Bounty for All CFF Supporting Members

So if 12 seconds is "pretty good" and 6 seconds is "nigh impossible" let's hear some predictions for best actual time by a CFFer. And if anyone knows Jerry Miculek's phone number pass it along to Billy. I'd like to see that one.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Pard, what you posted And others could not possibly Help prepare for something that is Something Else entirely. The Only connection was...all the shooters were shooting.


The above is exactly what I posted about your example...how is That crapping on your guy???
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Man, as God is my witness: I have no idea what you are saying here.

But I’m going to try and respond honestly. You posted a cool drill that we have all been aware of for many many years. But I think we understand your are a knowledgeable oldschool shooter and like the original way the inventor layed it out nearly half a century ago. Great.

But like all drills, some people (even great shooters) have modified that drill. Some shoot it in a way you don’t approve of, most likely. Let’s face it: it’s just a drill and doesn’t measure a shooter in totality. It’s just a drill among many many drills. Your fav wizard being another basic drill.
I am gonna go out on a limb and imagine Travis understands this drill as well or better than you and me and doesn’t care what you or me thinks. Nothing about what he does or has done hinges on your opinion of him. He, like anybody who is not a moron, understands that if you make targets smaller and spread them out further, it takes longer to shoot them.

That’s it. You don’t like it: that’s fine with me, Pard. I’m not here to please or agree with you. Cheers and peace be with you.
 
Catfish said:
So if 12 seconds is "pretty good" and 6 seconds is "nigh impossible" let's hear some predictions for best actual time by a CFFer. And if anyone knows Jerry Miculek's phone number pass it along to Billy. I'd like to see that one.
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I talked to Billy about this last Sunday while I was there. I have cleared this drill at Battery Oaks, and like said, if memory serves me, the time was a 10.44. I have a strange way of remembering numbers for those cool things I do (old drag racer here who still remembers times from drag strips while I was in high school). I'm not the best shooter, nor the fastest, but I believe there are many here who can do it in the 10 second frame.

I was gonna shoot it last Sunday while there, but was focused on the open carry qualifier that he has set up now. Now that drill frustrated me, lol. I made it to the last stage, and ran out of ammo with two shots to go........... Never made it back to the last stage. But like the wizard, I will prevail, lol. I will get in that book, you can count on it.
 
And another thing, it seems some of you are getting frustrated at Billy's insistence on shooting it right, like the old school way. I don't see the problem. If you want to shoot the El Pres with the targets closer together so it makes a faster drill, and makes you look better, then call it a Modified El Pres. You can bet your azz that no coins will be given out for a modified F.A.S.T. drill that Todd Green (RIP) invented. Not everything has to evolve into something else, just because. If you do, call it what it is, a modified version of the original.

I'm also of the camp that feels it should be repeatable. Like the F.A.S.T. drill, has to be done twice to get the coin. You have to pass the first, can miss the 2nd, but have to get the 3rd. I'm sure if I took enough ammo to BO's, and just sat there shooting the El Pres, I could get a flyer and do it quicker than 10 seconds, but doubt very seriously I could do it twice in the same day...........or maybe I could, lol. Like you guys say, it's only a drill, so if you don't agree, that's fine, just don't get pissed at us who like to shoot the original version of a staple drill.
 
NKD said:
Man, as God is my witness: I have no idea what you are saying here.
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I believe you.
NKD said:
He, like anybody who is not a moron, understands that if you make targets smaller and spread them out further, it takes longer to shoot them.
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Now I believe you Do understand.
BatteryOaksBilly said:
He is GOOD x 1,000.
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Again, THIS is what I said about your guy.
NKD said:
I then picked a guy who is a top professional who is indisputably worth listening to when it comes to these things. I mean, it is Travis Tomasie, nobody is going to crap on this guy, right?!!?
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Now I believe you don't understand.

This is what I sincerely Do Want You To Understand....There is nothing in this thread or on this forum that could make me change my feelings about you....since I came on here you have been friendly, supportive, humorus and above all a "shooter". Those are the things that matter to me in my tiny world. I still can't wait for you to visit us. This past weekend on Saturday and Sunday we had a total of over 80 people. I sincerely wish you had been with us. And by the way...there wasn't a sub 10 second shooter in the Bunch.
 
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Me and @NKD should ride down there and visit. I'd like to see the place and meet the folks. Plus, it gives me the perfect excuse to eat a bunch of fast food that I shouldn't be eating. Like Biscuitville or Bojangles.

One thing that I must admit (when it comes to centerfire stuff anyway) is that I go to matches for the socializing aspect. And I guess, if I'm being really honest, it is most of the reason I do the rimfire matches too. I set a competition goal for myself some years back, with the full knowledge that I probably wouldn't reach it. But I did, much to my amazement. So I don't have anything to prove to myself or anyone else. At this point, I do what I do because it is fun and the people who go to the matches I go to are awesome.

My personal goal nowadays is to simply be a better shooter. If I'm last place at the match, but see improvement in my own performance, I'm okay with that. The Big Goal is to get new shooters into the shooting sports. Transitioning "gun owners" into "shooters" is what I'm all about now.

The great thing about these drills, that @BatteryOaksBilly is talking about, is that they give us all an objective standard for the purposes of self assessment. Punching holes in paper is fun, but if you want to see if you're getting better or not, keeping track of your time on certain drills is the key to that. It don't matter so much what the drill is so long as everyone is on the same page (for the sake of comparison anyways).

I've had strings of fire I thought were pretty good, but the timer said they stunk. I've had other strings I thought were slow but they turned out to be okay after all. So long as we've got some sort of measuring stick, we're good to go.

Somewhere around here I've got a shoot-me-first vest but I don't know if my little pistol bay is wide enough for a real El Prez. I've never practiced the Wizard either so I need to get on that too.
 
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I found the original article in American Handgunner, Jan/Feb 1979, pages 22-25. As described above, 3 targets 10 meters away, 3 meters apart. "The Option target has a 25cm (10") center."

Scoring is 5 for each " A " hit, divided by time, times 16.67 to normalize par to 100. Par in the article is 6, or 12 A hits x 5 = 60 in ten seconds, times 16.67 = 100. Cooper says, "Thus a very good string might show 55 points in 8.2 seconds for an index of 6.7, convertible to 111 2/3. All this calls for a hand calculator, but these are very common now." (Remember, this was 1979.)

Below is a score of 172.5 by Rob Leatham. These targets don't look 3 meters apart and the distance is unknown, although it looks to be about 10 yards. At 1:47 Rob is doing some other calculation, but I get 10 hits x 5 points = 50 divided by 4.83 seconds = 10.35 times 16 2/3 = 172.5.

The challenge here is 60 / 6 = 10 * 16.67 = 166.7. @BatteryOaksBilly would that score be good enough for a Pepsi and a Milky Way?

Caution: never invite a CPA or engineer to a gun fight!

 
dmarbell said:
@BatteryOaksBilly would that score be good enough for a Pepsi and a Milky Way?
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:D😀😃😄😁You Dang better well believe it Pard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOPPPPPS, I looked again....wrong distance between target and NO slide lock....NO MILKY WAY FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Studentofthegun said:
Me and @NKD should ride down there and visit. I'd like to see the place and meet the folks. Plus, it gives me the perfect excuse to eat a bunch of fast food that I shouldn't be eating. Like Biscuitville or Bojangles.
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It would be my Pleasure to try to Fill you up on the Bojangles treats.
Studentofthegun said:
The great thing about these drills, that @BatteryOaksBilly is talking about, is that they give us all an objective standard for the purposes of self assessment. Punching holes in paper is fun, but if you want to see if you're getting better or not, keeping track of your time on certain drills is the key to that. It don't matter so much what the drill is so long as everyone is on the same page (for the sake of comparison anyways).
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Thanks Pard...you said that Soooo much better than I tried to do it..Thanks to you and @Stick Man .
Studentofthegun said:
Somewhere around here I've got a shoot-me-first vest but I don't know if my little pistol bay is wide enough for a real El Prez. I've never practiced the Wizard either so I need to get on that too.
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We're here Every day....Come have FUN....good food.....good conversation..be warned, there will be rough talk...
dmarbell said:
These targets don't look 3 meters apart....
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And Thus...............No Milky Way for Him. No slide lock reload either....Great shooting BUT...Not an El Prez.
 
dmarbell said:
Scoring is 5 for each " A " hit, divided by time, times 16.67 to normalize par to 100. Par in the article is 6, or 12 A hits x 5 = 60 in ten seconds, times 16.67 = 100. Cooper says, "Thus a very good string might show 55 points in 8.2 seconds for an index of 6.7, convertible to 111 2/3.
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dmarbell said:
10 hits x 5 points = 50 divided by 4.83 seconds = 10.35 times 16 2/3 = 172.5.

The challenge here is 60 / 6 = 10 * 16.67 = 166.7. @BatteryOaksBilly would that score be good enough for a Pepsi and a Milky Way?
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I get it Now....you're just trying to see if you can make an Old Man's head EXPLODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAFF:rolleyes::confused:o_O....our scoring is all done on 8 inch Steel plates. Proper distance down range...Proper distance apart....4 rounds on each......Pass/Fail.
 
Stick Man said:
I talked to Billy about this last Sunday while I was there. I have cleared this drill at Battery Oaks, and like said, if memory serves me, the time was a 10.44.
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Yep and this was some time back also...and it is Still the best ever done here. Hey Shane!! Remember the story I told you about shooting the 10 inch steel plates at 100 Yards and winning all the Money????? Using that strategy, I can run it Consistently in the 12s;):D:p
 
The shooting sports has a wide variety of skill sets involving speed,accuracy and distance using many different platforms. Mostly a plinker ,I shot for 50 years before ever doing it on the timer. The anticipation and sound of that beep really ramps up the game. I watched Shane do the Open Carry Challenge at Battery Oaks and thought ,WOW, that guy is fast. I followed him and got maybe 3/25 shots that were acceptable. But the seed is planted. I have a goal to work toward doing something I enjoy in a different style than my comfort zone. Hopefully I'll get my name in that book and after that maybe try for that steak dinner and $100 bill. Fun to try new games.
 
Studentofthegun said:
Me and @NKD should ride down there and visit. I'd like to see the place and meet the folks. Plus, it gives me the perfect excuse to eat a bunch of fast food that I shouldn't be eating. Like Biscuitville or Bojangles.

One thing that I must admit (when it comes to centerfire stuff anyway) is that I go to matches for the socializing aspect. And I guess, if I'm being really honest, it is most of the reason I do the rimfire matches too. I set a competition goal for myself some years back, with the full knowledge that I probably wouldn't reach it. But I did, much to my amazement. So I don't have anything to prove to myself or anyone else. At this point, I do what I do because it is fun and the people who go to the matches I go to are awesome.

My personal goal nowadays is to simply be a better shooter. If I'm last place at the match, but see improvement in my own performance, I'm okay with that. The Big Goal is to get new shooters into the shooting sports. Transitioning "gun owners" into "shooters" is what I'm all about now.

The great thing about these drills, that @BatteryOaksBilly is talking about, is that they give us all an objective standard for the purposes of self assessment. Punching holes in paper is fun, but if you want to see if you're getting better or not, keeping track of your time on certain drills is the key to that. It don't matter so much what the drill is so long as everyone is on the same page (for the sake of comparison anyways).

I've had strings of fire I thought were pretty good, but the timer said they stunk. I've had other strings I thought were slow but they turned out to be okay after all. So long as we've got some sort of measuring stick, we're good to go.

Somewhere around here I've got a shoot-me-first vest but I don't know if my little pistol bay is wide enough for a real El Prez. I've never practiced the Wizard either so I need to get on that too.
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I agree SOTG. We are aiming for a standard and using a basic drill to challenge ourselves against that standard.
IMO, it matters less how you set it up. It matters that it challenges you to push yourself and that you work toward a goal of shooting improvement.

My point in all of this is it is just as easy to post Ben Stoeger running a SAY... SUB 3.7 version of this drill (call it whatever you want) and say "I got a hunnerd bucks to whoever can actually do this" knowing full well it is a world champion I just posted and almost nobody can do it. Super easy to do that.

This is just my opinion and nothing to get ruffled about.
 
NKD said:
I agree SOTG. We are aiming for a standard and using a basic drill to challenge ourselves against that standard.
IMO, it matters less how you set it up. It matters that it challenges you to push yourself and that you work toward a goal of shooting improvement.

My point in all of this is it is just as easy to post Ben Stoeger running a SAY... SUB 3.7 version of this drill (call it whatever you want) and say "I got a hunnerd bucks to whoever can actually do this" knowing full well it is a world champion I just posted and almost nobody can do it. Super easy to do that.

This is just my opinion and nothing to get ruffled about.
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We on the same page homie.

Not to be "that guy" but the original description prescribes a 10" circle instead of an 8" circle. So if we're being purists about the whole thing, the description of the course of fire would have to be altered. Personally I don't mind having different versions of the drill. I got a small bay so I'd have to shoot a modified version of it anyways. Then again I ain't getting anywhere close to what Hackathorn was shooting anyway.

I did just eat two Bojangles biscuits though, and at the moment feel like anything is possible.
 
Taking one of the boys to the range tomorrow. Going to set up the El Presidente. I have no chance of beating it,
but I’ll try.

I had forgotten the exact set-up, so I googled it. Every other link has the targets one yard apart.

Lame.

We’ll have 3 targets 10 feet apart, center to center, at a distance of 10 METERS.
 
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BatteryOaksBilly said:
There are still only 2 names in The Book Of Love............................................for the Open Carry Quals...............
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I guarantee I’ll have my name in that book this coming year. That’s a New Years resolution I will keep, lol.
 
I know damn well you men are good shooters. There are Wizard Killers amongst you. After today, do Any of you think a 4 second EP is possible?
 
crickets......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
crickets......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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We just reaffirmed yesterday that which I already know.
I can shoot fast.
And I can shoot accurate.
But I can’t do both.
 
fieldgrade said:
We just reaffirmed yesterday that which I already know.
I can shoot fast.
And I can shoot accurate.
But I can’t do both.
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Kinda like I tell Ronnie Sue about her Explorer....It can be Eco or it can be Boost...but it can't be Eco&Boost. What times did Y'all get???
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Kinda like I tell Ronnie Sue about her Explorer....It can be Eco or it can be Boost...but it can't be Eco&Boost. What times did Y'all get???
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They say that once you post something on the internet, it’s forever.
So I’ll go with my post above.

“downhill after that"
 
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It has been a while since I’ve attempted a official EP for time. Back in my prime on a great day in the 8s, with 9s being consistent. But that has been many years ago. I’ll have to set it up this week and see my current skills. I’m intrigued about this wizard I keep hearing about, do tell, do tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
I can not get below 13....not if I live another 75 years. There for the world to see.
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I shot it fourteen and change with several dropped shots shooting it cold, and the next time I went hell for leather and shot it under ten, but half to two thirds of the shots were off the paper plates, but still on the torso.
 
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fieldgrade said:
I shot it fourteen and change with several dropped shots shooting it cold, and the next time I went hell for leather and shot it under ten, but half to two thirds of the shots were off the paper plates, but still on the torso.
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I think that's pretty good. Sounds like you're in the 17-20 second range. It makes Ole Ken and Vickers times look unobtainable for me. I'm Way too slow on the reloads and then try to make it up by shooting "Faster than I can".
I was really wanting regular shooters to see that the 4-6 second El Prez is a MYTH. It can't be done. Those that say they can or know people that can or have seen people that can....Can't. Not when done done right....I think you posted the fastest times ever by Leatham....not close to 4-6.
Thanks for going to the trouble to find out for Yourself. Personally, I Only value opinions from folks that have tried. We had a man on here once that said The Wizard was So simple and So easy he didn't even have to try to know he could do it.
Helllllll everythings easy if you don't try.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
I think that's pretty good. Sounds like you're in the 17-20 second range. It makes Ole Ken and Vickers times look unobtainable for me. I'm Way too slow on the reloads and then try to make it up by shooting "Faster than I can".
I was really wanting regular shooters to see that the 4-6 second El Prez is a MYTH. It can't be done. Those that say they can or know people that can or have seen people that can....Can't. Not when done done right....I think you posted the fastest times ever by Leatham....not close to 4-6.
Thanks for going to the trouble to find out for Yourself. Personally, I Only value opinions from folks that have tried. We had a man on here once that said The Wizard was So simple and So easy he didn't even have to try to know he could do it.
Helllllll everythings easy if you don't try.
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Everything is a trade off isn’t it. I can reload a G17 lickity-split, but I can’t put rounds on target as accurately as I can with a 1911. And even if I could the difference would be only incremental.

The past two years I have really curatiled both my practice and my match shooting pretty dramatically, and I can really tell how it has negatively impacted my times and my accuracy. Also the mistakes I make. I can design a stage, and set up the stage, and still shoot it wrong.

That said, it is still good to get out and remind myself of what my weaknesses are with a firearm.
 
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