Bad news for Form 1 cans...ATF shuts down SDTA

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11B CIB

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Hearing bits and pieces of this, but SDTA released on their facebook page that the ATF has shut them down. They sells tubes, freeze plugs, etc for Form 1 suppressors. All completely LEGAL
 
link, google fu is weak atm

is see stag arms was shut down for unserialzed recievers
 
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I'm not on FB, but evidently this was posted in a Form 1 Suppressor group:

4F92453C-44AC-4EAF-8448-8074C0BCFD84_zps1ao5nqi0.png
 
Zedhound;n72714 said:
link, google fu is weak atm

is see stag arms was shut down for unserialzed recievers
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This is not Stag Arms. This is SD Tactical Arms.

From their Facebook:

"As of today the ATF shut down our business of selling solvent traps. This is 99% of our income. They have put 3 Veterans, my wife and son out of work. They said I can't sell freeze plugs. NAPA can't even sell them to us because they are a suppressor part. They said all I can sell is complete suppressor's. That is what we do for now until I get some legal help to fight these vauge laws or opinions. The issue is NFA items. He said tubes and freeze plugs were suppressor parts. Would that mean if you have a shotgun and a hacksaw you have a sawed off shotgun? If you own a AR isn't that a potential SBR?"


So....who can buy freeze plugs now, if they're ALL suppressor parts?
 
So....that ad I had up for Freeze Plugs....yeah....gone!
 
This begs the question: all the people who bought freeze plugs and made F1 cans.....are those gonna be recalled?
 
And here I sit waiting for Form 1s to be approved. I wasn't going to assemble my raw materials until I had approval in hand. With that said, ATF told a friend of mine he could go ahead and buy his tubes and plugs before getting approval, as long as he didn't assemble anything or drill holes. Wonder where that leaves the thousands of people out there like him who are sitting on the parts waiting for approval?
 
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Tim;n72758 said:
So....that ad I had up for Freeze Plugs....yeah....gone!
Click to expand...

I was seriously considering buying those from you, but was trying to decide if I wanted to go titanium first.
 
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Unknownpro;n72802 said:
sdta is one of several selling parts.
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And apparently, if those parts are freeze plugs....they might also be SUPPRESSOR PARTS! Small children and some family pets just died as a consequence of this behavior being legal
 
A friend of mine had a pending order from SDTA for more parts (for a third Form 1 can) and he just received an email saying they had been raided and all pending orders were canceled

Im trying to get a screenshot
 
So here is the thing. If this would truly kill his business, and if he believes he is doing nothing wrong, then he should keep selling and force the ATF to act. What's next, a raid on coke for selling bottles that can be used as suppressors, or maybe the pillow factory.

i have little sympathy for the solvent trap folks. Creative to be sure, but too close to the line.
 
JimB;n72980 said:
So here is the thing. If this would truly kill his business, and if he believes he is doing nothing wrong, then he should keep selling and force the ATF to act. What's next, a raid on coke for selling bottles that can be used as suppressors, or maybe the pillow factory.

i have little sympathy for the solvent trap folks. Creative to be sure, but too close to the line.
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Doesnt make them illegal

And if he DID get locked up and had to spend years and hundreds of thousands on lawyers, appeals, etc, just to be proved right? That's a bigger battle than most are able to wage and the ATF is banking on it
 
EThe atf threatening them for selling parts is like police threatening me for having a penis for rape.
 
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Zedhound;n73076 said:
EThe atf threatening them for selling parts is like police threatening me for having a penis for rape.
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Ask the women that marched last week, they'd say that's right. Constructive intent, time to lock you up.
 
JimB;n73182 said:
Ask the women that marched last week, they'd say that's right. Constructive intent, time to lock you up.
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You'll get me but you'll never take my penis Alive!!!
 
11B CIB;n73040 said:
Doesnt make them illegal
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True, but we all know that the people buying from Solvent Trap were doing so in order to build a suppressor. I doubt that they had many customers calling them because they needed a replacement freeze plug for their vehicle....

I'm actually somewhat impressed that ATF did not arrest them. They shut them down but did not press charges. That's like getting a warning from a cop for speeding. Personally I appreciate the warning much better than a citation.
 
Scsmith42;n73217 said:
True, but we all know that the people buying from Solvent Trap were doing so in order to build a suppressor. I doubt that they had many customers calling them because they needed a replacement freeze plug for their vehicle...
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So what? Until a suppressor is actually made the parts are meaningless. What if I bought a bunch of freeze plugs and a Maglite. They're just laying around the house...do I have a suppressor? No, I don't.

When I bought my tube and (un-drilled) end caps from SDTA, OF COURSE my intention was to build a suppressor. I did not complete the build until my stamp came in, but for those couple months when I had an empty tube and a handful of car parts laying around, was I a criminal? No. I wasn't.

Victimless "crimes" are what have moved me firmly into the libertarian camp and away from either brand of statist.
 
SDTA's issue is beyond that of other places that supply solvent trap parts.

SDTA is a 07/02, they had at their fingertips a process to submit their parts to tech branch for a classification. They choose not to. They have pretty aggressively marketed their products with the clear intention they are suppressor kits. They have booths at shows, ads in magazines, videos on youtube of the company itself converting them to suppressors. They make Commercial Suppressors, that use the same parts as their solvent traps, the same tubes, ends, freeze plugs, etc. There is not vagueness about it, you can't do that. You can't order a spare silencer tube from AAC, SiCo, etc. A commercial suppressor maker can't even replace a tube as part of repair, let alone sell them over the counter by calling them something else.

The freeze plug issue is a little different that how SDTA is selling it to the public also. A sealed power freeze plug is made for a car and 99.9+% of them go into cars. SDTA approached the freeze plug factory and had them make baffles for them in the size that would fit their tube. If you order a form 4 suppressor from SDTA, they come with these baffles.

I'm hopeful HPA passes soon an it is non issue.
 
Update from their FB page

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And as far as the comments like "They we're close to the line and they knew it"..... SO WHAT? If they're not over the line, meaning an actual legal violation, there's no basis for any arrest, shut down, etc. This needs to be fought, so in the likely event the HPA doesn't pass, things aren't that much worse for the industry
 
The text posted was copied from RoninPro, what their attorney got back. SDTA may come out ok, assuming they don't inform or the ATF doesn't find out other details. That SDTA is using the exact same parts in a commercial form 4 can, and if they don't disclose the nature of their freeze plugs, that they had them made for their suppressor use and not for automotive use.
 
If you have a Form 1 you can supply a copy of it (approved) and order SDTA parts again. There IOI apparently is considering their parts silencer parts, and says a 07/02 manufacture can sell silencer parts to a holder of a Form 1. The other solvent trap vendors are still operating as normal.
 
Ryan S.;n73938 said:
There IOI apparently is considering their parts silencer parts, and says a 07/02 manufacture can sell silencer parts to a holder of a Form 1.
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Isn't that a new interpretation of the regulations? Never heard that said before.
 
This sounds like Tom Cruise's movie Minority Report. Let's arrest people before they commit a crime.......
Total BS

Alphabet soup is getting soggy.....And more stupid.

DS
 
BigWaylon;n74024 said:
Isn't that a new interpretation of the regulations? Never heard that said before.
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Yes and no. He doesn't have it in writing but is going with it apparently. I had another 07/02 tell me the same thing a couple years ago, ATF told them they could sell completed parts if approved form 1.
 
11B CIB;n73717 said:
This needs to be fought, so in the likely event the HPA doesn't pass, things aren't that much worse for the industry
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??? Not the derail the thread, but why do you think it won't pass? It seems to have a solid support base and Trump has incentive to push it himself given his son has been a vocal supporter. With a 62 member 2A coalition, that's a lot of voices, though of course they must be aligned.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-announces-second-amendment-coalition
 
Jerzsubbie;n74291 said:
??? Not the derail the thread, but why do you think it won't pass? It seems to have a solid support base and Trump has incentive to push it himself given his son has been a vocal supporter. With a 62 member 2A coalition, that's a lot of voices, though of course they must be aligned.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-announces-second-amendment-coalition
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A lot of "2A but...." folks out there. TONS of gun owners don't see the need for silencers.

Read this thread below. Even SUPPRESSOR people are talking about how they don't want to make them mainstream

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/4...suppressors-last-night---with-my-own-dad.html
 
I hate to be negative, but suppressors will be used in crimes if they become cheap and readily available. Obviously that's not a valid reason to restrict them, but if they come off the NFA and then their use in crime ramps up we may see a backlash against freedom. So, as much as I hate to say it, I might be in favor of leaving the tax in place while eliminating the extra scrutiny and delay.
 
JimB;n75051 said:
I hate to be negative, but suppressors will be used in crimes if they become cheap and readily available. Obviously that's not a valid reason to restrict them, but if they come off the NFA and then their use in crime ramps up we may see a backlash against freedom. So, as much as I hate to say it, I might be in favor of leaving the tax in place while eliminating the extra scrutiny and delay.
Click to expand...


I wanted to post a Gif of me and wsfiredude
simultaneously beating our heads against a brick wall....But I don't have it in my gallery.
​​​​​​​......yet
 
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The Green Heron;n75056 said:
I wanted to post a Gif of me and wsfiredude
simultaneously beating our heads against a brick wall....But I don't have it in my gallery.
......yet
Click to expand...

I know.

​​​​​​​and pics or it didn't happen.
 
JimB;n75051 said:
, but if they come off the NFA and then their use in crime ramps up we may see a backlash against freedom.
Click to expand...


So in order to avoid having them subject to the NFA if they happen to be misused by criminals, we could leave them subject to the NFA so they won't be used by criminals.
 
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