I have always loved lever guns. And especially Big Bore ones............ Now, in my opinion, big bore can run anything from .400 caliber up, regardless of cartridge. In my mind, 45 Colt lever guns, are big bore, and have a place of course considering big bore. Normally we think, 45/70, or in some cases, 50 Alaskan--.510 version. For the purposes of this thread, we will consider all cartridge and rifles above .400 caliber, this way lots of others can join in........ No, I do not consider anything under .400 to be big bore.........
I used a Marlin Guide gun 45/70 quite a bit back in the day. In many ways I was a little disappointed in its performance, especially compared with some other big bores I had been using, namely 458 Winchester. In those days, there were no real bullets for these things. If you wanted deeper penetration, you had to use a cast bullet. Such as from Cast Performance. These also came up short in many ways. Of course I was pushing them hard as well. Another favorite of the time was the 350 Hornady FN. This was a superb bullet in the day, and probably about the best expanding bullet we had for 45/70. I ran it at 1900-1950 fps and they would not break up. In fact, at 1500 fps they didn't expand either, which in some ways suited me making sure the bullet would not break up.
I had some failures then. I also loved the Remington 405. But 1800 fps was too much for that bullet, it would break up on bone. I remember chasing a young kudu we shot for bait one day. At 30 yards hit him on the shoulder with the 405 at 1800 fps, he took off running, and limping along. I did not have another shot. Finally after hours of chasing caught up to him and put him down. The 405 had broken up on the shoulder, not getting to the vitals. Lesson learned. Back to the test box. Of course, the test work showed this before hand, I just didn't pay attention!
I had to be careful with the 405s. Later I made it a rule just to not start them off any faster than 1600 fps and they worked pretty good. Extremely accurate bullets too by the way. And a good cheap shooting bullet for plinking and such, even in larger .458s.
I shot quite a few things with the 45/70 back then, Kudu, wildebeest, warthogs and such.......
It was always good fun, and the gun was short, easy to carry, very fast, But in the end, it came up short when it come to bullet design. It could be better, but at that time there were few choices.
I was in Zimbabwe one year hunting elephant. The elephant rifle was 458 Lott. But I had the Guide Gun along with as a camp gun, and various other smaller things. I had not planned on anything serious with it at all. I believe I was shooting a 420 Cast Performance, and pushing it hard, too hard actually. My PH on this trip was fascinated with the little gun, had never seen one, and decided we had to try it on Cape Buffalo. OK.... No worries. We got up on a herd of buffalo, and had one decent bull in the crowd. It was a bit of a glancing shot on the shoulder at 60 yards, buffalo jumped and ran like he had not been hit at all. Out of sight with the herd. Only a drop or two of blood, and not good blood, just meat!
I was feeling like crap! We sit for it seemed like hours (probably only a few minutes in reality-but time slows down) and I pondered what I had done wrong? Shot looked good? I knew I did not have enough gun, and I was wishing for the 458 Lott loaded with 500 Solids! But it was not available and way too far back at the vehicle to consider, we were in the thick of things, and it was Guide Gun or throw rocks!
Finally the herd started moving, probably 50 or more animals in the herd, we watched them stroll by and go down a ridge, near single file. At the back of the herd, our bull was following. The PH recognized him, pointed him out and we got into position. At around a 40 yards I hit him just behind the shoulder as he turned, he bucked up, took off and disappeared behind some brush. Before we could get to the bottom of the hill, we heard the "death Bellow" that buffalo give sometimes, and knew we had him then.
When it was all said and done, that first shot had glanced off the shoulder, and drove up into the meat of the neck, not penetrating any vitals at all. Bullet had deformed on the heavy bone and not penetrated, like I had hoped for. Another lesson learned...........
Sometime later I was using another 45/70, a hi grade Winchester 1886. Had it in California hunting bears with the Rob Boys out of Utah. Fortunately the dogs treed this bear close to the truck, this gun was heavy, and I dreaded having to run after dogs dragging it along. We got the bear in a big ponderosa tree, and I had to carry it exactly TWO STEPS from the truck! HEH HEH.... I was thankful for that.....
The bear was way up in a tree. High enough that all I could make out was a ball of black, couldn't see head from ass. I backed up the hill from the tree for a better angle, and finally decided just to shoot in the middle of the black ball and hope for the best. I was shooting again a 405 Remington, and in the 1886 it was well over 1900 fps, way above it's operating range........... At the shot, the bear came tumbling down out of the tree and hit the ground with a big thump. It was struggling to get back up, I was running to it, and down hill at the time. I got tangled up with a damn dog, and went skidding face first straight into the bear! I held on the gun, it was RTG--Ready to go, hammer back! I kept it safe, and out of the dirt, but not my face and chest area! I came skidding to within about 6-7 feet of the bear, jumped up and put a quick one in before it could get back up, and that was it, end of story.........
That bullet did some crazy stuff, it actually hit on the rear right ham, it broke up, a piece of it exited the bears hind leg, entered back into the hear, and fortunately going through the lungs. It was a ball of bear in that tree. Lesson learned again, maybe....................
Well, thats all I have time for right now. This should be just a beginning of this thread and more to come. Please feel free to jump in, don't wait on me. I am sure there are lots of big bore lever guns out there in the Carolinas, so lets see them....... I will continue on maybe later today with some more stuff..........
I used a Marlin Guide gun 45/70 quite a bit back in the day. In many ways I was a little disappointed in its performance, especially compared with some other big bores I had been using, namely 458 Winchester. In those days, there were no real bullets for these things. If you wanted deeper penetration, you had to use a cast bullet. Such as from Cast Performance. These also came up short in many ways. Of course I was pushing them hard as well. Another favorite of the time was the 350 Hornady FN. This was a superb bullet in the day, and probably about the best expanding bullet we had for 45/70. I ran it at 1900-1950 fps and they would not break up. In fact, at 1500 fps they didn't expand either, which in some ways suited me making sure the bullet would not break up.
I had some failures then. I also loved the Remington 405. But 1800 fps was too much for that bullet, it would break up on bone. I remember chasing a young kudu we shot for bait one day. At 30 yards hit him on the shoulder with the 405 at 1800 fps, he took off running, and limping along. I did not have another shot. Finally after hours of chasing caught up to him and put him down. The 405 had broken up on the shoulder, not getting to the vitals. Lesson learned. Back to the test box. Of course, the test work showed this before hand, I just didn't pay attention!
I had to be careful with the 405s. Later I made it a rule just to not start them off any faster than 1600 fps and they worked pretty good. Extremely accurate bullets too by the way. And a good cheap shooting bullet for plinking and such, even in larger .458s.
I shot quite a few things with the 45/70 back then, Kudu, wildebeest, warthogs and such.......
It was always good fun, and the gun was short, easy to carry, very fast, But in the end, it came up short when it come to bullet design. It could be better, but at that time there were few choices.
I was in Zimbabwe one year hunting elephant. The elephant rifle was 458 Lott. But I had the Guide Gun along with as a camp gun, and various other smaller things. I had not planned on anything serious with it at all. I believe I was shooting a 420 Cast Performance, and pushing it hard, too hard actually. My PH on this trip was fascinated with the little gun, had never seen one, and decided we had to try it on Cape Buffalo. OK.... No worries. We got up on a herd of buffalo, and had one decent bull in the crowd. It was a bit of a glancing shot on the shoulder at 60 yards, buffalo jumped and ran like he had not been hit at all. Out of sight with the herd. Only a drop or two of blood, and not good blood, just meat!
I was feeling like crap! We sit for it seemed like hours (probably only a few minutes in reality-but time slows down) and I pondered what I had done wrong? Shot looked good? I knew I did not have enough gun, and I was wishing for the 458 Lott loaded with 500 Solids! But it was not available and way too far back at the vehicle to consider, we were in the thick of things, and it was Guide Gun or throw rocks!
Finally the herd started moving, probably 50 or more animals in the herd, we watched them stroll by and go down a ridge, near single file. At the back of the herd, our bull was following. The PH recognized him, pointed him out and we got into position. At around a 40 yards I hit him just behind the shoulder as he turned, he bucked up, took off and disappeared behind some brush. Before we could get to the bottom of the hill, we heard the "death Bellow" that buffalo give sometimes, and knew we had him then.
When it was all said and done, that first shot had glanced off the shoulder, and drove up into the meat of the neck, not penetrating any vitals at all. Bullet had deformed on the heavy bone and not penetrated, like I had hoped for. Another lesson learned...........
Sometime later I was using another 45/70, a hi grade Winchester 1886. Had it in California hunting bears with the Rob Boys out of Utah. Fortunately the dogs treed this bear close to the truck, this gun was heavy, and I dreaded having to run after dogs dragging it along. We got the bear in a big ponderosa tree, and I had to carry it exactly TWO STEPS from the truck! HEH HEH.... I was thankful for that.....
The bear was way up in a tree. High enough that all I could make out was a ball of black, couldn't see head from ass. I backed up the hill from the tree for a better angle, and finally decided just to shoot in the middle of the black ball and hope for the best. I was shooting again a 405 Remington, and in the 1886 it was well over 1900 fps, way above it's operating range........... At the shot, the bear came tumbling down out of the tree and hit the ground with a big thump. It was struggling to get back up, I was running to it, and down hill at the time. I got tangled up with a damn dog, and went skidding face first straight into the bear! I held on the gun, it was RTG--Ready to go, hammer back! I kept it safe, and out of the dirt, but not my face and chest area! I came skidding to within about 6-7 feet of the bear, jumped up and put a quick one in before it could get back up, and that was it, end of story.........
That bullet did some crazy stuff, it actually hit on the rear right ham, it broke up, a piece of it exited the bears hind leg, entered back into the hear, and fortunately going through the lungs. It was a ball of bear in that tree. Lesson learned again, maybe....................
Well, thats all I have time for right now. This should be just a beginning of this thread and more to come. Please feel free to jump in, don't wait on me. I am sure there are lots of big bore lever guns out there in the Carolinas, so lets see them....... I will continue on maybe later today with some more stuff..........
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