Alaska Bear Gun?

AmericaFirst said:
I am planning on going salmon fishing in Alaska next spring after graduation. I wanted to hear thoughts about different possible options for good bear defense pistols.

Being an east coast native, 357mag was always a good option. However, I hear 10mm or 44mag are better up north. I like revolvers, but even full bore 357mag loads are kinda punchy for me and I figure 44mag would be even worse.
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A few years ago we were going to Yellowstone and I was thinking of what gun to take in case we were attacked by a bear or something else. I did a bunch of reading and a shocking number of bears have been killed by 9mm. Pretty much that is because of what people had on hand and controllable for accurate rapid fire. Some people said FMJ for the penetration. I thought it was interesting because you always think you need a hand cannon.
 
Variable said:
A few years ago we were going to Yellowstone and I was thinking of what gun to take in case we were attacked by a bear or something else. I did a bunch of reading and a shocking number of bears have been killed by 9mm. Pretty much that is because of what people had on hand and controllable for accurate rapid fire. Some people said FMJ for the penetration. I thought it was interesting because you always think you need a hand cannon.
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There is a big difference between killing a bear and stopping a bear.
 
Michael458 said:
Years ago I opted to go exclusively with 45 Colt for most all my Revolver adventures, large and small......... In the early days I carried a 4 inch Stainless S&W Mt. Revolver that served me very well. I dispatched a couple of Mt. Lions and a black bear with it using various 250 gr bullets at 1150-1200 fps. I have Anacondas, Ruger Redhawks, Custom Dan Wesson, other S&Ws, had a couple of 454s, and several small 5 shot Taurus guns, all in 45 Colt......

The two guns I have carried the most in the field, both in Alaska, various US, and even Africa has been a 2 inch Taurus 45 Colt and a Kimber Ultra in 45 ACP. The last time I spent in Alaska I remember asking myself "Which sidearm will I take"......... I conducted a test over a few days by strapping on various Handguns, walking around with them all day..... then some shooting, with the bigger guns some heavy loads........ In the end, I did not like the bigger guns, they pulled at me all day, wore me out, just too big, too heavy. Then shooting some of them with heavy loads was just not any damn fun at all..... I ended up wearing the little 2 inch Taurus, almost never knew it was on me, shooting 250 gr Cast bullets 750-800 fps. Figured if I needed a handgun it was going to be damn close, within feet and not yards, and a face full of these would get a bears attention........

I also opted many times for the little Kimber Ultra in 45 ACP. Same story, easy to carry, plenty of firepower, using good bullets, if I needed it, it would be close.

Now, what you do need to keep in mind, is I was always in a hunting scenario and carrying a rifle, and the vast majority of the time a big bore rifle at that. There would be very little chance I would need a handgun at all.

Regardless of that, I would almost assuredly make the same decisions today, rifle or no rifle. I think going into Alaska today I would use one of my 4 inch Kimbers, and a CEB 200 gr FN Copper Solid. A magazine full of those will without doubt get somethings attention if required.
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I remember your Taurus 45LC, I traded grips with either you or Billy from my Taurus 357. If I was going to Alaska I would take my shorty BirdHead Vaquero , 45 Colt of course, and my Guide gun. I still have some of those 500gr Hard Casts you made for the Guide Gun.
 
Frack N Cylons said:
Is that one of those little titanium 5 shooters?

My dad has one of those and I covet it!
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phideux said:
remember your Taurus 45LC, I traded grips with either you or Billy from my Taurus 357.
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Yep @phideux , I think maybe you are right, that has been so long ago I don't remember so well....... I carried that little gun all over the world.... And the Mt Revolver as well.

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phideux said:
I still have some of those 500gr Hard Casts you made for the Guide Gun.
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We got a lot better than that now, gonna have to come see me...............
 

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"This load is designed to penetrate deeply (4 to 6 feet) in a straight line, through flesh and bones and that flat nose does considerably more terminal damage, as it crushes its way through tissues, than a round nose bullet does as it slips and slides its way through tissues and that crushing action, keeps the bullet nose forward and ensures very deep straight-line penetration. Round nose bullets tend to get sideways as they slip and slide through tissues and this often causes them to veer off the path. This bullet is designed to crush through a large bear skull, coming and going."

ALASKAN GUIDE, PHIL SHOEMAKER, USES 9MM OUTDOORSMAN ROUNDS IN An S&W 3954 TO STOP AN ATTACKING GRIZZLY - See story and photos below.



Tim,



Two days ago I was guiding a couple from NY on a fishing trip and decided to pack my S&W 3954 pistol. When we were approaching the stream we bumped into a large boar who must have been sleeping as we were talking loud just so we wouldn't surprise one. Over the past 33 years I have lived and guided here on the Alaska peninsula I have never had to kill a bear in defense of life but this bear was different.



We were in thick brush and I was only 8 or 10 feet from the bear when he started growling and huffing. I began yelling and it eventually ran around, behind my two clients, into the brush. But within 15 seconds it came charging back from the area behind us and popped out of the brush 10 feet from me! I had the little S&W in my hands and was thinking I was probably going to have to shoot it but as it cleared the brush it headed toward my clients. The man had enough sense to grab his wife and fall backward into the tall grass. The bear seemed to lose track of them, even though it was less than 3 feet away from them and it was highly agitated! It then swung toward me, I was 6 or 8 feet away, and I fired the first shot into the area between the head and shoulder. It growled and started wildly thrashing around, still basically on the feet of my clients. My next shot hit it in the shoulder and it began twisting and biting at the hits and I continued firing as fast as I could see vitals. Five shots later it turned into the brush and I hit it again and it twisted and fell 20 feet from us!



We hiked out and I flew back to camp to report the incident to F&G and pick up my daughter to go back and skin the bear for F&G.

You are the first person I have told this story to as I haven't decided whether to write it up or not, or where, but thought you should know that your ammo WORKS. We recovered 4 of the bullets and I took a photo of the back of the bear after the hide was removed that shows an entry on one side of the back and the tip of the bullet on the off side ...



Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com


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When I lived in Anchorage (70's) I fished the Kenai and Russian rivers all the time. I carried a 357 revolver. Never had to use it. There were always bears fishing also. Never thought twice about it. They could of cared less about people. They just wanted Salmon also. When I lived in Tok I would fly into different places to fish. Four to five days at a time by my self. Had a rifle with me and my 357. The revolver always stayed with me. Not so much the rifle. It was heavy. To be quite honest moose were a lot more dangerous then the bears.
 
If you have a legal way to use it, you can borrow my 10.5” 12.7x42 AR upper. 😎
 
@Tim has the right of it. Hire a reputable guide and do what they say. They will likely be carrying both spray and a firearm.

Bear spray is better at preventing/stopping attacks than a gun. Realistically you'd have a few seconds to draw and put a round into its head before your insides are on the outside. Hit it anywhere else and it'll still have enough time to kill you before it dies. Spray doesn't require accuracy and you wont get ticketed for putting a wall of capsaicin mist up in front of you like a "warning" shot in a national park would.

Also @ECNC is right, Moose are the real threat. Odds are the only bear you'll see will be ones rear end as it's hurrying to get away from you. Moose on the other hand simply do not care. They don't flee threats, they just run them over.
Scariest animal encounter I ever had was up in Newfoundland in Gros Morne Park, big bull strolled right through the camp site. Stopped, looked at me, looked at my sister, then kept walking.
 
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Charlie said:
There is a big difference between killing a bear and stopping a bear.
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These people were not hunting a bear with a 9mm. They were dealing with an attack. I recall a few of them were situations when the bear had come into the house. Some of them were in the woods. Shot placement would be king here and penetration
 
Variable said:
These people were not hunting a bear with a 9mm. They were dealing with an attack. I recall a few of them were situations when the bear had come into the house. Some of them were in the woods. Shot placement would be king here and penetration
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Very true. If a situation is forced upon you by surprise, use whatever tools you have to survive. If, however, you go into a situation in which confrontation is a distinct possibility for which you hope to be adequately prepared, a 9mm handgun would probably not be high on the list of guns to carry. You want to stop the threat as quickly as possible. Distracting the bear with a 9mm round so that you can pump several more rounds into it until it runs away to die worked this time but may not work with other bears.

I have been around black bears all my life and have been close to grizzlies on several occasions. I have never had to take forceful action against one and hope I never do. I have relied on fishing guides when I have been stream fishing in Alaska and have carried some slugs for my shotgun when ptarmigan hunting.
 
AmericaFirst said:
I am planning on going salmon fishing in Alaska next spring after graduation. I wanted to hear thoughts about different possible options for good bear defense pistols.

Being an east coast native, 357mag was always a good option. However, I hear 10mm or 44mag are better up north. I like revolvers, but even full bore 357mag loads are kinda punchy for me and I figure 44mag would be even worse.
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I have a few friends in Alaska with Glock 20s in 10mm. They prefer it over revolvers because the polymer frame doesn't get cold outdoors like steel frames. If you're wearing gloves though, I guess it doesn't matter. They also really like the 15-round magazine capacity
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Disagree
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You can and a gun might be more effective for you, but I'd bet you've fired at least a few hundred thousand rounds and have tens of thousands of hours of practice.

However the overwhelming majority of people do not, and for them spray is 100% the right choice. Spray requires far less skill to use effectively and safely.
 
Prudii said:
You can and a gun might be more effective for you, but I'd bet you've fired at least a few hundred thousand rounds and have tens of thousands of hours of practice.

However the overwhelming majority of people do not, and for them spray is 100% the right choice. Spray requires far less skill to use effectively and safely.
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You are correct on both counts, Billy probably has shot and done more than a lot people around here ….and I am one of many people that can talk a good game but would crap my pants if a bear charges me!!!! Pistol in the right hand and bear spay in the left, heaven help anyone near by because something stupid is about to happen….pathetic I know but at least I’m honest.
 
I have a friend who was attacked by a grizzly in Mt. McKinley National Park back in 1971. He was taking a break from his job at the Park and was hiking along a braided stream near Polychrome Pass when he found himself between a sow and her cubs. She grabbed him by his shoulder, shook him a few times, and then took off after her cubs who were beating a hasty retreat. He hiked out to the Park Road and sat down until the next vehicle came by. I had several Botany classes with him the next school year and asked him about it. He was not too fond of talking about it but did say that it happened very quickly, that the strength, violence, and speed of the bear were overwhelming, and that the stench was horrible. I have often wondered, given the speed and violence of that particular attack, whether a firearm or can of bear spray would have helped him. All attacks by bears are not the same, and I do not want to go anywhere in the wilds without a significant firearm close at hand. None of the Alaskan fishing guides I have used carried bear spray while most carried firearms. Several said that they have never had to use their firearms and carry them mainly for the comfort of their clients.IMG_2255.JPG
 
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I've hiked and photographed Brown Bear in Alaska, Montana and Wyoming. I used to take my scandium 329 PD. It's very light, which is great when you're carrying many pounds of camera equipment. Unfortunately, in the wildlife/nature photography world, there's plenty of people who don't like guns and a 4" N-frame isn't easy to conceal all day. So I went to the 2" mod. 329 Night Guard. It's heavier than the 4", but conceals better.
I then thought that the 10mm G29 would be best, but then read that the 10mm out of the short barrel may not be what I'm looking for. Maybe a G20 size barrel for my G29?

These two didn't look like they wanted their photo taken......

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Bear Spray: Bear spray is an effective deterrent and is widely recommended by experts. It typically contains capsaicin, a derivative of chili peppers, and can temporarily incapacitate a bear by causing irritation and inflammation of the eyes, nose, and respiratory system. Make sure to choose a bear spray specifically designed for deterring bears and familiarize yourself with its proper use before your trip.
Knowledge and Awareness: Educate yourself about bear behavior, signs of bear presence, and appropriate responses in bear encounters. Be aware of the different bear species in Alaska, primarily grizzly (brown) bears and black bears, and understand their behaviors and habits. Avoid surprising bears and make noise while hiking to alert them of your presence.
Group Travel: If possible, travel in a group as bears are less likely to approach larger numbers of people. Bears often avoid human encounters, and groups tend to make more noise, making their presence known to bears. Bear-Resistant Food Containers: When camping or hiking, store your food and scented items (e.g., toiletries) in bear-resistant containers. These containers are designed to withstand bear attempts to access the contents, reducing the likelihood of attracting bears to your campsite.
Campsite Selection and Maintenance: Choose your campsite carefully, considering its proximity to bear trails and food sources like berry patches or salmon streams. Maintain a clean camp by properly disposing of trash and food scraps, keeping a clean cooking area, and packing out all garbage. Bears can be attracted to the smell of food, so minimizing odors is essential.
Firearms: Carrying firearms for bear protection is an option, but it requires proper training, familiarity with firearms, and compliance with local laws and regulations. If you choose this option, consult with local authorities, park rangers, or experienced guides for advice on the appropriate firearms and calibers for bear defense.


Regenerate response
 
Lucky said:
Bear Spray: Bear spray is an effective deterrent and is widely recommended by experts. It typically contains capsaicin, a derivative of chili peppers, and can temporarily incapacitate a bear by causing irritation and inflammation of the eyes, nose, and respiratory system. Make sure to choose a bear spray specifically designed for deterring bears and familiarize yourself with its proper use before your trip.
Knowledge and Awareness: Educate yourself about bear behavior, signs of bear presence, and appropriate responses in bear encounters. Be aware of the different bear species in Alaska, primarily grizzly (brown) bears and black bears, and understand their behaviors and habits. Avoid surprising bears and make noise while hiking to alert them of your presence.
Group Travel: If possible, travel in a group as bears are less likely to approach larger numbers of people. Bears often avoid human encounters, and groups tend to make more noise, making their presence known to bears. Bear-Resistant Food Containers: When camping or hiking, store your food and scented items (e.g., toiletries) in bear-resistant containers. These containers are designed to withstand bear attempts to access the contents, reducing the likelihood of attracting bears to your campsite.
Campsite Selection and Maintenance: Choose your campsite carefully, considering its proximity to bear trails and food sources like berry patches or salmon streams. Maintain a clean camp by properly disposing of trash and food scraps, keeping a clean cooking area, and packing out all garbage. Bears can be attracted to the smell of food, so minimizing odors is essential.
Firearms: Carrying firearms for bear protection is an option, but it requires proper training, familiarity with firearms, and compliance with local laws and regulations. If you choose this option, consult with local authorities, park rangers, or experienced guides for advice on the appropriate firearms and calibers for bear defense.


Regenerate response
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ChatGPT?
 
vp9c said:
The regenerate response is a giveaway
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CZfool68 said:
Hopefully a human on this forum didn’t spew that.
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dude has another clearly copy/paste from ChatGPT in another thread.

AI has its place, but I sure hope it doesn't take hold here on CFF. We don't need auto-bots carrying on conversations.
 
Tim said:
dude has another clearly copy/paste from ChatGPT in another thread.

AI has its place, but I sure hope it doesn't take hold here on CFF. We don't need auto-bots carrying on conversations.
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Ahhhh…He’s getting his post count up
 
I'm surprised no one has posted this already.

We were in Yellowstone area last week, you can make a killing selling bear spray there. $40 a pop. Some places will even rent you the can by the day. I'm thinking all the places we went, and most people went, a bear was the least of their worries. Getting run over by someone looking for a bear was more dangerous.


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I remember watching Shooting USA or some other cable late night show that featured shooting years ago...probably 15 years ago...and they did a feature on "training" to shoot a charging bear.

Long story short: you better have luck on your side.

I can't find the exact clip online. It was a gun range somewhere out west--very arid looking, little vegetation. I forget who the instructor was. They had a remote control car that looked like a Battle Bot--up-armored and beefy tires. It was able to hold a target like a traditional one that uses fir strips and a stapled piece of carboard between the wood.

The instructor would post a picture of a charging grizzle (head down and full charge mode) and start the remote car several yards away...maybe 10-20 yards out. The student had to draw and fire and hit the brain area which was maybe the size of a tennis ball, all while the car (the "bear") was charging at them. He started slow then worked up to real speeds.

None of them succeeded.

This video looks like it gets close to simulating the speed:


This guy uses a tire rolling down a hill:


The problem with that Ruger Alaskan 454 is repeat shots. You'll be lucky to get two shots off that are even remotely well placed.

I wonder about a Taurus Judge with one of those 410 defensive rounds--they've got some buck shot and a slug in one shell. Or am I making this shell up???
 
That charging bear target is very similar to MGM's "Attack Target".
Both targets good for imminent danger training!!

 
Prudii said:
You can and a gun might be more effective for you, but I'd bet you've fired at least a few hundred thousand rounds and have tens of thousands of hours of practice.

However the overwhelming majority of people do not, and for them spray is 100% the right choice. Spray requires far less skill to use effectively and safely.
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Bear Spray also needs the wind to work in your favor. I would say it requries even more time to deploy than someone trained with a defensive handgun. The two times I went to Alaska I considered my Ruger 6.5".41 mag Blackhawk but that isn't practcal to carry concealed in towns also. Took my Smith 58 also in .41 mag. 175 gr STHP in town and out and about 270gr hard cast LFN that I casted and reloaded for. Bullet was designed for my Marlin 1894S in .41 mag. Also took my Rem 870 3" Wingmaster with 21" Remchoke bbl. Shot lots of Spruce Grouse with it and had some great eating.
 
I was stationed in Kodiak AK as well as Juneau for several years while active duty. My job took me all over the state and mostly to isolated areas with little to no human residents. I saw a LOT of bears and quite a few up close. Like 10’ close. I carried a 45-70 Marlin 1895 sometimes, a 12 gauge 870 with Brenneke Black Magic Magnums, or a .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk (300gr hard cast) in a chest holster. I would be confident in any of them if I had the time to react. I’m here to tell you that if a bear wants you, you will most likely NOT have time to react. I’ve been charged several times (false charge) by female Kodiaks with cubs and they are on you so fast you don’t have time to blink. 35 miles an hour through the trees is faster than it sounds… Long story short, carry whatever you’re comfortable with and PAY attention. You are not anywhere near the top of the food chain in Alaska.
 
When I hunt with and for the great bears, It is a 329PD stoked with Keith-style hard casts at the top of the limits. I use a chest rig and don't care too much if someone doesn't like guns. Almost everyone I might encounter has the same kind of setup. I have no illusion it is a perfect defense, but it is certainly better than nothing.

I see more and more carrying the Glock or S&W in 10mm. Quantity probably matters so it is a good choice. I have the S&W M&P in 10mm but I keep taking the 329PD when I pack.
 
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