115 for training 147 for defense 9mm

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Alex

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Is there going to be a big difference in the poi If I train with 115 grain and carry 147 grain for self defense ?or am I just overthinking this

115 fmj is all I could find and I’ve been stocking up on it so I really don’t want to buy more

I carry 147 grain hsts ,wondering if I’d be better off just using these or I should switch to the 124 grain to get a closer weight to the 115 fmj

Sorry if this doesn’t make much sense I’m semi new to carrying a handgun.
 
indie_rocker said:
At self-defense distances, there shouldn't be much of a difference
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Great ,i carry a g43 it’s as strictly self defense gun not a range toy or anything. Appreciate the help. Also I have another question if you don’t mind. Is subsonic ammo quieter if I don’t use a suppressor compared to SuperSonics ? Im already pretty deaf and I don’t want to make it worse if I have to use my gun .
 
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Alex said:
Great ,i carry a g43 it’s as strictly self defense gun not a range toy or anything. Appreciate the help. Also I have another question if you don’t mind. Is subsonic ammo quieter if I don’t use a suppressor compared to SuperSonics ? Im already pretty deaf and I don’t want to make it worse if I have to use my gun again.
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To the shooter there won’t be much difference.
 
frakncylons said:
The best way to know is shoot both and see.

No, all loud.
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I don’t have much experience so I’m not really sure if I can tell the difference. I haven’t notice any difference so far. But from tests I’ve seen online 147 grain hsts seem to perform great out of short barrels so that’s why I carry them.and I plan to get a suppressor in the near future so might as well.
 
C-doodle said:
You should be testing your SD ammo to make sure it cycles well in the gun anyways. Shoot some paper with both and see how that compare.
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I have and they cycle as they should, I usually like to get about 500 rounds of fmj and 50-100 rounds of what I’m gonna carry in my gun before I consider it reliable, but so far it’s been 100% reliable other than a defective mag I had that Glock replaced for me

I haven’t noticed any difference in poi from 25 yards so far. But I seen online that there may be a difference so I figured I’d see what you guys think
 
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Murtaugh said:
They should be within an inch of each other out to about 75 yards...if you can shoot that consistently.
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I usually shoot around 10-25 yards and they’re usually within a half inch give or take a little of eachother
 
If you are talking purely about self defense, then with shorter barrels I would go with lighter rounds like 115 and 124. The heavier and slower 147's out of shorter barrels don't always expand reliably because of how low the velocity is. Just something to think about.
 
RedFox099 said:
If you are talking purely about self defense, then with shorter barrels I would go with lighter rounds like 115 and 124. The heavier and slower 147's out of shorter barrels don't always expand reliably because of how low the velocity is. Just something to think about.
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From the ballistic gel tests I’ve seen online, the 147 grain hsts seem to reliably expand out of short barrels ,I carry 115 critical defense just cause that is all I found locally, but I prefer the 147 hst compared to 124 cause of lower recoil and I have a lot faster up follow shots.
 
Alex said:
From the ballistic gel tests I’ve seen online, the 147 grain hsts seem to reliably expand out of short barrels ,I carry 115 critical defense just cause that is all I found locally, but I prefer the 147 hst compared to 124 cause of lower recoil and I have a lot faster up follow shots.
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Sounds good.
 
Alex said:
Thanks, 147 grain hsts are subsonic though right? I plan on using those with a suppressor in the future.
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In shorter barreled handguns many non +p 124gr ammo are under 1125 ft/sec cusp. Even older Gen 124gr Hydra-Shok is right on the cusp out of a G17 at 1115-1135 ft/sec but run that same round out of a PCC’s 16.5” barrel and they run 1225-1245 ft/sec. Ballistics by the Inch is a topic for both suppressor and long range applications … and a rabbit hole that is a fun one to go down!
 
RedFox099 said:
If you are talking purely about self defense, then with shorter barrels I would go with lighter rounds like 115 and 124. The heavier and slower 147's out of shorter barrels don't always expand reliably because of how low the velocity is. Just something to think about.
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Actually there is a lot of data to show heavier works better out of short barrels. Look at the line of ammo marketed by Federal as their “micro barrel” load. It’s a 150gr HST round.

My personal thoughts are that the difference between them is going to so insignificant, that I wouldn’t even be concerned with it. Get what you can get and practice to put your shots where they need to go.
 
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Derek8404 said:
Actually there is a lot of data to show heavier works better out of short barrels. Look at the line of ammo marketed by Federal as their “micro barrel” load. It’s a 150gr HST round.

My personal thoughts are that the difference between them is going to so insignificant, that I wouldn’t even be concerned with it. Get what you can get and practice to put your shots where they need to go.
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Paul Harrell tested those rounds and more with his meat target in this video and honestly the 150gr hst didn't seem all that impressive compaired to the other rounds.
 
RedFox099 said:
Paul Harrell tested those rounds and more with his meat target in this video and honestly the 150gr hst didn't seem all that impressive compaired to the other rounds.
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150 seemed like a pos to me, only reason I could justify buying it for that much more (it’s a decent amount more ) is that is had lower recoil in my experience and less muzzle flash.
And the 124 and 147 grain seem to do better in short barrels than the one specifically designed for short barrels Lol.
 
I haven't tried any of the Lehigh factory loads, but I have been loading some of the ultimate defender projectiles in 9mm and so far they seem to have noticeably diminished recoil. The reports online seem to be very positive regarding these rounds in their effectiveness at stopping whatever they are shot into.

I'm still carrying HST, but I'm very likely to switch over. It's just that I have a pretty good stock of HST from the days when SGAMMO sold it for like thirty cents.
 
From experience, you shoot/train with the ballistic equivalent of the ammunition you carry.....
147 FMJ to replicate the recoil impulse of the 147 self defense load you'll carry daily. And if its the FMJ equivalent made by the same company that makes you self defense loads, all the better...
 
I’ve noticed quite large differences in poi between 115-147, with heavier bullets generally impacting higher.
 
USMC6094 said:
From experience, you shoot/train with the ballistic equivalent of the ammunition you carry.....
147 FMJ to replicate the recoil impulse of the 147 self defense load you'll carry daily. And if its the FMJ equivalent made by the same company that makes you self defense loads, all the better...
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I started carrying 124 grain hsts instead of the 147.but I only have 115 grain fmj. I figure it would be closer in weight so it wouldn’t make much of a difference
 
NKD said:
I’ve noticed quite large differences in poi between 115-147, with heavier bullets generally impacting higher.
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What about the difference between 115 and 124. I recently switched to the 124 grain hsts but still only have 115 grain fmjs
 
Alex said:
What about the difference between 115 and 124. I recently switched to the 124 grain hsts but still only have 115 grain fmjs
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Not as much. But slow heavies can really hit high. I think it’s because the gun is actually moving up when they come out. Just my opinion .
 
Derek8404 said:
My personal thoughts are that the difference between them is going to so insignificant, that I wouldn’t even be concerned with it. Get what you can get and practice to put your shots where they need to go.
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This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and......................................................................................oh never mind................................................
 
Shoot SD rounds you actually use in practice. That you know the ballistics of. The recoil impulse. The overall shooting characteristics. If you train with one ammo and carry another, you're going to expect the results of the training ammo while not expecting the results of the SD ammo when it matters most.

At short range it realistically doesn't matter. But if you have to make a longer shot, it will. You have to decide how likely it is you'll be taking those longer shots, and how well you can adapt to quickly shooting rounds you don't practice with.
 
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Gnash.Hyena said:
Shoot SD rounds you actually use in practice. That you know the ballistics of. The recoil impulse. The overall shooting characteristics. If you train with one ammo and carry another, you're going to expect the results of the training ammo while not expecting the results of the SD ammo when it matters most.

At short range it realistically doesn't matter. But if you have to make a longer shot, it will. You have to decide how likely it is you'll be taking those longer shots, and how well you can adapt to quickly shooting rounds you don't practice with.
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I practice often with the round I’m carrying. But it gets expensive so I would rather not spend 70-80 bucks just to shoot 100 hollow points
 
Alex said:
I practice often with the round I’m carrying. But it gets expensive so I would rather not spend 70-80 bucks just to shoot 100 hollow points
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You definitely don't have to do it all the time. Just sometimes. Do it with the last mag as a finisher. And/or do 1-2 round training drills at the end of a string just to maintain proficiency. Think of it like sharpening a knife. The coarse grind is the cheap stuff. The fine edge is the actual SD ammo.

Or be like me (and very likely plenty of others on the forum) and just handload bullets of the same weight and relative velocity as your carry ammo on the cheap so you don't have to spend SD ammo prices on your training ammo for SD scenarios.
 
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