Alternate powders?

Downeast

Downeast

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If the rumors are true about Alliant powders cancelling all shipments I guess it's time to look for other powders. I've been using R15 and 25 with good results. More reloading drama. First it was primers, now powders. :(

Anyone use IMR 4064 in the .308?
 
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Downeast said:
Anyone use IMR 4064 in the .308?
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Yeppers.. in my bolts, M1A's, etc.
165-175 Bergers / Seirra's

Also 4895, 8208, ditched Vargot long ago

Worked up loads using those 3 powders actually use 4064, in the Swift, 25.06, 7mm-08, 243, 22-250, 30.06, 270, 280. Have no complaints.
Bout the only thing I rely from Alliant powder wise, is Red Dot (12ga), Bullseye, 2400 (44mag) and Unique. I do have replacements for those.
N310 / W231 for 45acp. The only problem I see coming is everyone is gonna start hoardiing all the others, or just buy them to "resell"

About the only Alliant one I'm lite on is 2400 (bout 4#)

-Snoopz
 
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A close friend use imr 4064 in his 308 with very good success. I have also use varget, imr 8208 xbr and h4895. I tried imr 4166 also and had some success with it before it disappeared.
 
Downeast said:
If the rumors are true about Alliant powders cancelling all shipments I guess it's time to look for other powders. I've been using R15 and 25 with good results. More reloading drama. First it was primers, now powders. :(

Anyone use IMR 4064 in the .308?
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StaBALL Match to replace your RE15 and StaBall HD to replace your RE26

Match should br $8-10 cheaper a pound than Varget, offers temp insensitive ball powder for easier metering and a copper fouling erasing component


I prefer H4895 out of the two (IMR & Hodgdon) but it’d been OOS for a long time. I think other powders are being focused on, and Varget is $3 less per pound than IMR4895
 
I’ve used IMR4064 for 168 gr BTHP in 308. Worked well and would be happy to keep using it. However I much prefer ball to extruded powders as I like to use a powder drop, so my IMR stash doesn’t get much use beyond occasional testing purposes.
 
Snoopz said:
Some food for thought....

www.washingtontimes.com

Gunpowder shortage: GOP prods Biden on supply chain woes, fears of ammo crunch as U.S. arms Ukraine

Members of Congress announced legislation Thursday to prod the Biden administration to conduct an inventory of the U.S. gunpowder supply chain and offer suggestions to ensure enough will be available for the military and the average consumer.
www.washingtontimes.com www.washingtontimes.com
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You mean relying on our enemies to produce the goods we need to defend ourselves wasn't a good idea? Who'd a thunk?

So the Chinese, who produce and export the basic ingredients, are aligned with Russia. And they restrict our ability to import because we're using it to supply the Ukraine to fight against the Russians.

Rhetorical question, but what did they (US-MIC/Warmongers)think was going to happen?
 
Looks like we're headed to where sports shooting was in the U.S. during WW2 with barely any ammunition or components availble to civilians due to war production consuming all resources.
 
11B CIB said:
StaBALL Match to replace your RE15 and StaBall HD to replace your RE26

Match should br $8-10 cheaper a pound than Varget, offers temp insensitive ball powder for easier metering and a copper fouling erasing component


I prefer H4895 out of the two (IMR & Hodgdon) but it’d been OOS for a long time. I think other powders are being focused on, and Varget is $3 less per pound than IMR4895
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That's good to know. on the StaBALL. thanks you good sir.

I do have a question, and just more your thoughts on it. But could one replace AR Comp with StaBALL Match? Yes Yes I understand don't use the same reloading data for AR Comp
 
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backwoodsshooter said:
That's good to know. on the StaBALL. thanks you good sir.

I do have a question, and just more your thoughts on it. But could one replace AR Comp with StaBALL Match? Yes Yes I understand don't use the same reloading data for AR Comp
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I will say that while it would be good for your purposes, StaBall is a ball powder and Comp is an extruded stick powder so a better comparison of StaBall Match with an Alliant offering might be 2000-MR.

However if you’re looking for to stay with stick powders and need a replacement, Varget or H4895 & 8208 (if it ever comes back in stock) would be viable but again $$$

StaBALL match is showing to be a solid performer but don’t discount TAC or A2520 which are tried and true as well and available
 
I've been using 4064 and 4895 for .308 and 7.5 x55 Swiss.
I own a pound of Varget but I've been reluctant to develop loads with it due to availability/price concerns in the past. I keep it as a hedge, I know it will work well for every rifle I load for.
I settled on 4064 for .308 because my M1A and my Tikka both shoot a specific load very well, so I can keep that one load on hand and it's good for either. Simplifies things significantly.
 
11B CIB said:
I will say that while it would be good for your purposes, StaBall is a ball powder and Comp is an extruded stick powder so a better comparison of StaBall Match with an Alliant offering might be 2000-MR.

However if you’re looking for to stay with stick powders and need a replacement, Varget or H4895 & 8208 (if it ever comes back in stock) would be viable but again $$$

StaBALL match is showing to be a solid performer but don’t discount TAC or A2520 which are tried and true as well and available
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that’s what i was figuring. i already planned on 2520 as it Tony Rumore gave me some load data for the 375 SOCOM to work with on a 358 socom. But most of it revolves around AR Comp. not even he gave me an idea about TAC being able to be used.

to be honest, i’ve all but gone away from stick powders as they’re ridiculously expensive or can’t find them.

that’s why i’ve started moving over to Accurate powders as i can find those in stock and on the shelves.

hope that makes sense
 
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11B CIB said:
StaBALL Match to replace your RE15 and StaBall HD to replace your RE26

Match should br $8-10 cheaper a pound than Varget, offers temp insensitive ball powder for easier metering and a copper fouling erasing component


I prefer H4895 out of the two (IMR & Hodgdon) but it’d been OOS for a long time. I think other powders are being focused on, and Varget is $3 less per pound than IMR4895
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Staball will be a lot less temp sensitive too. Reloader 15 is extremely sensitive as is re17, which I’m a huge fan of for the velocity gains in 6.5 cartridges over h4350.
 
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Jimbob78 said:
Staball will be a lot less temp sensitive too. Reloader 15 is extremely sensitive as is re17, which I’m a huge fan of for the velocity gains in 6.5 cartridges over h4350.
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Haven’t had issues in SC with RE15, at least none that affected performance in sub 800yd rifle matches

StaBalls should be good as far as ball powders go (better than CFE223 for example) but I’d still take an extruded stick powder as the more insensitive of the two
 
Anybody use vihtavuori powders? N135 and n140 are in the 4895 and varget burn rate range. I've been looking hard at them as well as the staball match for an alternative. I'm thinking about the n135 for the m1 garand
 
11B CIB said:
Haven’t had issues in SC with RE15, at least none that affected performance in sub 800yd rifle matches

StaBalls should be good as far as ball powders go (better than CFE223 for example) but I’d still take an extruded stick powder as the more insensitive of the two
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I’ve watched re17 walk up in velocity in a day that started at 65 degrees and topped out at 95. RE15 was doing it even worse in a friends 308. Moral to the story, don’t pick a load near your pressure line in that particular rifle from winter load development.
 
Willie said:
Anybody use vihtavuori powders? N135 and n140 are in the 4895 and varget burn rate range. I've been looking hard at them as well as the staball match for an alternative. I'm thinking about the n135 for the m1 garand
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yep... good powders.
N133, 135, 140, I ditched Vargot long ago.

Also IMR's, 4064, 8208, 4895

it's a good idea to work up different loads, with different powders for while things like availability
and things like this, "the what if scenario"


N310 in 45acp really good powder for target / match stuff, beisdes....
www.ssusa.org

An NRA Shooting Sports Journal | USMC Match .45 Load

The .45 ACP 1911 automatic pistol can buck in your hand like a half-crazed bronco on steroids.
www.ssusa.org www.ssusa.org
"The Dorman load was put together on a Dillon progressive press using: New Winchester primed brass, trimmed to a consistent length; the relatively new Nosler 185 grain JHP; 4.1 grains of Vihtavuori N310 to a loaded cartridge overall length of 1.20”. Dorman used only virgin Winchester primed cases for his long line (50 yards) loads, and once- or twice-fired WW cases with Winchester WLP (Winchester Large Pistol) primers on the short line (25 yards). Dorman noticed some clear differences in accuracy between the virgin and once-fired cases out of a machine rest as he was developing this load. Test accuracy initially was on the order of 1 5⁄8” out of Dorman’s guns at 50 yards from a machine rest."

The deviations are bullets Zero 185gr JHP, CCI-300's

-Snoopz
 
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I love my k31. Have 2 bronze medals from cmp with mine. I use 4350 with 178 match bullets but have some good loads using 4895 with 155 grain bullets too.
 
Willie said:
I love my k31. Have 2 bronze medals from cmp with mine. I use 4350 with 178 match bullets but have some good loads using 4895 with 155 grain bullets too.
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I'm still using pulled M72 match bullets that I bought a couple decades ago. I must've bought 3k at the time. 4320 was my 7.5 powder but it was discontinued.
 
Cocked & Locked said:
Where are you guys finding IMR-4064 ?
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shop.hodgdon.com

IMR® 4064

Buy IMR 4064 directly from IMR. IMR 4064 is used for 223 Rem., 22-250 Rem., 220 Swift, 6mm Rem., 243 Win. Super Short Magnum, 308 Win., & 338 Win. Magnum.
shop.hodgdon.com shop.hodgdon.com

It's expensive these days
 
Cocked & Locked said:
Where are you guys finding IMR-4064 ?
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Not to be a smart-*ss.
Search on "Duckduckgo" "I don't use Google
for nothing"
IMR 4064.

just checked at time of this posting
Powdervalley
Natchez (cheapest)
Natchez "had free hazmat but expired"
Midsouth Shooters
Midway... most $$$
Bass Pro... next to most $$$

Hazmat & shipping are the killers

Checked my "goto" places they are out,
They are normally the cheapest, one even
delivered to me, when they came down my
way in MD.

I'm sure there are more.

Powder ain't cheap no more.

Maybe I should do a powder availability thread
like I did on another Forum long, long ago

-Snoopz
 
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Even at 65$/pound, it comes out to be about 40 cent a round. 26 cent a round at 40$ a pound. I can’t see 14 cent a round being a deal breaker on an accuracy rifle.
 
Jimbob78 said:
Even at 65$/pound, it comes out to be about 40 cent a round. 26 cent a round at 40$ a pound. I can’t see 14 cent a round being a deal breaker on an accuracy rifle.
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True that, thats "pocket change" compared to what a rig costs. When you buy them good bullets even adds up more.

But as a joke it sure is a far cry from the $5.95 #
days.:)

-Snoopz
 
Snoopz said:
True that, thats "pocket change" compared to what a rig costs. When you buy them good bullets even adds up more.

But as a joke it sure is a far cry from the $5.95 #
days.:)

-Snoopz
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I haven’t even seen those days, cheapest I had was 7828 for 15, but in a wby cartridge, it eats a lot, so…..

My philosophy has become, it’s about making each shot count, not bulk shooting. Try loading some of these cheytac improved cartridges with 150gn powder and a cutting edge Lazer with Peterson brass.
 
Jimbob78 said:
I haven’t even seen those days, cheapest I had was 7828 for 15, but in a wby cartridge, it eats a lot, so…..

My philosophy has become, it’s about making each shot count, not bulk shooting. Try loading some of these cheytac improved cartridges with 150gn powder and a cutting edge Lazer with Peterson brass.
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Yes sir, found a bunch of old receipts from the 70''s, early 80's....reload for the 458 WM, 460 Weatherby, 50BMG and the 338 Lapua, the later, 7828, Lapua brass, Lapua bullets or Cutting Edge. Was looking at the 408 Cheytac, put it on hold for now.

The 5.56 its surplus WC-844 mostly, maybe some 748. Bulk bullets.

7.62 Lapua brass, both types, 4064, 4895, 8208, but lots of..VV powders
Lapua bullets, Bergers, Sierra. Some LC 77-79 match brass in the mix.

-Snoopz
 
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Snoopz said:
Yes sir, found a bunch of old receipts from the 70''s, early 80's....reload for the 458 WM, 460 Weatherby, 50BMG and the 338 Lapua, the later, 7828, Lapua brass, Lapua bullets or Cutting Edge. Was looking at the 408 Cheytac, put it on hold for now.

The 5.56 its surplus WC-844 mostly, maybe some 748. Bulk bullets.

7.62 Lapua brass, both types, 4064, 4895, 8208, but lots of..VV powders
Lapua bullets, Bergers, Sierra. Some LC 77-79 match brass in the mix.

-Snoopz
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Honestly I’d go 375 cheytac, the 408s kinda fell flat quick. The big thing now are the 416 cheytac improved versions. I’ve had a 338 cheytac variant for a while now that I’m going to rebarrel to a 375 variety.

Lapua brass is worth the hype, but I got some reamers that I have to use adg and Peterson so I’m interested in seeing if it holds up and is the quality of Lapua. Berger bullets are my go to, except in the big stuff.
 
Jimbob78 said:
Honestly I’d go 375 cheytac, the 408s kinda fell flat quick. The big thing now are the 416 cheytac improved versions. I’ve had a 338 cheytac variant for a while now that I’m going to rebarrel to a 375 variety.

Lapua brass is worth the hype, but I got some reamers that I have to use adg and Peterson so I’m interested in seeing if it holds up and is the quality of Lapua. Berger bullets are my go to, except in the big stuff.
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You know may have to rethink the 408 and go with the 375, another friend of mine builds rifles and said to go 375. So your not the only one saying it.
Peterson brass is good also.
Bergers is the main bullets, I do have a supply of Lapua Moly coated 30 cal Scenars.
So it's Bergers, Lapua, Sierra, bigger cal is Cutting edge, and another company I can't think of right now solid bullets. Have used the cutting edge in 2 of the bolt guns.

-Snoopz
 
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