3 soldiers killed in Jordan

Maybe it isn’t unconditional support but we have asked for a cease fire and negotiations towards a two state solution and the response has been nope. So we turn around and put another aid package of billions together and send more weapons for them to continue course.

Fair enough if that is what the Israelis want, but I’m having a hard time understanding where we are benefiting.
 
Love the fat electrician; and yes, proportionate response along the lines of Operation Praying Mantis.
 
matttahoe53 said:
Maybe it isn’t unconditional support but we have asked for a cease fire and negotiations towards a two state solution and the response has been nope. So we turn around and put another aid package of billions together and send more weapons for them to continue course.

Fair enough if that is what the Israelis want, but I’m having a hard time understanding where we are benefiting.
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we were very close to having a huge peace deal in that region until we changed president to a feeble weak old man who gave Iran tons of money which they can use to fund terror groups
 
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White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre asserted that the three US troops killed by the drone strike in Jordan had died "fighting on behalf of this administration"...that is Biden, rather than America.
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And they wonder why they have recruitment problems?
 
noway2 said:
And they wonder why they have recruitment problems?
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There's a definite mismatch between the administration's perception ("fighting on behalf of this administration") and the reality. I do not know any single person, not one, who joined because of a specific president. I joined during the Clinton administration, which were awful for their own reasons (mainly money and no deployments).

Yo, "administration", people join for their country, or their brothers, or school money, or bennies, not because of "you".
 
Chuckman said:
There's a definite mismatch between the administration's perception ("fighting on behalf of this administration") and the reality. I do not know any single person, not one, who joined because of a specific president. I joined during the Clinton administration, which were awful for their own reasons (mainly money and no deployments).

Yo, "administration", people join for their country, or their brothers, or school money, or bennies, not because of "you".
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all legionnaires fight for Caesar! HAIL CAESAR!
 
matttahoe53 said:
Maybe it isn’t unconditional support but we have asked for a cease fire and negotiations towards a two state solution and the response has been nope. So we turn around and put another aid package of billions together and send more weapons for them to continue course.

Fair enough if that is what the Israelis want, but I’m having a hard time understanding where we are benefiting.
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I find it difficult to believe that a 2 state solution is an actual answer. I can't believe that Hamas is willing to govern a state. Actually running a state (infrastructure, government, creating/enforcing laws, creating non-drug industry to have a GDP...) is HARD.
 
Ferrisfan said:
I find it difficult to believe that a 2 state solution is an actual answer. I can't believe that Hamas is willing to govern a state. Actually running a state (infrastructure, government, creating/enforcing laws, creating non-drug industry to have a GDP...) is HARD.
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As long as they are willing to use “terrorism” and by that I mean invade peoples homes, shoot them, and rape their daughters as a means to get their “demands” met, they will remain a population group that is too dangerous to be allowed to exist.

I don’t think appeasing them with their own territory would be enough. They made it abundantly clear that their objective is the annihilation of Jews and Israel. As I have said before, I’m not a supporter of Israel, but I can’t blame them for stomping out a group that wants them all dead.
 
matttahoe53 said:
Maybe it isn’t unconditional support but we have asked for a cease fire and negotiations towards a two state solution and the response has been nope. So we turn around and put another aid package of billions together and send more weapons for them to continue course.

Fair enough if that is what the Israelis want, but I’m having a hard time understanding where we are benefiting.
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The two-state solution was never, ever going to work. It rarely works well in any circumstance. As for cease fire, If I was Israel I would not be down for that. Just an interlude until the next time. If every person in Gaza dies I would not lose any sleep. Regrettable? Sure. Tragic? No doubt.
 
Diablos said:
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LOL, that was the first one I though about. Then the dissolution of Yugoslavia. The ongoing bitching between China and Taiwan. West and East Germany. North and South Carolina (South Carolina knows it's merely just southern North Carolina. Just kidding SC peeps, just kidding.....)
 
My point wasn’t really about the feasibility of a two state solution but an illustration of the fact that that as an administration we seem to have no leverage over an ally. We can all agree the group in charge has no business being in charge of the greatest military power in human history.

So what is the best strategy here?

1. More of the same half measures and prolonged conflict at the behest of the oligarchs?
2. Genocide? (I’m not being glib)
3. Pull back and start actually spending money strengthening the homeland and allow the world to sort itself out?

I’m open to other alternatives, but really interested in what is best for this country and using the leverage we have in a way that benefits us.
 
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matttahoe53 said:
So what is the best strategy here?

1. More of the same half measures and prolonged conflict at the behest of the oligarchs?
2. Genocide? (I’m not being glib)
3. Pull back and start actually spending money strengthening the homeland and allow the world to sort itself out?
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I am good with #2 conditionally, and #3 since we shouldn't be trying to police the world. It's not our job.

I say conditionally on #2 and base that condition on this question: if the hostilities were to stop, would Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians continue using terrorist attacks? If the answer is yes, then keep killing them until the answer is no, even if it means there are none left.

Attacking govt. (and not just federal levels), military, and even police can have justification as part of a resistance against tyrannical states, and God knows the US is well on the path to having this happen, but this isn't the same as going into residential neighborhoods, slaughtering the residents and abducting young girls for rape or worse. However, in the case of Gaza I think attempting this would quickly lead to their entire demise as well.
 
The word genocide makes me feel all weird inside. Wiping out those in Gaza, that's not genocide. They are a nationality, and a part of the larger Islamic nation which outnumbers Israel by extraordinary numbers. They still retain 140 something "hostages", most of whom are women, infirm, and children. Israel needs to do what Israel needs to do to preserve their security.

I'm a wee bit lit, and @noway2 said it more eloquently than I could.
 
If we go with number 2 in Gaza do you think that will calm the rest of the region down? I’m not really sure and could imagine we would have to expand that strategy regionally.

It would be nice if we did 3 for decades before settling on 2. Try not having attack vectors in other people’s backyards when we were not invited.
 
matttahoe53 said:
If we go with number 2 in Gaza do you think that will calm the rest of the region down? I’m not really sure and could imagine we would have to expand that strategy regionally.

It would be nice if we did 3 for decades before settling on 2. Try not having attack vectors in other people’s backyards when we were not invited.
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To me it’s a matter of “your tactic of civilian terrorism will not be tolerated, period”. If their tactic is going to target civilians to effect political change or whatever it is they want, then they better stop pissing and whining when others target their people.
 
I think if Israel went with number 2, the world would get exponentially pissed off at Israel. But they would think twice about attacking them.

I see what's going on with Israel and the attacks on us as a Venn diagram with our relationship with Israel meeting in the middle. We could cut off all aid and totally disavow our relationship with Israel but Iran in their little proxies would still have a hard-on against the US. I think our relationship with Israel just makes a convenient excuse.
 
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