1911 Skool: Diagnosis

John Travis

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Rather than a drawn out writeup, I wanted to post a photograph for the aspiring troubleshooters.

This barrel came out of a Norinco after about 500 rounds.

Study this carefully and offer your thoughts on the cause.

BadLugs.jpg
 
Going to assume that since you didn't also show us the slide that it's either inconsequential or it's the key. What does the slide look like?

eta: My first guess is poor heat treating of the barrel.
 
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Going to assume that since you didn't also show us the slide that it's either inconsequential or it's the key. What does the slide look like?
Slide looks fine,
eta: My first guess is poor heat treating of the barrel.
Norinco barrels are soft under the chrome, but no softer than the original 1911 barrels were. Probably a little harder, actually.
 
Is it a trick of the light or is that link pin not filling up the hole?
 
Are the lugs cut too wide? Causing too much spare room to travel and bash against the rears of em?
 
Well it does look like the lugs are stepped now meaning they weren't fully engaged when the battering occurred. But I don't know what causes that.

spoiler: google shows me a post from THR back in 2008 so you've been dealing with this for at least 15 years.
Okay. That's lug setback. The rounded top edge is probably from the flanging as the slide passes over it and ironing it out rather than from a likdown timing or clearance problem.

This is one of those one-in-five Norincos that I started to see later in my examinaton program when I put out the call to any owners to bring'em in.

I went through a lot of'em without seeing any serious barrel issues...and then they started to show up more often. The 1:5 ratio is an average of all that I looked at.

You're due for a new barrel, and a Norinco take-off barrel won't do it. You're gonna need a hard-fit barrel, and you'll wind up with the firing pin strike low on the primer unless you have the rails peened to lower the slide to spec height from the slidestop pin centerline. This isn't a simple rail peen/swage operation as with a gun that's within spec, but just worn. I did it just recently with a Norinco...my second one that required a full frame reworking...and it's labor-intensive. The cheapest route is to go with a full hard-fit barrel and live with the off-center pin strike.

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and I can't quite understand the metallurgical situation of the barrel, I thought I saw a stress crack in an area of not great stress

Soft steel underneath with a hard chrome plate. If the lugs are sufficiently engaged vertically the barrels hold up well. If not... this is the result.

And... Stress in an area of not-too-great stress... The lugs are under a huge amount of stress every time the gun fires. Specifically, on the front faces of the barrel lugs and rear faces of the slide lugs... as evidenced by the severe lug setback and deformation seen here. This is the worst example I've seen yet, no doubt from a lot of use before the former owner noticed the damage and decided to dump it.
 
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This area is of concern, appears to have a bulge or poor machining.
1693255412439.png
 
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spoiler: google shows me a post from THR back in 2008 so you've been dealing with this for at least 15 years.
That pistol actually crossed my bench around '94 or '95...so it's been about 28 years. It was an early Norinco.

And this one wasn't the first and only one that I saw in similar condtion. It's just one that really stood out.
 
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Well it does look like the lugs are stepped now meaning they weren't fully engaged when the battering occurred. But I don't know what causes that.
:)
The lugs engage vertically, but lock horizontally in opposition under high shearing forces from the bullet's forward drag and the slide's backward pull on the barrel.

I'm gonna go ahead and give you the win. I'll start a separate thread in the wee hours to explain what caused it.

Kudos!
 
Wait! No! I demand the win! I said it was jacked up lugs first! No Fair!

Now you have done it sir...I am team external extractor for life now.
 
Let me ask it backwards, would a short link cause the same problem?

FWIW, I’d check to see if the slide lock is bent.
 
close should count in horseshoes, hand grenades, and locking lugs.

Don't feel bad. Almost everybody overlooks those steps, much less understand what causes it.
Let me ask it backwards, would a short link cause the same problem?
A long link could cause the lugs to crash straight line by not having the barrel completely disengaged when it hits the VIS, but if it were this bad, the gun wouldn't function...not even manually. Most of the time, when the barrel timing causes the lugs to crash, the front lug corners are rounded slightly, usually with similar damage to the slide's lugs.

A short link would likely put the slidestop pin in a bind with the lower lug.

At any rate, the link and lower lug on this barrel were fine.
 
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