Accuracy issues with 45 Colt Henry X

[Bull Gear]

I purchased the above intending to use it as a suppressed deer rifle. Unfortunately, I still have no confidence in its accuracy after trying a wide variety of handloads and combinations.
I was wondering if anybody has any insight/experience to share since 45 Colt is a relatively new cartridge for me. I was intrigued by it's versatility, but I'm really struggling with finding a suitable load for this Henry. I don't claim to be an expert, and I am admittedly rather new to casting, but I have been reloading for 20+ years for a wide variety of pistol and rifle cartridges and have never run into an issue like this before (unless it was with some shot-out antique junk). I have contacted Henry looking for some guidance and their recommendation was to try some factory loads. Call me a skinflint, but I am just not willing to burn a couple hundred dollars experimenting with EXPENSIVE factory loads when there is no reason that a quality handload shouldn't work just fine. I still have a few combinations to try out, but at this point I am beyond frustrated and quickly running out of ideas.

DETAILS: Testing has been done at 25, 50 and 80 yds. POI is all over the place (I'm talking inches) and it seems to change DRASTICALLY with different loads. There seems to be no discernable pattern... it might scatter or it might string diagonally and on occasion it might cloverleaf 3 or 4 and then throw a couple off and then go back to the original POI. There seems to be no rhyme or reason. I have tried a wide variety of loads... cast bullets (Lee 252SWC, RCBS 270SAA, and Lee 300GC) and jacketed (Hornady 250 & 300 XTPs), various powders (Unique, Blue Dot, IMR4227, Longshot, Power Pistol, SR4756), velocities from about 1000fps (roughly an 800fps "cowboy" pistol load out of a rifle) all the way up to 1400+, powder coated or lubed, gas check or not, etc, etc. Generally using a Vortex Crossfire red dot, but have also tried it with a scope and with the iron sights. I have tried it with and without an Octane 45 suppressor. I have slugged the bore at .452 and size to .454. Hardness is typically in the 13-18 BHN range. Many tests have been shot across a chronograph and SDs are within reason. OAL is held at 1.600" to allow for feeding. Oddly enough, Henry does not recommend bullets over 270gr, but some of those 300gr have worked just as well as anything else.

The most consistent load I have tested to date seems to be a Lee 252 SWC over 8.0gr of Unique, but I still cannot pick up that rifle and trust that I can ring that 8" gong at 80yds. This rifle should do better, but I just can't seem to sort it out and it's really, REALLY, aggravating me.

 

[45/70fan]

Nosler load data runs at 1.590", maybe your rifle wants a shorter OAL?? Do you have any H110 or W296? Perhaps try that as it doesn't fill the case as much as IMR4227. Another thought is maybe try a lighter jacketed bullet. My BIL and I have 44 Mag Henry single shots. His equally likes 180 gr and 240 gr bullets. Mine will only shoot 240 gr bullets well.

 

[keepcalmandcarryon]

It seems like you are doing all the right things.
I have a Winchester 92 I. 45 lc and have done some load development and it can be frustrating. Here are my observations:
-semiwadcutters do not shoot well in a rifle (despite being fantastic in the pistol)
-single loading seems to help. IDK if the cartridge is getting messed up during the feeding process or in the tube or if the change is balance throws off the POI .
-Bulkier powder that fills the case the most works the best.
-Groups are not linear ie. 1/2” at 25 does not equate to 2” at 100
-4” at 100 is the best I could achieve

 

[ronn47]

Have you tightened the stock bolt and checked the handguard?

 

[Bull Gear]

Appreciate the comments. All good points. I'll touch on a couple below;
- I check all the screws about every time out. Seems the stock and action screws like to loosen up over time.
- Typically, I only have 1 in the chamber and 2 max in the mag during testing, but I'll try single loading. I can definitely see how running through a full magazine might string them out some.
- I really don't care to go lighter than a 250gr bullet, but I may have to try just to see what happens. I prefer to stay subsonic, so the heavier, the better. Also, I'm a bit of a traditionalist so I like to keep vintage calibers close to their original specs.
- I like W296/H110 in heavy magnums, but I didn't think that would work very well at these load levels. I will revisit that, though.
- VERY interesting about the SWC bullet style not working so well in a rifle. I had never considered that. 2 out of 3 of the cast bullets I've been using are a SWC style (the Lee 252 and the RCBS 270) and the 3rd style (Lee 300gr) is more of a round nose flat point, but may just be too heavy to properly stabilize. I need to try more of those jacketed XTPs.
- The bulky powder makes good sense. That is a cavernous case.
- I always thought that longer OAL (within reason) was advantageous by minimizing the free bore, but shorter might be worth a try.
- 4" @ 100yd, huh? That's a rude awakening. I had hoped for better. Maybe I'm just expecting too much out of this combination.

Just to give y'all an idea what I've been up against...
Today, I decided to start basically from scratch. I installed an old 2.5x20 Tasco that had worked pretty well in the past in short range applications. I sighted it in at 25yd using one of my best loads to date (270 SAA over 8.0gr Unique @ approx 1050fps). My 3 shot groups were running about 1" or less. Not too bad, I guess. After a couple scope adjustments I was shooting decent cloverleafs on center. I went through about a dozen rounds that way and was pretty satisfied. THEN, I installed the suppressor (direct thread mount). Group opened up slightly to about 1-1/4", BUT the POI moved 7" down and right!!! You read that right... a 7" shift at 25 yd. HOLY SHIITE. I have never noticed a POI shift like that in any of the other calibers I shoot suppressed (22LR, 5.56, 9mm, 45ACP, 300BO, 308).
Today's little exercise leads me to believe that trying to suppress this rifle in this caliber is the source of all my woes. But WHY? It doesn't appear to be baffle strikes. There have been no indicators of strikes, no keyholes, and the groups did not open up drastically.
Anybody else ever seen anything like this?
At this point, about all I can do is keep digging, I suppose.

 

[Toprudder]

Wow, that is big shift in POI.

Just as a reference, I have a Rossi 20” 44mag, and I get about 2.5” @ 100 on a good day. I’m happy with that.

 

[cold1]

One possible reason, 45LC barrel is thin walled compared to other suppressed calibers you have. It already has the tube mag hanging on it too. Adding the suppressor changes the barrel "whip " and harmonics. That may be causing the shift in POI.

Can you take the guts out of the can and see if there is a different affect on the POI?

 

[Charlie]

View attachment 736881

It looks as if you have found a good load for it unsuppressed, so I doubt the problem is with the gun as it came from the factory. The suppressed group of 1.25 inches is not bad from a lever action. It should be very acceptable at the ranges you would be hunting deer with a 45 Colt. I have no experience with a suppressor but do know that you can adjust your sights to put the suppressed rounds where you want them to go. It does not surprise me at all that different loads do not shoot to the same place. I have seen that many times and just sight the firearm in for the load I want to use.