Bible Prophecy Part 4: The Millennium

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The Millennium


-This thread deals with the different views of the Millennium. Discussions of the Millennium come from Revelation chapter 20.

Many will list 3 views, but here in this study I list 4, as I break Traditional Premillennialism and Dispensational Premillennialism into different camps; they are just strikingly different.
Whereas the study of the different schools of Eschatology primarily deal with Revelation 4-19 only, the Millennium deals only with Revelation chapter 20.

The 4 schools of Eschatology do not translate over to these 4 basic views of the Millennium. Lots of blending occurs with various schools when the Millennium question comes into discussion. In the book Revelation: Four Views, A Parallel Commentary, by Steve Gregg, the author states that: "This is because Revelation 20, like many other prophecies in Scripture, deals with the ultimate question of God’s kingdom being established upon the earth. The interpretation of Revelation 4–19, on the other hand, is concerned only with the timing of the Great Tribulation, whether it be placed early or late in the church age, or whether it is coextensive with the whole of the church age. Thus the timing of the Tribulation and the timing of the kingdom of God are separate and independent concerns."

The Blue Letter Bible Institute wrote this concerning Millennial views: "Before coming to a dogmatic millennial perspective, the lone fact that so many well-intentioned and intelligent Christians believe so variously when it comes to Revelation 20 must give us pause. The Book of Revelation itself is probably the most curious and oft-debated piece of the canon. This ought to place us in a position of caution when either accepting or dismissing another's interpretation."

Below is Revelation 20:1-10 in three different translations. The 3rd translation is for Catholic readers.
At the Bottom is a brief video on the different views. A longer view is included with each view.

King James Bible
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



New American Standard Bible
Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.



Douay Rheims Bible (for our Catholic readers)
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
Rev 20:3 And he cast him into the bottomless pit and shut him up and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations till the thousand years be finished. And after that, he must be loosed a little time.
Rev 20:4 And I saw seats. And they sat upon them: and judgment was given unto them. And the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God and who had not adored the beast nor his image nor received his character on their foreheads or in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power. But they shall be priests of God and of Christ: and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and shall go forth and seduce the nations which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog: and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:8 And they came upon the breadth of the earth and encompassed the camp of the saints and the beloved city.
Rev 20:9 And there cane down fire from God out of heaven and devoured them: and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast
Rev 20:10 And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever
.




Here's a book reference
Screenshot_20230212-115535_Amazon Shopping.jpg


Here are links to the other Prophecy Studies

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6
 
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Historic Premillennialism

In a Nutshell: after the great Tribulation, Jesus returns, raptures the Church, physically rules the 1000 years millennium. Then the Church is taken to heaven for New Jerusalem.


-The oldest and first Millennial view of the Church fathers. Jewish expectations of the Millennium (age of the Messiah) predated Jesus.

-The Millennium is either literally 1000 years, or an indefinite period of time.

-This view places the return of Christ just before the millennium and just after a time of great apostasy and tribulation. After the millennium, Satan will be loosed and Gog and Magog will rise against the kingdom of God; this will be immediately followed by the final judgment. While similar in some respects to the dispensational variety (in that they hold to Christ's return being previous the establishment of a thousand-year earthly reign), historical premillennialism differs in significant ways (notably in their method of interpreting Scripture).

-Holds to a historical grammatical method of interpretation of prophecy.

-Israel and the church: The church is the fulfillment of Israel. The Church is spiritual Israel. There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile among believers; if, through faith you belong to Jesus, you’re Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (Gal 3:29); there is no jew or gentile.

-Kingdom of God: present through the Spirit since Pentecost - to be experienced by sight during the millennium after Christ's return.

-The Rapture: The saints, living and dead, shall meet the Lord in the clouds immediately preceding the millennial reign.

-The Millennium: Christ will return to institute a thousand-year reign on earth.

-The historical premillennialist's view interprets some prophecy in Scripture as having literal fulfillment while others demand a semi-symbolic fulfillment. As a case in point, the seal judgments (Revelation 6) are viewed as having fulfillment in the forces in history (rather than in future powers) by which God works out his redemptive and judicial purposes leading up to the end.
-Rather than the belief of an imminent return of Christ, it is held that a number of historical events (e.g., the rise of the Beast and the False Prophet) must take place before Christ's Second Coming. This Second Coming will be accompanied by the resurrection and rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18); this will inaugurate the millennial reign of Christ. The Jewish nation, while being perfectly able to join the church in the belief of a true faith in Christ, has no distinct redemptive plan as they would in the dispensational perspective. The duration of the millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:1-6) is unsure: literal or metaphorical.

-Major proponents: George Eldon Ladd, Walter Martin, John Warwick Montgomery, and Theodore Zahn. Justin Martyr, Iranaeus. [Many early Ante-Nicene Church fathers].



Bibliography:

Ladd, George Eldon. A Commentary on the Revelation. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1972. (ISBN: 0802816843)

Ladd, George Eldon. The Last Things: An Eschatology for Laymen. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1982.

Ladd, George Eldon. The Gospel of the Kingdom. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1959. (ISBN: 0802812805)

Culver, Robert Duncan. Histories & Prophecies of Daniel. Winona Lake, Indiana: BHM Books, 1980. (ISBN: 0-88469-131-4)

Campbell, Donald K. and Townsend, Jeffrey L. A Case for Premillennialism: A New Consensus. Chicago: The Moody Press, 1992.




 
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Amillennialism

In a nutshell: The Millennium is now. The millennium is symbolic of a long, indeterminate period, corresponding to the age of the church (now), not a literal 1000 years.


This is the 2nd Oldest view of the Millennium; dated to the late 2nd and 3rd century.

-Amillennialism, which means “no millennium,” takes its name from its denial that there will be a special golden age of literally 1,000 years, either before or after the return of Christ. Revelation 20 is understood symbolically or spiritually, so that the reign of the saints depicts either the vindicated martyrs reigning from heaven in the present age, or earthly believers achieving spiritual victory over personal sin during the same period. The time frame is seen to be the whole time between Christ’s first and second advent. Thus the binding of Satan at the beginning of the Millennium is associated with the First Coming of Christ, and the “fire from heaven” at the end of the Millennium is associated with His Second Coming.

-The amillennial position sees the millennium as “realized,” or better explained as “millennium now.” The Church age is the millennium, and we are in it now.

-The Millennium started with Christ's resurrection, at which point he gained victory over both Satan and the Curse. Christ is even now reigning at the right hand of the Father over His church.
-After this present age has ended, Christ will return and immediately usher the church into their eternal state after judging the wicked.

- The "already but not yet".
Christ already reigns over all and is already victorious over Satan. (cf. Acts 2:16-21; 1 Corinthians 10:11; Hebrews 1:1-2; and 1 Peter 1:20). But he has not yet returned, and we await Jesus’ 2nd advent.


-The amillennial perspective emphasizes that the coming of the Kingdom of God is a two-part event.
-The first portion dawned at Christ's first advent (John the Baptist proclaimed at this time, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand" — Matthew 3:2). At the cross, Christ won final victory over death and Satan. And then He ascended to reign upon the throne of David forever (Luke 1:32-33; Acts 2:30-31). Now because we "look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal" (2 Corinthians 4:18) — because of this, the amillennialist sees the final things already accomplished, though not yet seen by sight, but by faith (2 Corinthians 5:7).
-This second stage of the amillennial perspective is the final consummation of all the heavenly promises. The Christian will no longer see by faith alone, but by sight. All the shadowy things will pass away and our eternal reign with Christ will begin. The amillennialist, expecting no earthly glory for the church, places all his hope on this heavenly glory.

-An important note is the amilleniallist's view of the church in this world: a role of suffering. The Christian will be hated by all, just as was Christ (Matthew 10:22), for a servant is not greater than his master. Seeing this as the church's role on earth — to suffer as did Christ — the amillenialist can hold no hope for an earthly exaltation and longs for the fulfillment of the second stage of the coming of the Kingdom.

- Satan will be loosed briefly to wreak havoc and to persecute the church in the end of the present age. A general resurrection and judgment of the evil and the good will occur at Christ’s coming, followed by the creation of new heavens and a new earth.

-The Rapture: The saints, living and dead, shall meet the Lord in the clouds and immediately proceed to judge the nations with Christ and then follow Him into their eternal state.

-Israel and the church: Similar to Postmillennialism, the church is the eschatological fulfillment of Israel. The Church is Spiritual Israel.

-Kingdom of God: a spiritual reality that all Christians partake in and that is seen presently by faith, but will be grasped by sight at the consummation.

-The amillennial view, along with premillennialism, is one of the oldest in church history, being held since the first century. In the 5th century, Augustine settled on the amillennial view as his understanding of eschatology. Additionally, amillennialism was the primary view of most of the Reformers in the 16th century.


-The term "amillennialism" is actually a misnomer for it implies that Revelation 20:1-6 is ignored; in fact, the amillennialist's hermeneutic interprets it (and in fact, much of apocalyptic literature) non-literally.

-Proponents of Amillennialism did not take this name…it was used as a pejorative…and it just kinda stuck.

Major proponents: Meredith Kline, Richard Gaffin, Robert B. Strimple, Gregory K. Beale, and John Murray.

Bibliography:

Hoekema, Anthony. The Bible and the Future. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1994. (ISBN: 0802808514)

Hendrikson, William. More Than Conquerors: An Interpretation of the Book of Revelation. Grand Rapids: Baker Books-, 1939. (ISBN: 0801057922)

Beale, G.K. The Book of Revelation: A Commentary on the Greek Text. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1999. (ISBN: 0-8028-2174-X)

Strimple, Robert B. "Amillennialism." Three Views of the Millennium and Beyond. Ed. Darrell L. Bock. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House,1999. (ISBN 0-310-20143-8)

 
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Postmillennialism

In a Nutshell: Jesus comes back after the 1000 year reign.


-3rd oldest view of the millennium. First creed of this view was published in 1658

-The most optimistic view of the Church on society; The Gospel will make the world better. The great commission will succeed and make the world a better place to be.

-The Power of the Church will get greater and greater, not smaller and smaller.

-This view of the Millennium states that Jesus comes back after the 1000 year reign visibly, bodily, and gloriously, to end history with the general resurrection and the final judgment after which the eternal order follows.

-The postmillennialist believes that the millennium is an era (may or may not be a literal thousand years) during which Christ will reign over the earth, not from an literal and earthly throne, but through the gradual increase of the Gospel and its power to change lives. This will be a glorious golden age.

-Christ will virtually rule over the whole earth through an unprecedented spread of the Gospel; the large majority of people will be Christian. The 1,000 years of peace will be accomplished through no other agency than that which is already in the possession of the church, i.e., the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, and the worldwide fulfillment of the Great Commision. The world will become Christianized, either as the result of worldwide revival and mass conversions, or through the imposition of Christian ideals by converted rulers and Christian governments—or both.

-The binding of Satan represents a future point in time when the successful preaching of the gospel will have effectively reduced Satan’s influence to nothing.
-A final attempt on the part of a loosed Satan at the end of the age will get nowhere. • A general resurrection and judgment will occur at the coming of Christ.

-The postmillennialist sees the millennial kingdom as the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would become "a great nation" and that "all peoples on earth would be blessed" through him (Genesis 12:2-3)
The church is the fulfillment of Israel; The Church is Spiritual Israel.

-Kingdom of God: a spiritual entity experienced on earth through the Christianizing affect of the Gospel.

-Preterism often (but not always) goes hand-in-hand with postmillennialism.

-postmillennial eschatology seems to be the fastest view gaining Popularity in the world today.
-Still the minority position.

-Major proponents: Rousas J. Rushdoony, Greg L. Bahnson, Kenneth L. Gentry Jr., David Chilton, and Gary North.


-There are several different versions of postmillennialism, but one of the views gaining the most popularity, is that of the theonomists. Generally speaking, the postmillennial theonomist viewpoint holds to a partial-preterist interpretation of Revelation and the various judgment prophecies in the Gospels, believing that the majority of those prophecies were fulfilled in 70 A.D. at the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.



Bibliography:

Murray, Iain H. Puritan Hope. The Banner of Truth Trust, 1996. (ISBN: 085151247X)

Kik, J. Marcellus. Eschatology of Victory. Nutley: Presbyterian & Reformed Publishing, 1974. (ISBN: 0875523137)

Gentry Jr., Kenneth L. He Shall Have Dominion: An Eschatology of Victory. Institute for Christian Economics, 1992 (ISBN 0930464621)

Boettner, Loraine. Millennium. Presbyterian Reformed Publishing Company, 1992. (ISBN: 0875521134)

Mathison, Keith A. Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope. Presbyterian & Reformed Publishing Company, 1999 (ISBN: 0875523897)

Gentry Jr., Kenneth L. "Postmillennialism." Three Views of the Millennium and Beyond. Ed. Darrell L. Bock. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House,1999. (ISBN 0-310-2014


 
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Dispensational Premillennialism

In a Nutshell: Rapture, then 7 years of tribulation, Jesus returns, Millennial kingdom.
The “Left Behind”, “Late Great Planet Earth” view states that the Church is Raptured, there will be a 7 year tribulation period, then Jesus comes back, starts the Millennial reign with Ethnic Israel only, and then Israel joins the Church in Heaven with Jesus forever.


-The Newest Millennial interpretation. Originated in 1830 - John Nelson Darby

- This view is called premillennialism because it places the return of Christ before the millennium and it is called dispensational because it is founded in the doctrines of dispensationalism.

-Dispensationalism believes in a special status of the ethnic nation of Israel in the redemptive work of God in the end-times, resulting in a restored millennial temple in Jerusalem complete with Levitical priests and animal sacrifices.

-Dispensationalism views the church and Israel as two distinct identities with two individual redemptive plans.

-Kingdom of God: starts with the millennial reign of Christ; many New Testament passages of the Gospels are not for Christians; they are for Jews during the Kingdom of the Millennium.

-Israel and the Church are 2 different groups. Some Dispensationalists believe ethnic Israel need not be converted to Christianity, or believe in Jesus; some believe they will be converted before Jesus returns.

-Dispensational premillennialists hold that Christ will come before a seven-year period of intense tribulation to take His church (living and dead) into heaven. After this period of fulfillment of divine wrath, He shall then return to rule from a holy city (i.e., the New Jerusalem) over the earthly nations for one thousand years. After these thousand years, Satan, who was bound up during Christ's earthly reign, will be loosed to deceive the nations, gather an army of the deceived, and take up to battle against the Lord. This battle will end in both the judgment of the wicked and Satan and the entrance into the eternal state of glory by the righteous

-The binding of Satan is yet in the future. It will take place when Christ returns.

-The 1,000 years is a literal period during which Christ will reign on earth from Jerusalem, with His people.

-The loosing of Satan will bring the Millennium to its climax, followed by the resurrection and judgment of the wicked at the Great White Throne.

-The new heavens and new earth will be created after the Millennium, i.e., 1,000 years after Christ’s Second Coming.

-The rapture of the Church: The church is raptured before a seven-year tribulation (the seventieth week of Daniel - Daniel 9:24-27). This tribulation period contains the reign of the AntiChrist.

-This is the only view that has this new and unique way of Interpreting Daniel 9:27

-Calls for a unique strictly literal hermeneutic

-Higher degrees of interpreting present-day events in the light of end-times prophecy.

-The Millennium will see the re-establishment of temple worship and sacrifice as a remembrance of Christ's sacrifice.

-From the millennium-ending "white throne" judgment (by which Satan and all unbelievers will be thrown into the lake of fire) Christ and all saints will proceed into eternal glory.


- Premillennialists understand the 1,000 years to follow the return of Christ. Thus, they believe in a premillennial return of Christ (before the Millennium). Among those who hold to this view, there are two major varieties: the dispensational and the historic premillennialists. The principal points of departure between these two groups is that the former, whereas the historic pre millenarians see the church, rather than ethnic Israel, as prominent in the millennial period. Dispensationalists also are distinctive in holding that the church will be raptured out of the earth seven years prior to the commencement of the Millennium, whereas other premillennialists see the Rapture of the church as occurring simultaneously with the descent of Christ to earth at the establishment of the millennial order.

Millennium: Christ will return at the end of the great tribulation to institute a thousand-year rule from a holy city (the New Jerusalem). Those who come to believe in Christ during the seventieth week of Daniel (including the 144,000 Jews) and survive will go on to populate the earth during this time. Those who were raptured or raised previous to the tribulation period will reign with Christ over the millennial population.




Major proponents: John Walvoord, Charles Ryrie, Louis Sperry Chafer, J. Dwight Pentecost, Norman Geisler, Charles Stanley, Chuck Smith, and Chuck Missler, C I Schofield, Clarence Larkin. John Nelson Darby

Special Note: For the major proponents of Dispensationalism, there is a lot of nuance and variations of teachings. Differing camps have emerged.


Blue Letter Bible Synopsis:
Dispensational premillennialism holds that a seven-year tribulation (forseen in Daniel 9:27) will precede a thousand-year period (Revelation 20:1-6) during which time, Christ will reign on the throne of David (Luke 1:32).

Immediately previous to the time of great tribulation, all the dead saints will rise from their graves and all the living members of the church shall be caught up with them to meet Christ in the clouds (1 Corinthians 15:51-52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17); this is known as "the rapture." During this time of tribulation, there will be three-and-a-half years of world peace under an AntiChrist figure (Daniel 7:8; Revelation 13:1-8) who will establish a world-church (Revelation 17:1-15), followed by three-and-a-half years of greater suffering (Revelation 6-18). At the end of this period, Christ will return (Matthew 24:27-31; Revelation 19:11-21), judge the world (Ezekiel 20:33-38; Matthew 25:31; Jude 14-15), bind Satan for one thousand years (Revelation 20:1-3), and raise the Old Testament and tribulation saints from the dead (Daniel 12:2; Revelation 20:4).

At this time, the millennial reign will begin and Christ will reign politically over the earth at this time from His capital in Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:3). Throughout His reign, there will be no war (Isaiah 2:4) and even the natures of animals will dwell in harmony (Isaiah 11:6-9). At the end of this era of peace, Satan will be released and instigate a colossal (but futile) rebellion against God (Revelation 20:7-9). After this fated battle, Satan and the wicked are cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10), while the righteous proceed into their eternal state in the realm of the new heaven and the new earth Revelation 21:1ff).



Bibliography:

Darby, John Nelson. Synopsis of the Books of the Bible: Revelation – 2021(new printing)

(ISBN 979-8729508358)

D.D. Schofield, C.I. . Scofield Reference Bible: Jan 1, 1917 (reprint)
(ISBN 1603867279)

Larkin, Clarence. Dispensational Truth: or God’s Plan and Purpose in the Ages: 1920
(Public Domain )

Pentecost, J. Dwight. Things to Come. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1978. (ISBN 0310308909)

Ryrie, Charles. The Basis for Premillennial Faith. New York: The Loizeaux Brothers, 1953. (ISBN 0872137414)

Walvoord, John. Every Prophecy of the Bible. Colorado Springs: Chariot Victor Publishing, 1999. (ISBN 1-56476-758-2)

Walvoord, John. The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Chicago: Moody Press, 1966. (ISBN 0-8024-7310-5)

Blaising, Craig A. "Premillennialism." Three Views of the Millennium and Beyond. Ed. Darrell L. Bock. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House,1999. (ISBN 0-310-20143-8)



 
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Thank you so much for all your effort, work and time
Outstanding job!
Well done!

So we just pick one of the four above and submit to God for approval? Hahaha
Sorry, early morning humor. I sure don’t have the answer and can see some validity in the first ( historic) and last ( dispensational pre). I have not watched the videos yet. I’ll be sure to.
Thanks again!
 
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Thank you so much for all your effort, work and time
Outstanding job!
Well done!

So we just pick one of the four above and submit to God for approval? Hahaha
Sorry, early morning humor. I sure don’t have the answer and can see some validity in the first ( historic) and last ( dispensational pre). I have not watched the videos yet. I’ll be sure to.
Thanks again!
I grew up in a Dispensational church. I left that viewpoint when I studied all of them independently. I now take a pan-millennial view; meaning that I think each one [pre, post, A] has merit. Currently I don't favor any one in particular. The more I study, the more uncertain I get.
 
I have given away so many copies of "The Millenium: Four Views" by Clouse that I gave up keeping count.

There is so much emotion and irrational emotionalism surrounding this stuff that it is difficult to simply look at it. There is a youtube out there of a prof at the Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville who goes over the various millennial views which is dispassionate, humble, scholarly, and excellent. He is fair, thorough, and honest... a difficult combo to maintain when walking thru this minefield.
I myself am very unstable on this, having read lots of stuff. I will read the Puritans and think "ok, that is it. I am post mil and I am waiting on the big revival!" Then I read GE Ladd and think "no, the literalists on Rev 20 have something genuine to say here, and Papias and other early fathers WERE chiliasts" and then I read Hoekema, or Hendricksen "More than Conquerors" and am scuttled back in to the "realized mil" camp (sometimes called "a-mil"

I used to joke about my lack of decisiveness and laugh that I was "pan mil"... as in "it will all pan out in the end"

I am decidedly NOT dispensational pre mil, despite my great respect for John Macarthur. Lots of problems with that view which are-imo- too great to overcome

Even then, one of my best friends in Beaumont TX was a Dallas Seminary bible church pastor, whom I used to tell "there is no biblical warrant for a pre trib "secret" rapture..., but if it were to happen, you can say "I told you so!" on the way up.
 
I have given away so many copies of "The Millenium: Four Views" by Clouse that I gave up keeping count.

There is so much emotion and irrational emotionalism surrounding this stuff that it is difficult to simply look at it. There is a youtube out there of a prof at the Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville who goes over the various millennial views which is dispassionate, humble, scholarly, and excellent. He is fair, thorough, and honest... a difficult combo to maintain when walking thru this minefield.
I myself am very unstable on this, having read lots of stuff. I will read the Puritans and think "ok, that is it. I am post mil and I am waiting on the big revival!" Then I read GE Ladd and think "no, the literalists on Rev 20 have something genuine to say here, and Papias and other early fathers WERE chiliasts" and then I read Hoekema, or Hendricksen "More than Conquerors" and am scuttled back in to the "realized mil" camp (sometimes called "a-mil"

I used to joke about my lack of decisiveness and laugh that I was "pan mil"... as in "it will all pan out in the end"

I am decidedly NOT dispensational pre mil, despite my great respect for John Macarthur. Lots of problems with that view which are-imo- too great to overcome

Even then, one of my best friends in Beaumont TX was a Dallas Seminary bible church pastor, whom I used to tell "there is no biblical warrant for a pre trib "secret" rapture..., but if it were to happen, you can say "I told you so!" on the way up.
That indecisiveness that you speak of is me 1000%
 
I have given away so many copies of "The Millenium: Four Views" by Clouse that I gave up keeping count.

There is so much emotion and irrational emotionalism surrounding this stuff that it is difficult to simply look at it. There is a youtube out there of a prof at the Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville who goes over the various millennial views which is dispassionate, humble, scholarly, and excellent. He is fair, thorough, and honest... a difficult combo to maintain when walking thru this minefield.
I myself am very unstable on this, having read lots of stuff. I will read the Puritans and think "ok, that is it. I am post mil and I am waiting on the big revival!" Then I read GE Ladd and think "no, the literalists on Rev 20 have something genuine to say here, and Papias and other early fathers WERE chiliasts" and then I read Hoekema, or Hendricksen "More than Conquerors" and am scuttled back in to the "realized mil" camp (sometimes called "a-mil"

I used to joke about my lack of decisiveness and laugh that I was "pan mil"... as in "it will all pan out in the end"

I am decidedly NOT dispensational pre mil, despite my great respect for John Macarthur. Lots of problems with that view which are-imo- too great to overcome

Even then, one of my best friends in Beaumont TX was a Dallas Seminary bible church pastor, whom I used to tell "there is no biblical warrant for a pre trib "secret" rapture..., but if it were to happen, you can say "I told you so!" on the way up.
Would that be this video?
 
If you want a summary of why I appreciate but reject dispensational pre mil, here it is:

Respect: There ARE NO "Liberal" dispensationalists. The reason is that they take the bible at its face when it claims to be the word of God. This much is not for debate. THEREFORE, when they believe that something is LITERALLY taught, then it is LITERALLY true. When the Older Covenant talked about "Israel" it was talking about a geopolitical, Abrahamic lineage group of people defined by national borders, civic codes, a political structure, army, courts, etc. The reason is that the "rule" (we call it a "hermeneutic" or principle for interpretation) they use for interpreting the bible, and especially prophecy, is "literal whenever possible."

Again, this DOES guard against spiritualizing away specific promises of God (a hallmark of liberalism). The problem is... this is NOT the hermeneutic the New Testament uses to interpret many of those very passages. The New Testament defines Israel as the Church, the promise of Abraham to include not just the "eretz" (land) of Palestine, but he ENTIRE WORLD (check Romans 4), the "seed" of Abraham as both Christ and the whole of his followers, and much more.

That is it in a nutshell, although I could go into much more detail.
 
If you want a summary of why I appreciate but reject dispensational pre mil, here it is:

Respect: There ARE NO "Liberal" dispensationalists. The reason is that they take the bible at its face when it claims to be the word of God. This much is not for debate. THEREFORE, when they believe that something is LITERALLY taught, then it is LITERALLY true. When the Older Covenant talked about "Israel" it was talking about a geopolitical, Abrahamic lineage group of people defined by national borders, civic codes, a political structure, army, courts, etc. The reason is that the "rule" (we call it a "hermeneutic" or principle for interpretation) they use for interpreting the bible, and especially prophecy, is "literal whenever possible."

Again, this DOES guard against spiritualizing away specific promises of God (a hallmark of liberalism). The problem is... this is NOT the hermeneutic the New Testament uses to interpret many of those very passages. The New Testament defines Israel as the Church, the promise of Abraham to include not just the "eretz" (land) of Palestine, but he ENTIRE WORLD (check Romans 4), the "seed" of Abraham as both Christ and the whole of his followers, and much more.

That is it in a nutshell, although I could go into much more detail.
Since Dispensationalism is the most unique of all Christian views of Eschatology, I am going to dedicate a thread just to it, its beginning, history, development, and good and bad effects that it has in culture.
It will be the last thread in the prophecy studies however. I'm hoping to get everyone's opinions in that thread, so when it posts...and it may be a little while..feel free to unload and not hold back.
 
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