Bald Eagles and Lead

rufrdr

rufrdr

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Get ready for a ban on lead shot and bullets for hunting nation-wide...

https://www.microsoftnewskids.com/e...oning-study-suggests/ar-AAU0z7o?ocid=msedgntp

"Most U.S. eagles suffer from lead poisoning, study suggests"​

Douglas Main 25 mins ago
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"Most bald and golden eagles in the United States have been repeatedly exposed to lead throughout their lives, new research shows. The primary source of exposure is ammunition—as eagles scavenge on the carcasses of animals shot by hunters, they can ingest lead fragments from rifle rounds and shotgun pellets."
 
Not the first study to indicate this. Its becoming pretty well-established as fact that lead ammo does cause a noticeable level of harm in raptors, particularly in the western US.
 
np307 said:
Not the first study to indicate this. Its becoming pretty well-established as fact that lead ammo does cause a noticeable level of harm in raptors, particularly in the western US.
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I feel like these “indications” are the same as the ones regarding smoking.

There is no definitive proof, but leaps of judgment. This isn’t science.
 
Ahh, yes, let’s trade quick painless kills using heavy standard load lead shells and replace it with steel so we can make sure to wound and maim more birds as we all whack away at them with less lethal than lead shells. Seems a fair trade to maybe kinda sorta possibly impact the lives of a small number of birds.

#quickdeathsmatter


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B00ger said:
Ahh, yes, let’s trade quick painless kills using heavy standard load lead shells and replace it with steel so we can make sure to wound and maim more birds as we all whack away at them with less lethal than lead shells. Seems a fair trade to maybe kinda sorta possibly impact the lives of a small number of birds.

#quickdeathsmatter


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When I duck hunted it was extremely difficult to kills ducks using steel. I wounded more than I killed it seemed. At least with lead it was a kill and your regulated limit finished the hunt. I shot a goose many times without killing it with steel #4 then chased it down and helicoptered its neck. Probably found one bird with lead in it’s system. That’s all it takes now to create more laws.
 
chiefjason said:
Well, anyone want to take a shot at explaining why Bald Eagle populations are booming then? Kinda weird don't you think? I never saw one until I was 22. Now I see them fairly regularly.
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They're now nesting behind my house.

According to this website, https://www.eagles.org/what-we-do/educate/learn-about-eagles/bald-eagle-diet/ their diet is, "Fish comprise about 70 to 90 percent of the diet of Bald Eagles. However, Bald Eagles are opportunist feeders, meaning they will feed on what is most available, and requiring the least amount of energy to acquire it. For example, Bald Eagles will often follow the fall migration of ducks and geese and feed on birds that have been injured by hunters. "
Therefore science shows we should go back to lead shot so there'll be fewer injured game.
 
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This is one of those things I wish technology could solve.
I want ethical kills on game and I want my homie the Bald Eagle down the street to not get lead poisoning.

I'd rather not eat lead, personally. Not saying I want lead banned, but it doesn't seem ideal. Need to get Elon on this problem.
 
NKD said:
This is one of those things I wish technology could solve.
I want ethical kills on game and I want my homie the Bald Eagle down the street to not get lead poisoning.

I'd rather not eat lead, personally. Not saying I want lead banned, but it doesn't seem ideal. Need to get Elon on this problem.
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For rifle hunting the solution exists but it's spendy. Solid copper Barnes bullets kill bigger than they ought to. I've dropped every deer I've shot with them in .300BLK right on the spot. While deer I've shot with older lead cup and core and even bonded core bullets in .308 and .30-06 have at times run considerable distances requiring tracking.

Not saying I'm in agreement with a lead ammo ban. But I've not shot a deer with a lead rifle bullet personally in probably 5 years.

Shotshells are another issue and anything other than lead is far more expensive and far less effective.
 
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RR said:
For rifle hunting the solution exists but it's spendy. Solid copper Barnes bullets kill bigger than they ought to. I've dropped every deer I've shot with them in .300BLK right on the spot. While deer I've shot with older lead cup and core and even bonded core bullets in .308 and .30-06 have at times run considerable distances requiring tracking.

Not saying I'm in agreement with a lead ammo ban. But I've not shot a deer with a lead rifle bullet personally in probably 5 years.

Shotshells are another issue and anything other than lead is far more expensive and far less effective.
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Indeed. Expense always the bottom line. Especially in a development phase.
 
CA's laws around this were odd. You couldn't shoot a deer with lead ammo, but you could shoot all the ground squirrels you wanted with lead. What's a hunter more likely to leave in the field... a deer carcass or 10000 ground squirrels?

You think steel shot is bad, wait until you try non-lead 22LR, stuff is useless. Can't hit a paper plate at 10 yards, much less anything alive at any distance you couldn't step on it. And non-lead musket balls? Forget about it. You know what you can't ram into a muzzle loader? A ball that doesn't deform. I still have 9 of the things if anyone wants to ruin their black powder gun.
 
BlackGun said:
When I duck hunted it was extremely difficult to kills ducks using steel. I wounded more than I killed it seemed. At least with lead it was a kill and your regulated limit finished the hunt. I shot a goose many times without killing it with steel #4 then chased it down and helicoptered its neck. Probably found one bird with lead in it’s system. That’s all it takes now to create more laws.
Click to expand...

Yep. This is my exact experience and point. They changed the law to steel only when I was young. Led my dad to buying the 835 I currently hunt with because at the time it was one of the few shotguns chambered for 3.5 inch shells, which were needed for the crappy steel shells available to even remotely have a chance of killing one out right.

I do remember the days of “dead before they hit the water”. These days even solid “folded them up” shots often lead to a second (or third) blast while they are on the water. And I have seen a bird on the water completely engulfed in a pattern and just swim off unfazed.

And knocking down swans or geese? Fuggedaboudit. Our guide used to just grab em up, now he chases cripples across the marsh cursing as he goes.

If I had to guess, based on 30+ years of experience, our “dead before they hit the water” ratio went from 80% down to about 30%.

The >only< saving grace has been developments in steel and alternative shot types. But even the best they have come out with is only roughly equivalent to a similar load in lead, and at double or triple the cost.

Now if I even roughly estimated the number of hunters having similar issues, that’s a whole magnitude of less-than-ethical kills taking place nation wide.

But…if it saves just one raptor the pain and suffering of a million ducks is worth it.


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chiefjason said:
Well, anyone want to take a shot at explaining why Bald Eagle populations are booming then? Kinda weird don't you think? I never saw one until I was 22. Now I see them fairly regularly.
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Those aren't Bald Eagles!! They're gummint spy drones!!
 
Considering that eagles mostly eat fish, and that fish have a tendency to concentrate heavy metals from the water, I wonder how much of that lead is being picked up from fish?

Its no secret that the old leaded gasoline pretty much covered the earth with a thin layer of lead contaminants. Aircraft still use it. That lead ends up in rain, falls on the ground, and eventually washes into creeks, rivers, and lakes.

I'd bet most of the lead poisoning that eagles experience comes from lead runoff from years of leaded gasoline, and not from eating the random wounded dove.
 
NKD said:
Indeed. Expense always the bottom line. Especially in a development phase.
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I'd think an even cheaper solution would be to require burying of any bullet damaged organs. Dig a little hole, put the lungs in and give the worms lead poisoning instead.
 
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Walkabout Dan said:
Study suggests, so I have no proof but this is how it happened so that I can take something away from you I don’t want you to have.
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Where the studies are done mean alot too. You can't put our small population of Eagles here at the SC coast against the flocks of the Alaska birds that are like the seagulls at the landfills.
 
chiefjason said:
Well, anyone want to take a shot at explaining why Bald Eagle populations are booming then? Kinda weird don't you think? I never saw one until I was 22. Now I see them fairly regularly.
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Easy....Gerbil Warning
 
Bald Eagles are slightly less ugly buzzards. I care not for them.
 
chiefjason said:
Well, anyone want to take a shot at explaining why Bald Eagle populations are booming then? Kinda weird don't you think? I never saw one until I was 22. Now I see them fairly regularly.
Click to expand...

chiefjason said:
Well, anyone want to take a shot at explaining why Bald Eagle populations are booming then? Kinda weird don't you think? I never saw one until I was 22. Now I see them fairly regularly.
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DDT. You can read about eagle populations here: https://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/N...s, in turn, were,or otherwise failed to hatch.
 
Sleipnir said:
DDT. You can read about eagle populations here: https://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/Nhistory/biologue.html#:~:text=Bald eagles, in turn, were,or otherwise failed to hatch.
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DDT does not explain why lead poisoning is the end for a species that is flourishing currently. I get the history. But seems pretty alarmist to talk about a species like that when it’s doing quite well. Lead is everywhere. Pinning it on a political hot button issue is a guess at best, political pandering at worse.
 
The surface of lead oxidizes, sealing it from leaching out. Industrial products that contain lead are very dangerous.
It seems the simple fix is to copper plate lead shot.
Then the sensitive ones will fear Cu poisoning instead of Pb poisoning.
 
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