also have to have a good understanding of chokes/patterns as well as loads, AND be able to hit slug targets out to 100 yards or more. 3gun is difficult and made to be difficult. Around here, we got world champions shooting right next to you. They are designing matches for them, not for us hacks.

All that said: to make 3gun accessible: you have to have stages where people do not have to load shotgun at all on the clock. Just use the shotgun as a prop that gets a mag tube fired and then dumped in a barrel. Which is fine with me. That is fun as well, and would be waaaay more likely to get populated with shooters just trying to have some fun and get acquainted with their 870 or 590.
You also have to be looser on divisional rules. Like guns/optics/etc.

Would love to see a more chill/friendly 3gun. I think most would be surprised how much they enjoy the shotgun! Shotgun is what I found I enjoyed the most, which I never expected.

Just my opinions.
 
Tim said:
Here are the divisions I’m considering:

Open - anything goes

Practical
Rifle: .223/7.62x39 or similar at MD discretion, single optic
Pistol - any non-magnum, RDS OK, 140mm magazine length
Shotgun - tube fed, Max 8+1 capacity

Factory / AKA the @RR Division
Rifle: .223/7.62x39, Iron Sights or single non-magnified optic, Max 30rd magazine
Pistol: Max 15 rounds (loaded, actual capacity could vary)
Shotgun: tube fed, Max 6+1

2-Gun
Practical rules, no shotgun

Youth (16 and under)
Run what ya brung!
Click to expand...

Missed this. A good start for sure!
 
NKD said:
Man, 2 gun is awesome. There needs to be more of this. Everyone has an AR and a pistol.
Click to expand...
Not until very recently.
I see another rabbit hole to go down. I want to get back into competition, shot SASS for years.
Travel, ammo and components shortages, along with personal injury got me out some ten years ago.
Looks like fun and I would like to try it. If I can I'll be there.
 
I really like this. I've wanted to get into competitive shooting but to be honest, it seems like such a huge hurdle to overcome to just get involved in the first place. I'm totally down for a friendly practical/stock 2 or 3-gun match.
 
I did the IPSC and the Glock matches in the mid to late 90's. That is until I bought my first house, then my priorities changed. IDPA was in it's infancy and I never got around to doing a match but it felt practical and I wanted to.

I went to a couple of Cowboy matches, as a spectator, and was made to feel welcome there as it was populated by the friends I had from the IPSC days and others who were there in the spirit of fun. Just never participated.

Went to watch a 3 gun match in Statesville once and felt like a troll who left his bridge and walked through the market picking his nose.

I could be be enticed to try again with some normal folks.
 
Could there be a classic division for 1945 and before stuff? Its pretty popular for the inrange brutality matches to do themed loadouts.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom