Einzelfeuer
Well-Known Member
Forgot about that option. However, to truly be a SCAR owner one must become zen with hating money.
Battle Rifle
- Thread starter JBB
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SCAR's are good. But ridiculously overpriced right now. Money is always a factor for me. Whether I do or do not have enough of it. I can get what I want, within reason of course. But I have to feel like I am making a good choice and getting a reasonable/good deal.
I would really like to own one of the small POF Rogues. 6lbs and more AR15 sized.
pof-usa.com
Rogue - POF-USA - The lightest 308 MSR ever imagined!
A sub 6 pound .308 rifle packed with features and innovations. Thanks to its ridiculously light weight, the Rogue is ready for any adventure!
pof-usa.com
I can give you what I understand of the rifle, just accept that I'm probably wrong.
So, the roller delayed action was developed in WW2. It was famously seen in the Stg45, that was never fully completed before the war ended.
When WW2 ended, a lot of scientists and engineers from Germany moved to Spain or Argentina. Some of them took the roller delayed setup, and used it to develop the Cetme for Spain.
Germany wanted a new rifle, and liked the FAL. When they wanted to check with FN about making the FAL in Germany, problems happened. FN was owned by a German company before WW1, then taken over by Germany during WW1. And then it happened again 22 or so years later in WW2. FN basically told Germany to stick it.
Germany needed a cheap rifle to compete with the AK, because East Germany and the Soviets were on their border. That's what the G3 is by the way, not a precision gun, a western AK kinda rifle.
They talked to Spain, and to the engineers that made the Cetme. Had them come back, found HK, and make some tweaks, turn it into the G3.
Other countries wanted to make it, and so HK sold them the technical package and tooling to make their own, because most countries want to make, rather than import weapons, so that war or embargo's don't leave them high and dry.
As to the HK91, this has to do with their numbering system.
9 stands for "semi-auto rifles" and 1 for "7.62x51"
That is the civilian, non select fire version of the G3, that HK sells.
PTR, a US company, wanted to make G3/HK91's, to fill in a void in the market. They bought the tooling from Portugal, who had moved on to different weapons, and started making their own. For copyright reasons, had to be careful in how they name it.
Century got ahold of parts kits for cetme's, and had their trained monkeys turn them into the C308 abominations.
That all make sense?
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I enjoy my Galil ACE, add a proper handguard ( RS Regulate, or Midwest Industries..... both are good, pick your favorite flavor!), and add an Optic you like ( Aimpoint PRO, in a low ring mount cowitnesses well....). A good sling. I put a Lantac Dragon on mine... its nice.
Add ammo. Add mags. Trigger gets better with use, and its, at its core, an AK....
Add ammo. Add mags. Trigger gets better with use, and its, at its core, an AK....
I have the MI one on mine, its awesome.
I just wish there were more after market items available for the ace..namely a trigger. The stock trigger isnt terrible by any means, and it is a 100x better than G3 trigger...but it could be better.. (there is always room for improvement right?)
.....always room for improvement.
That said....
The trigger is immensely functional, compared to most contemporary rifles one would compare it to... and in a package thats juuuust modern "enough"
I would love a Geissele trigger for it though.
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With the future of gun rights being so crazy I’d stick with an AR-10 just because of parts availability. I wish I had built an Aero lower & upper I once had ... along with nice 18” BA barrel but dumbass traded it because I didn’t want to really track down the other stuff I really wanted in the build ... thank you Odumba ... and someone else wanted those pieces real bad then.
I don't know which one I'd grab.
Choice of several. AR in 223.AR in 6.5 Grendel AR 10 in 308, AR in450 Bushmaster AR in 458 socom , M1Garand, M1A. Best all around is M1A in 308 . But it's heavy but lots of punch and is a tack driver
Choice of several. AR in 223.AR in 6.5 Grendel AR 10 in 308, AR in450 Bushmaster AR in 458 socom , M1Garand, M1A. Best all around is M1A in 308 . But it's heavy but lots of punch and is a tack driver
not a bad “go to”
I just recent finished my "battle rifle". I'd take into consideration which calibers you have on hand or can obtain/afford at the time. Me personally did 5.56 due to the ammo I have in laying around and shoot majority of the time. I'd love to do something in .308 but am lacking the ammo nor do I have any in that caliber.
Timfoilhat
Time is my accomplice
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The way you get there with the ammo on hand is to buy a box whenever you see a box. You won't miss the $20-ish much on a week to week basis. At the end of the year you might have about 1000 rounds accumulated without feeling like you just spent $1k. The thing about .308 is it's heavy. The guns are heavy and the ammo is heavy. Trying to move 1000 rounds on foot is impractical in a end of world scenario so you'll likely not ever need that much. If you're setting it back to be dug in to a location the math changes though.
Chuckman
Senior Member
Now you are raising a whole 'nother issue; using a rifle (esp. a 'battle' rifle) as 'defense'. Unless your house is under siege, you have time to move. If you feel like you have to shoot someone >100 yards away for defense, a prosecutor is going to try to nail you.
When I was a DMR I carried the SAM-R. Chambered in 5.56 with a free-floating 20" Douglass barrel, 2-stage trigger, and 3-9 optic, it was perfectly fine for what I needed. I had as a choice the M-14, but didn't have nearly enough time on it to feel proficient; and KAC M110, which I liked but crapped the bed far too often.
Timfoilhat
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Yep.
Uh if I’m shooting people to protect me and mine the last thing I’m worried about is a prosecutor......I was talking about end of the world crap not what your thinking.
Chuckman
Senior Member
End of the world stuff? OK.
I think battle rifles are fun. If I had guns I might have one. But not super practical unless they get double-duty for range gun and/or hunting rifle.
readyphasers
New Member
On the AR-10, there is no true universal standard like the AR-15 so while most parts from different companies will be interchangeable, there might be some parts that do not fit right with each other. But it is still the most modular and easiest to find when it comes to replacement parts for compared to your G3/FAL/SCAR/Galil. Building a AR-10 might be best for those who want customization.
I recently decided to up my “battle rifle“ game. I’ve owned an 18” FAL, and an 18” Scout Squad but sold them off. I liked both of them, but neither lent itself to modernization. AR-10’s just never interested me,so that left a G3 clone. Plus the mag prices can’t be beat. I bought 25 mags for $6.95 each.
I recently picked up a PTR-91 and have been adding stuff over the last several months.
So now it’s mostly finished but I haven’t shot it with the new stock and optic. Hopefully I’ll be able to make it to the range next week and see how everything works together.
Specs:
PTR-91 with 18”barrel
Spuhr Stock
Midwest Industries Handguard
MFI Rail
Vortex Spitfire HD Gen II 3x
Vickers Sling
I recently picked up a PTR-91 and have been adding stuff over the last several months.
So now it’s mostly finished but I haven’t shot it with the new stock and optic. Hopefully I’ll be able to make it to the range next week and see how everything works together.
Specs:
PTR-91 with 18”barrel
Spuhr Stock
Midwest Industries Handguard
MFI Rail
Vortex Spitfire HD Gen II 3x
Vickers Sling
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Einzelfeuer
Well-Known Member
Looks like mine.
PTR91 A3S
Spuhr stock
heavy buffer
Bill Springfield trigger pack on a clipped and pinned lower
VG6 Epsilon
I went with black grip and used a NOS black heatshield handguard.
Shoots great and handles like an AR with the Spuhr. I go back and forth between a 1-4x scope and a Holosun 510.
I've owned them all but the SCAR Heavy, and my go to's would be either of my AR10's, next would be my FAL or M14 type (I rate them as equal), then my 7.62 NATO Garand, and finally the G3/CETME.
Ergonomics, parts availability, and platform familiarity are the biggest factors
Ergonomics, parts availability, and platform familiarity are the biggest factors
Years ago this was different, but today you have the ability to buy/build a quality AR 10 that is more modular than PTR91s , FALs , and even the SCAR. The SCAR has a following, but literally at a rifle match yesterday with a guy on my squad with a SCAR. From his own mouth, he wouldn’t buy it again & it doesn’t do anything any better than an AR 10 for 1/2 the money - not the cheapest AR10 you can buy - but a quality one. He even added in the current climate he is considering dumping his and buying a really nice AR10
Einzelfeuer
Well-Known Member
I have the taller riser on order now. Seems to be the way to go.Your post made me dig through my furniture sets for some OD green.
Einzelfeuer
Well-Known Member
I bought all of them because I had zero way to know what I needed. The one that comes with it works best with my 1-4x in low rings and the highest works best for anything AR height.
Spuhr R-410: G3 Stock Assembly
Spuhr G3 Stock Assembly. 6-position stock assembly with replaceable cheek piece allowing for different sight solutions.
www.milehighshooting.com
They're pricey, but I knew it was the right call the first time I shouldered it. The cheek risers are available separately.
They also make the same stock for the MP5.
Einzelfeuer
Well-Known Member
My vote goes with the arms these gents are carrying. The rifles seem to be holding up pretty well in less than optimum conditions.
FAL's and G3's are pretty much the rifles of choice for anti-poaching operations too.
Chdamn
Dungeon Master
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First we need to know if your definition of a battle rifle is the same as NATO or something different.
To be a MBR a rifle needs to consistently shoot a 3 inch group (or better) at 100 meters.
The main focus is reliable function with any kind of ammo.
If your definition differs from that then the recommendation will change.
All of that said. If your definition matches the NATO definition then a H&K or PTR 91 is about the most reliable of the choices you laid out. With PTR you have to find an older barrel. Not the newer match grade ones.
And if you want to have one in a manageable size check out the PTR 51. Technically a pistol so you’ll need a tax stamp to put on a folding stock but good lord is it awesome when you do.
Mine does sub 2 at 100 meters. And that’s suppressed.
To be a MBR a rifle needs to consistently shoot a 3 inch group (or better) at 100 meters.
The main focus is reliable function with any kind of ammo.
If your definition differs from that then the recommendation will change.
All of that said. If your definition matches the NATO definition then a H&K or PTR 91 is about the most reliable of the choices you laid out. With PTR you have to find an older barrel. Not the newer match grade ones.
And if you want to have one in a manageable size check out the PTR 51. Technically a pistol so you’ll need a tax stamp to put on a folding stock but good lord is it awesome when you do.
Mine does sub 2 at 100 meters. And that’s suppressed.