Residential HVAC techs here? Might need service/advice
- Thread starter ThinkTankFullOfSharks
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nbkky71
Well-Known Member
Oh brother... same boat here as our upstairs unit stopped blowing cold air Saturday afternoon. Saturday evening was tolerable for sleeping at 82 with the ceiling fan on high, but yesterday evening was brutal. 11pm the temp was 92 upstairs with the windows open and all fans running.
The earliest appt we could get was Wednesday afternoon. Couch-city for the next couple nights!
I just talked to one of our guys about this. He agrees that it makes zero sense to not capture it and that the price quoted is absurd. I think the reason they "can't" capture it is because they want to charge that price per pound.
As far as dumping it goes, R410 and R123 may not be illegal to release because they're not ozone depleting, but they are green house gases that are much worse than CO2, so it's irresponsible to release it.
As far as dumping it goes, R410 and R123 may not be illegal to release because they're not ozone depleting, but they are green house gases that are much worse than CO2, so it's irresponsible to release it.
Scsmith42 recommends against a misting system. But if you want to see one in action:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ac+misting+system
DCGallim
Resident Smart-A$$
Maybe if you ask nicely.
jjwestbrook
Happy to be here
a properly insulated house with a properly sized ac system should be able to maintain 20 deg. better than the ambient temps . so 72 on a 92 deg.. day is pretty good . not saying things couldn't get better though. when temps get that high small problems like dirty filters , dirty coils , blower wheels etc. can be magnified . if its maintaining 72 on a 92 deg. day then your Freon level is probably good
Dumping refrigerant to the atmosphere is highly illegal. Film that and should get the whole job free. That’s a $25,000 fine and up to 5 years in prison. Global warming laws of the Montreal Protocol Act.
$79 a pound is not abnormal in a big city. Cost of a tech to employee and all cost of operation is $104.00 per hour nationally. Jewelry is marked up over 1000%. Your paying for more than just refrigerant when parts are marked up. I don’t mark up R410A that much but I’m not operating in a costly market. Charlotte is charging $200.00 or more a pound for R22. AC cost is driven by demand months. You got 4 months to make 12 months overhead and variables. If people put in swimming pools 12 months a year and 5 times as many they wouldn’t be $30,000.00. They would be $10,000.00. How many people at Christmas say “you know what, let’s put in a pool.” Ain’t happening.
You cannot buy refrigerant without a minimum of a EPA card designated for home repair. There are three levels of a EPA certification. Sell to a non certified person is jail time and huge fine if caught. Everybody is breaking the law these days. They eventually get turned in. It may take a few years.
People who don’t think refrigerant causes global warming are way smarter than scientist. Love how they think chlorine doesn’t cause polar melting. Same people who think we never went to the moon. There all over Facebook with these theories. Jeez.
And I assume you don’t believe taking millions of barrels of oil daily out of the ground has no effect on earthquakes? And yes I will continue to buy petro and drive but I do own a guzzler and a Prius.
He was able to recapture and filter 6 pounds. Which ended up being pretty much all it had in it. Unit is running like a dog so far now.
DCGallim
Resident Smart-A$$
Matters what kind of dog he’s got.
Ours ended up being dirty condensers. One mistake we made was having the dryer duct come through the foundation near the A/C unit. It's surprising how much lint gets sucked into the condenser fins. Sunday night he cleaned them but we were still having problems. Then he found out that our unit has an inner set of condensers that also needed to be cleaned which meant having to dig deeper into it. Once those were cleaned, it started working like it should.
I'm going to devise a wet catch lint trap and move it further away to keep the A/C from pulling so much into it. But we're also going to have it cleaned more often. I guess every 10 years is a little too long.
I'm going to devise a wet catch lint trap and move it further away to keep the A/C from pulling so much into it. But we're also going to have it cleaned more often. I guess every 10 years is a little too long.
OP
Thanks a lot. It's a 2003 single level end unit townhome about 1400sq ft with stupid high ceilings. I suspect it's well insulated. The previous owners upgraded the HVAC before they sold, and I think the wife wanted an oversized system. I say that cause everyone else's units are tiny. I change the filters monthly on account of health and the two dogs and two cats. These were the first very, very hot days so you guys are probably correct in saying it's operating normally. I was using Nordic Pure Merv 8, but went to Merv 10 June 1st. I'm gonna put in a Merv 8 again and see how it does. Hoping for the best. I'm also gonna carefully check and clean (if I can) the coils/fins outside, level the unit, and go in the attic and see how deeply I can carefully and safely get into the air handler and clean that thing out. I'm a DIY'er as much and as often as I can be, so the more I can help is that much less we would have to spend on someone to come out. Lots of good advice here, guys, we appreciate it.
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Dale Gribble
Can't starve us out; Can't make us run
Charter Member
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Damn.
We keep ours at 72 (day)/68 (night) in the summer and 65(day)/60 (night) in the winter.
Those filters restrict alot of airflow thus raising head pressure in the system and degrading performance. I understand pets and allergies and all that. Imho you would be better off replacing the filters 2x a month and using cheaper non pleated filters.
I've advised past customers to do this and had great results.
I've advised past customers to do this and had great results.
fishgutzy
Senior Member
Newer studies have found it is more efficient to leave the temp constant day/night than different set points.
OP
I can tell that they're restrictive, absolutely. But could you recommend a good non-pleated filter? I just want the filter to keep dust and lint out of the system. HVAC is expensive, so the health of the system is very important to me.
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https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flander...-Flat-Panel-Air-Filter-10255-011624/203839130
I use and reccomend Flanders precision aire
I've been using those for as long as I can remember.
The pleated filters can really throw the pressures off when having a unit serviced.
Edit: Even if you were to double the Flanders filters. They are half as restrictive as a pleated filter.
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It always has been better. At least the 25 years I have been in and out of the business.
When you set the temps up even 3° the humidity raises as well. The unit actually works harder and longer to lower the temp those 3° than it would to just let it hum along at one set point.
That's another thing I've always told customers. Actually had a few tell me their power bill went down as much as 10%
OP
Initially there was a cheap 16x25x1 pleated filter installed, without the wire, and the thing was practically being sucked into the return. Research led me to the Nordic pure filters as they're very rigid and filter lots of junk but I could tell right away that they were more restrictive. Thanks a lot for the suggestion, I'll look into non-pleated.
Same principle as using cruise control in your car. Better economy than speeding up and slowing.
If the filter sucks in. You can drill holes in the flats where the filter sets and run a grid of wire to support the filter.
OP
Data intrigues me. I love it. When we're not in the house, working, etc., I set it to 75 all day but when we're home we'll set it to about 72, and about 68 for bedtime. In the summer of course.
Surely it can't be more cost effective to have it cooling the house at 72 all day. Then I think it has to lower the temp 3-4 degrees at once when we settle in so it's probably a wash.
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Also note that lazy installers will also leave the filter in the air handler or just forget. Most, not all, ship with a cheap filter. I've seen that filter in a unit 5 years old and looks like a piece of cardboard. Solid caked with dirt.
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OP
I looked on the handler when we bought the place but could not locate an area where a filter would be installed. Do you think there's one in the air handler in the attic too? I really hope not.
If there is one. It will be between the blower motor and the coil.
There will be a slot with thumb screws if the door is screwed on.
If it's a lift off door there will still be a slot for a filter.
There will be a slot with thumb screws if the door is screwed on.
If it's a lift off door there will still be a slot for a filter.
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OP
Man, I looked and looked and did not see a spot where a filter could be installed. I really hope I'm not missing it, but I'll get up there and look again. Now this is concerning.
Look right where the duct meets the unit. On the system we installed in my parents house, it’s hard to see put there is a little panel that swings open and you can pull the filter out.
As far as your condenser being extra large, it’s probably a higher efficiency unit. It needs more area to reject heat into the hot air more efficiently. Unless it’s short cycling, making it cool but damp, it’s probably not oversized.
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9outof10mms
Enginerding, good coffee, and factual opinions.
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
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Don't BS us--they hadn't invented ice yet when you were a kid.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
I've noticed that the new 2-story 2600+ sq.ft slab homes they're selling next to me for $300K+ have a single outside condenser unit. Maybe they have a 3-way split system but I am guess they only have one air handler as well. That would have been no Bueno to loose something like a fan this week.
9outof10mms
Enginerding, good coffee, and factual opinions.
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Multi-zone systems with variable speed fans (to reduce volume when only one zone is calling for air). If a fan breaks, regardless of which floor it's for, you're going to be calling for immediate repair. So it makes more sense (to me) to have a single unit with multiple zones. Cheaper costs all around, and less to break.
OP
At my place, no. One return in the living room under the thermostat, no filters anywhere else. Lots of good advice last night from @LeeMajors.
I’ve been doing this for 30 years. I rarely do a multi zone off one unit unless someone insist. I do not like that method at all. The theory is you undersize the unit due to not needing all the zones on at once. But the code official requires you to size the whole system using a calculation which means a total btu unit must be installed. This is why I love Mitsubishi minisplits- for these conditions.
I was out on a quote today and tomorrow we are installing a Mitsubishi mini split. The unit in the attic delivers 600 cfms on six ducts which all are all are almost 40 feet each. People have come in and put three booster inline fans in and motorized dampers. BS. Waste of money. Best they could do today with current unit was 79 degrees in a bonus room.
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OP
Sounds like a good day. I want.