3-Gun....Why have you stopped, or, why have you never tried it?

Tim said:
This will be a FUN match...as such, I’m going to allow coaching for new shooters. A 300 yard shot on an IDPA steel target is a chip shot. I LOVE LOVE LOVE getting a new user to “just try it” and see their faces light up when they hear the “ping!” With a 25yd zero, hold top edge of the target and let ‘er rip!
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Being a NEW shooter (ie, other then the rare use of shotguns, I have only started shooting this Jan), this is EXTREMELY exciting to hear for me. I'm going to have to go find a rifle now if this is going to happen, lol!
 
RazorWing said:
Being a NEW shooter (ie, other then the rare use of shotguns, I have only started shooting this Jan), this is EXTREMELY exciting to hear for me. I'm going to have to go find a rifle now if this is going to happen, lol!
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Come on out. We'll have a rifle for you to borrow.*

A runner that happens to be a forum member ran the Night Ops Run-n-Gun with a borrowed rifle last weekend.


*Assuming you're not an idiot.
 
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I've never tried any type of 2 or 3 gun match and after reading these pages I think I'll just stay where I'm at. I imagine it is a lot of fun but I prefer to lay on my belly and snipe while sipping on a cool one. "Hey, could someone move that umbrella and cooler a bit closer. It's getting warm out here".:D

I imagine the cost of acquiring, maintaining and feeding two to three weapons for the same competitive match is about the same as running one long range rifle. But then again, perhaps not. See the link below! 🤣

I'm not sure what the future holds, but shooting up ammo like we did in the past may not return for a long time. I hope all of the shooting sports, regardless of what one enjoys, will always be economically available to the average Joe and Jane out there.

 
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RazorWing said:
Being a NEW shooter (ie, other then the rare use of shotguns, I have only started shooting this Jan), this is EXTREMELY exciting to hear for me. I'm going to have to go find a rifle now if this is going to happen, lol!
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Rifles can be borrowed. If this happens. Ill probably bring and extra rifle or two and same with shotguns and pistols.

You just need to provide your own ammo and a smiling face.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
NKD said:
But don't you want good shooters to show up? And don't you want to see good technique?
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I do!! I endorse that fully, and I support this effort.






Tim said:
I am contemplating starting up a new 3-Gun match here in WNC and want to see what folks are looking for.


So...I'd like to hear from folks that would be interested in a match. What would be the draw to get you to come out, come back or give it a try for the first time?
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How many shooters can you accommodate? (How big is your match roster going to be?)

Who is going to make up the roster majority of your target "customers"? 3-Gun Community? CFF Community? etc,etc,

Answers to these questions may give you some good info for the direction you take your match.



NKD said:
All that said: to make 3gun accessible: you have to have stages where people do not have to load shotgun at all on the clock. Just use the shotgun as a prop that gets a mag tube fired and then dumped in a barrel. Which is fine with me. That is fun as well, and would be waaaay more likely to get populated with shooters just trying to have some fun and get acquainted with their 870 or 590.
You also have to be looser on divisional rules. Like guns/optics/etc.
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At least 10 folks from here on CFF expressed interest in shooting a match that they could run their HD gear in a practical HD -type match. I think more first timers /new folks would do this if they can make it make sense both economically and time-wise. Come shoot 4-5 low round count stages and be done by 1pm. They can afford to run the match, and return for the next one. Maybe have 2 matches..(?)
a CFF match and a full blown bad a$$ 3-gun match...




maven said:
Ultimately, you have to build a match based on your market of shooters.
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This ^^^
 
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Spartan01 said:
Here is my idea.
I listened to David Goggins on JRE podcast and became obsessed with building an insane race based on 3 Gun, just way harder.

I wanted to call it The Bad Man.

Each competitor starts with a minimum approved load out of pistol, shotgun, rifle, a full magazine for each weapon and 9 rounds of 1 oz. slugs for the shotgun, canteen full of water, and a cinder block. This is in addition to any ammo and equipment you will need to compete.
At the end of the race, to score any points at all, you must present the intact cinder block, a full canteen of water, all weapons, along with a full mag for each, and 9 rounds for the shotgun. This is minimum, you can add to it if you want.

the race would be something like this:
You run 5 miles with all your gear.
You hit a shooting stage, then run a mile in between.
After shooting is completed you run 5 miles back to the start.

Any takers?
I think it’s sounds awesome and also ridiculous.
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See also, the Tactical Games. No shotty, I think, but rifle and pistol.
 
Here's a question related to 3gun type competition. I know they sometime position targets such that steel needs to fall to reveal further targets. Has it ever been done where the target in front needs to be shot through (destroyed) to reach the further target? Say something like a cinderblock hiding a steel plate? Seems like it would impart experience useful outside of the game.
 
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Hashknife said:
At least 10 folks from here on CFF expressed interest in shooting a match that they could run their HD gear in a practical HD -type match. I think more first timers /new folks would do this if they can make it make sense both economically and time-wise. Come shoot 4-5 low round count stages and be done by 1pm. They can afford to run the match, and return for the next one. Maybe have 2 matches..(?)
a CFF match and a full blown bad a$$ 3-gun match...
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I agree, nobody asking for a “badass 3gun match”.
But a “home defense” type match wouldn’t involve 3 guns. It would involve one gun and probably be like 3-5 shots total.

For example: in the video above with the young lady shooting a stage, there is nothing I see there that is any way a specific “home defense”. It’s just eliminating important techniques like reloading the guns involved. And adds in a lot of long running without regard to cover or concealment. It looks fun and fun is GREAT, but there is nothing there that makes it more “defensive shooting”.

Just thinking out loud. I think FUN and safe and accessible is precisely what Tim is going for here. Fun is okay no? Improving your shooting on a clock is improving your shooting for home defense or anything else. Just my opinions!
 
NKD said:
Just thinking out loud. I think FUN and safe and accessible is precisely what Tim is going for here. Fun is okay no? Improving your shooting on a clock is improving your shooting for home defense or anything else. Just my opinions!
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Bingo!

Multi-Gun matches are ultimately a game. Yes, there are training elements and you ABSOLUTELY benefit from things like transitions and reloads under stress, but these are not intended to be “home defense training” evolutions.

If that’s what you’re after, @VOD Tactical DOES SOME OUTSTANDING CLASSES.
 
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Timfoilhat said:
Say something like a cinderblock hiding a steel plate
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Gah! I’d hate to be the one having to clean up 50 destroyed cinderblocks at the end of a match! But maybe a “shoot through” cardboard target into a steel/clay would be an idea.
 
I kitted up to shoot a 3 gun match a couple times. Once it was raining when we got there and the other time I decided to watch instead of shoot. On 1 stage they had targets set in front of the side berms and I could see peoples heads thru the trees over the top of the berms on the adjoining range. I never went back. How they didnt kill somebody I'll never know. I'm now an OFWG and I shoot benchrest.
 
jimmyjames8 said:
I kitted up to shoot a 3 gun match a couple times. Once it was raining when we got there and the other time I decided to watch instead of shoot. On 1 stage they had targets set in front of the side berms and I could see peoples heads thru the trees over the top of the berms on the adjoining range. I never went back. How they didnt kill somebody I'll never know. I'm now an OFWG and I shoot benchrest.
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That's crazy. Tell us what 3gun match it is so we can all avoid it, too.

Seeing that at one match certainly doesn't mean ALL 3gun matches are like that, lol.
 
Here's what I'm thinking about to balance my hatred of Par Times with the reality of needing to keep things moving along. It also ties in really well to the ammo shortage.

I'm going to limit ammo count per stage. Not fewer targets, fewer misses! We'll prioritize making your hits.

I'm thinking Rifle max will be +50% of targets - so, if there are 10 hits required to clear the stage, your max load out is 15 rounds.
Pistol +100% - 10 targets = 20 rounds load out
Shotgun - stage max of 8 targets

Thoughts?
 
Tim said:
I am contemplating starting up a new 3-Gun match here in WNC and want to see what folks are looking for.

When I started in 3-Gun it was all about hanging out with the guys and gals for a day, shooting and having fun. It seems in the last few years it's gotten to be a real arms race with folks more worried about the name on their jersey and place on the prize table, and less about laughing and having a good time.

I have an idea for a match that is focused on fun and fellowship rather than Sponsor's Jersey's and Prize tables.

So...I'd like to hear from folks that would be interested in a match. What would be the draw to get you to come out, come back or give it a try for the first time?
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I have never shot 3 gun due to the costs associated with getting a decent set up. I think a budget beginner division that allows coaching and guidance for the noobs would really drop some of the barriers. I have a couple ar's and pistols that would work. The one I have alot of problems with is the shotgun. All I have are hunting shotguns and dropping another $600 to $2000 on a gun that would only be a gamer gun seems silly for a sport I may not enjoy and most likely be terrible at. Currently my firearms budget is for LR shooting and hunting and that budget is not getting larger anytime soon.
 
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What will be your penalties for misses and how will it relate to stage times. I have always like the idea of putting emphasis on good hits. Not spray a few rounds, taking penalties for Charlies or Mikes and moving quickly to the next target. In real life we are accountable for each round we send towards a bad guy. During training I focus on solid hits and tactics. That strategy doesn’t fair well in matches designed for gaming.


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One possible solution to the shotgun problem is to score a portion of the match on hits instead of time. Do you have a clay thrower?
 
Most matches are a combination of time and accuracy. Some 3gun is two hits on paper, but a lot of 3gun is scored like USPSA. A simple version is this:
Must put 2 shots on target.
B zones: -1 second penalty
C zones: -2 second penalty
d zones: - 3 penalty

Just add to your stage time for a simple solution.



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DrDover said:
I have never shot 3 gun due to the costs associated with getting a decent set up. I think a budget beginner division that allows coaching and guidance for the noobs would really drop some of the barriers. I have a couple ar's and pistols that would work. The one I have alot of problems with is the shotgun. All I have are hunting shotguns and dropping another $600 to $2000 on a gun that would only be a gamer gun seems silly for a sport I may not enjoy and most likely be terrible at. Currently my firearms budget is for LR shooting and hunting and that budget is not getting larger anytime soon.
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Come on out! We'll be limiting shotgun stages to level playing field and you can borrow my gun as needed.
 
Average Joe said:
During training I focus on solid hits and tactics. That strategy doesn’t fair well in matches designed for gaming.
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This is one of the reasons why I wanted to go with "ammo restrictions" vs. par time. We're emphasizing hits over speed. Now, it IS a game, so solid hits done quickly will win out over solid hits done slowly, BUT, we're trying to eliminate the 'accuracy by volume' mindset.
 
DrDover said:
I have never shot 3 gun due to the costs associated with getting a decent set up
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Another reason for the ammo loadout restriction is to level the field for for folks that don't have all the gucci-gear. You should be able to run this match with 2 pistol magazines, 2 rifle mags and a hunting shotgun. Stage design and opportunity to shoot at distance is where we'll draw and keep the 3-gun veterans.
 
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Tim said:
Here's what I'm thinking about to balance my hatred of Par Times with the reality of needing to keep things moving along. It also ties in really well to the ammo shortage.

I'm going to limit ammo count per stage. Not fewer targets, fewer misses! We'll prioritize making your hits.

I'm thinking Rifle max will be +50% of targets - so, if there are 10 hits required to clear the stage, your max load out is 15 rounds.
Pistol +100% - 10 targets = 20 rounds load out
Shotgun - stage max of 8 targets

Thoughts?
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I feel like this is an opportunity to add skills rewards. 10 hits to clear, 15 rounds maximum...8 rounds loaded per magazine total on that stage. Force everyone to reload.
 
I must say, I’m liking the direction this is going! Y’all are coming up with some great ideas.


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Tim said:
This is one of the reasons why I wanted to go with "ammo restrictions" vs. par time. We're emphasizing hits over speed. Now, it IS a game, so solid hits done quickly will win out over solid hits done slowly, BUT, we're trying to eliminate the 'accuracy by volume' mindset.
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Tim you are a gentleman and a scholar! I plan on doing some of the run n guns you host once my knees are healed from the vortex sniper misery march if I can get registered before they sell out😂😂 I will also come shoot one of your 3 gun matches if you promise to not make me wear a pretty pink skirt to borrow your shotgun. Pink clashes with my multi cam and eye liner...🤩
 
DrDover said:
Tim you are a gentleman and a scholar! I plan on doing some of the run n guns you host once my knees are healed from the vortex sniper misery march if I can get registered before they sell out😂😂 I will also come shoot one of your 3 gun matches if you promise to not make me wear a pretty pink skirt to borrow your shotgun. Pink clashes with my multi cam and eye liner...🤩
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The idea is for it to be FUN!!
 
I will be in N Myrtle on this date, sure hope this is a hit and there are more of these events later in the year. I would enjoy a low stress, friendly competition to help me sharpen my less than adequate shooting skills. Having basic equipment requirements, low round counts, and simple stages will go a long way in attracting myself and other "average" people to this kind of event. Good luck with this, looking forward to competing and/or helping out with an event like this in the future.
 
Ok....how about a “CFF 3-Gun Mini Camp”? Limit to 10-15 shooters, CFF members only...all with the understanding that this “match” is purely for learning how to shoot a 3-Gun? Run 3-4 simple stages? Take our time to coach, compare gear, talk about stage prep?

who’d be up for something like that?
 
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