A question for our aviators

[Gator]

I've been working pretty steady on my family tree for the last year or so. Got most of the major stuff, now trying to fill in some time gaps.

My father was a pilot in the 1940's. He had arthritis in his feet and legs bad enough the military wouldn't take him so he worked as an instructor for the Army Air Corps. He was in Milwaukee about 1935-1945 according to the flight log book I have, labeled as book #2, no idea where #1 is.

Below is his pilot's license ( I guess that's what you call it ), no date on it. But the radio operator's card expired in 1948. So I thought I'd check with the FAA to see if they had any records of my dad. It would be a real treat to know the date he first became a pilot, but any info referencing dates and places could help with my research.

So I find a web site where you can request info-

https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/Main.aspx

But one of the required fields is his certificate number. I have no clue what they're asking for.

I sent an email to the Milwaukee Flight Standards District Office, got a pretty quick reply. They referred me to the web link above.

So what is the certificate number I need? Any other ideas I'm overlooking?








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[Diablos]

The license number on that form is 18-18553

 

[Diablos]

Looks like you'll need to complete a records request similar to what veterans do

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/copy_of_certification_records

 

[Chuckman]

I am sorry I cannot help. I just wanted to say, that's very cool, and good on you for following up on this history. Also, I was in Civil Air Patrol, a great organization.

 

[nhusa]

The license number on that form is 18-18553

Is the RP before the number needed?

 

[Diablos]

Is the RP before the number needed?

that idk, for military service numbers i just input the numbers themselves when inputting into official government systems (id assume it would be the same for this)

 

[cchioda3]

Just searching his name on the FAA airmen search which you linked above, I returned this.



No certificate number came up though. I think the last name was the only thing required.

 

[Gator]

Looks like you'll need to complete a records request similar to what veterans do

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/copy_of_certification_records

I will give that a try, thank you.

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[Gator]

Just searching his name on the FAA airmen search which you linked above, I returned this.

View attachment 745429

No certificate number came up though. I think the last name was the only thing required.

Well, it appears I did the same thing you did but I didn't look far enough down the page to see his name. Thanks for the help.

So the 1945 date, would that be the last issue date? How long is a pilot's license good for?


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[Gator]

The license number on that form is 18-18553

In post #1 there are two different cards, it's not the front and back of a single card. The one with the number you mention, I assume was required to operate the two way radio. Would the pilot certificate number be referenced there?

You obviously know more about it than me, I'm just trying to be sure I'm clear on the info.

 

[Diablos]

In post #1 there are two different cards, it's not the front and back of a single card. The one with the number you mention, I assume was required to operate the two way radio. Would the pilot certificate number be referenced there?

You obviously know more about it than me, I'm just trying to be sure I'm clear on the info.

I just read a lot of old military discharge documents

My guess is the radio license was/is needed for some stage of the pilots license.

Sometimes researching the info you have (radio license #) can lead to the info you're actually seeking (ive learned to search in veteran systems multiple ways to find people im assisting as ssn doesn't always work for older vets.)

 

[cchioda3]

Well, it appears I did the same thing you did but I didn't look far enough down the page to see his name. Thanks for the help.

So the 1945 date, would that be the last issue date? How long is a pilot's license good for?


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Pilots license doesn’t expire. At least not today anyway. A pilot can lose his medical certificate, which is required to fly a plane now, but the pilot license would still exist. I don’t know about the rules back then. But it looks like the commercial license was the last issued pilots license for him in 1945. I wish it showed a history of dates acquiring each license. For instance when I search myself, the only result is my most recent certificate and date of issue. And it doesn’t include my pilots license #.

Still really cool to get a search result for him!

 

[dmarbell]

Pilots license doesn’t expire. At least not today anyway. A pilot can lose his medical certificate, which is required to fly a plane now, but the pilot license would still exist.

I haven't flown in years and years, but theoretically I could just get a medical certificate and take a biennial check ride and I'd be good to go with my Private Pilot Fixed Wing Land license. I stopped flying when Loran Direct was starting to be a thing for flight plans. I guess now GPS has made VOR, NDB, and Loran obsolete?

 

[cchioda3]

I haven't flown in years and years, but theoretically I could just get a medical certificate and take a biennial check ride and I'd be good to go with my Private Pilot Fixed Wing Land license. I stopped flying when Loran Direct was starting to be a thing for flight plans. I guess now GPS has made VOR, NDB, and Loran obsolete?

Yup, exactly. Just a medical, biennial flight review and lots of cash for that avgas. Haha!

GPS has become king pretty much. A lot of VOR’s have been decommissioned with plans for more in the future but there are enough that flying VOR airways can still be done. But unless you are feeling nostalgic, gps is the way to get around.

 

[LTC Don]

That is so cool. God Bless your Father for his service. The Civil Air Patrol recognition for his service is known as the Red Service Award, awarded for two years of service initially, then an additional award at 3 years, then five years thereafter. I'm coming up on 40 years myself, but that old certificate is a real find and hopefully preserved.

Intially, CAP was under the Office of Civilian Defense, but was pretty quickly moved into the War Department under the Army Air Corps and had a significant role in training pilots along with several other aviation organizations. Training pilots with CAP sounds like what your Father did, so be on the lookout for any other similar documentation along those lines.

Ahh, caught that second card was his FCCRROP and not related to his aeronautical 'airman' number (certificate number today), which I also had one myself in the 1980s when all CAP communications were regulated by the FCC. It was required for any personnel along the border states that may encounter communications with international entities.

History of Civil Air Patrol

www.gocivilairpatrol.com

This publication, while covering the history of our Coastal Patrol operations and not the pilot training program(s) out of Wisconsin, was researched and produced by Frank Blazich, who I know and have another publication/article he wrote on North Carolina CAP's history. Col Blazich actuall graduated from UNC and I think is from North Carolina.

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/AUPress/Books/B_0168_BLAZICH_AN_HONORABLE_PLACE_IN_AMERICAN_AIR_POWER_CIVIL_AIR_PATROL_COSTAL_PATROL_OPERATIONS_1942_1943.PDF

To note, if anyone is out in Manteo anytime, please make it a point to make 2 stops: The Dare County Airport, where there is a museum in the terminal building dedicated to Civil Air Patrol and a Navy training unit during World War II, and the 'Monument to a Centennial of Flight" at the Kill Devil Hills Visitor Center.

Hey Gator, I'm looking at stuff -- PLEASE -- Make sure you scrutinize all documents and protect them very, very carefully. If he or your family have not gone through the process and award, your Father (and thus surviving family), may qualify for the Congressional Gold Medal program (and he would just from what you've already posted) but any additional CAP and FAA documentation you come across would be very important supporting documentation.

World War II Members of the Civil Air Patrol Receive Congressional Gold Medal | U.S. Mint

Welcome to the U.S. Mint, America's manufacturer of legal tender coinage. Your source for tours, online games, breaking news, and our product catalog.

www.usmint.gov

https://www.congress.gov/113/plaws/publ108/PLAW-113publ108.pdf

 

[Chuckman]

That is so cool. God Bless your Father for his service. The Civil Air Patrol recognition for his service is known as the Red Service Award, awarded for two years of service initially, then an additional award at 3 years, then five years thereafter. I'm coming up on 40 years myself, but that old certificate is a real find and hopefully preserved.

Intially, CAP was under the Office of Civilian Defense, but was pretty quickly moved into the War Department under the Army Air Corps and had a significant role in training pilots along with several other aviation organizations. Training pilots with CAP sounds like what your Father did, so be on the lookout for any other similar documentation along those lines.

Ahh, caught that second card was his FCCRROP and not related to his aeronautical 'airman' number (certificate number today), which I also had one myself in the 1980s when all CAP communications were regulated by the FCC. It was required for any personnel along the border states that may encounter communications with international entities.

History of Civil Air Patrol

www.gocivilairpatrol.com

This publication, while covering the history of our Coastal Patrol operations and not the pilot training program(s) out of Wisconsin, was researched and produced by Frank Blazich, who I know and have another publication/article he wrote on North Carolina CAP's history. Col Blazich actuall graduated from UNC and I think is from North Carolina.

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/AUPress/Books/B_0168_BLAZICH_AN_HONORABLE_PLACE_IN_AMERICAN_AIR_POWER_CIVIL_AIR_PATROL_COSTAL_PATROL_OPERATIONS_1942_1943.PDF

To note, if anyone is out in Manteo anytime, please make it a point to make 2 stops: The Dare County Airport, where there is a museum in the terminal building dedicated to Civil Air Patrol and a Navy training unit during World War II, and the 'Monument to a Centennial of Flight" at the Kill Devil Hills Visitor Center.

Hey Gator, I'm looking at stuff -- PLEASE -- Make sure you scrutinize all documents and protect them very, very carefully. If he or your family have not gone through the process and award, your Father (and thus surviving family), may qualify for the Congressional Gold Medal program (and he would just from what you've already posted) but any additional CAP and FAA documentation you come across would be very important supporting documentation.

World War II Members of the Civil Air Patrol Receive Congressional Gold Medal | U.S. Mint

Welcome to the U.S. Mint, America's manufacturer of legal tender coinage. Your source for tours, online games, breaking news, and our product catalog.

www.usmint.gov

https://www.congress.gov/113/plaws/publ108/PLAW-113publ108.pdf

I was a cadet and a senior member in CAP from 83-93. I had a great time. I wish my kids were interested. I still follow CAP on social media, and my goodness all the changes. It's such a great organization.

 

[Gator]

Pilots license doesn’t expire. At least not today anyway. A pilot can lose his medical certificate, which is required to fly a plane now, but the pilot license would still exist. I don’t know about the rules back then. But it looks like the commercial license was the last issued pilots license for him in 1945. I wish it showed a history of dates acquiring each license. For instance when I search myself, the only result is my most recent certificate and date of issue. And it doesn’t include my pilots license #.

Still really cool to get a search result for him!

That is exactly what I was / am hoping to find.


.

 

[Gator]

That is so cool. God Bless your Father for his service. The Civil Air Patrol recognition for his service is known as the Red Service Award, awarded for two years of service initially, then an additional award at 3 years, then five years thereafter. I'm coming up on 40 years myself, but that old certificate is a real find and hopefully preserved.

Intially, CAP was under the Office of Civilian Defense, but was pretty quickly moved into the War Department under the Army Air Corps and had a significant role in training pilots along with several other aviation organizations. Training pilots with CAP sounds like what your Father did, so be on the lookout for any other similar documentation along those lines.

Ahh, caught that second card was his FCCRROP and not related to his aeronautical 'airman' number (certificate number today), which I also had one myself in the 1980s when all CAP communications were regulated by the FCC. It was required for any personnel along the border states that may encounter communications with international entities.

History of Civil Air Patrol

www.gocivilairpatrol.com

This publication, while covering the history of our Coastal Patrol operations and not the pilot training program(s) out of Wisconsin, was researched and produced by Frank Blazich, who I know and have another publication/article he wrote on North Carolina CAP's history. Col Blazich actuall graduated from UNC and I think is from North Carolina.

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/AUPress/Books/B_0168_BLAZICH_AN_HONORABLE_PLACE_IN_AMERICAN_AIR_POWER_CIVIL_AIR_PATROL_COSTAL_PATROL_OPERATIONS_1942_1943.PDF

To note, if anyone is out in Manteo anytime, please make it a point to make 2 stops: The Dare County Airport, where there is a museum in the terminal building dedicated to Civil Air Patrol and a Navy training unit during World War II, and the 'Monument to a Centennial of Flight" at the Kill Devil Hills Visitor Center.

Hey Gator, I'm looking at stuff -- PLEASE -- Make sure you scrutinize all documents and protect them very, very carefully. If he or your family have not gone through the process and award, your Father (and thus surviving family), may qualify for the Congressional Gold Medal program (and he would just from what you've already posted) but any additional CAP and FAA documentation you come across would be very important supporting documentation.

World War II Members of the Civil Air Patrol Receive Congressional Gold Medal | U.S. Mint

Welcome to the U.S. Mint, America's manufacturer of legal tender coinage. Your source for tours, online games, breaking news, and our product catalog.

www.usmint.gov

https://www.congress.gov/113/plaws/publ108/PLAW-113publ108.pdf

Lots of info there that will give me some direction, thank you.


Ahh, caught that second card was his FCCRROP and not related to his aeronautical 'airman' number (certificate number today), which I also had one myself in the 1980s when all CAP communications were regulated by the FCC. It was required for any personnel along the border states that may encounter communications with international entities.


My dad was in San Antonio and flying for a short time, maybe that's the reason for the radio license.

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