bullet weight for defense 9mm

Ian's Dad

Ian's Dad

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let's assume for a minute that I can find what I want.

I have a sig p365 and a CZ p01 that I carry. all other things being equal would you recommend 147 grain or 124 grain for carry ammo?
 
Some 147 will be a different bullet shape than 124, although the advertised pictures won’t show it that way. The 147 often are conical bullets with the flat tip and don’t run the same, especially in small guns, like the P365.

Get 124, and be sure whatever you get will run in that defensive weapon.
 
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What I personally carry...not necessarily a recommendation, as I am no expert:

Speer 124 Gold Dot

I chose this cartridge over the 147 grain based on published ballistics:

Velocity—————124———147
M——————— 1150———985
25———————1092———957

Energy—————124————147
M———————364————317
25———————328————299
 
Dale Gribble said:
What I personally carry...not necessarily a recommendation, as I am no expert:

Speer 124 Gold Dot

I chose this cartridge over the 147 grain based on published ballistics:

Velocity—————124———147
M——————— 1150———985
25———————1092———957

Energy—————124————147
M———————364————317
25———————328————299
Click to expand...
Love the 124 Gold Dots. Likely better expansion with the higher velocity in the shorter barrel guns, too.
 
124+p HST goes in the Sig P938

147 grain RA9T goes in the Beretta 92 that can share magazines with the PCC.

I've got some Gold Dot 124 that is in my wife's guns. She shoots it better than the HST for some reason.
 
Plenty of great options these days and most of them perform very well in both 124 & 147. My personal choice is GDHP 124+P, but it’s almost a coin toss with the 147.
 
Something else I like about Gold Dots. Minimal muzzle flash in the dark. You don’t go blind after blasting that home invading varmint after your first shot.
 
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I use a 147 grain Gold Dot in a PPS. Barrel’s too short to capitalize much on +P, so I stick with standard.
 
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Why not both :)

I typically go with 147 grain because I shoot suppressed.
 
124 Gold Dot or HST. Standard or +P doesn’t matter.

Critical Duty 135s are fine as well.
 
If you compare 124 & 147 grain loads in a 5” barrel vs a 3” barrel you will find that the 147 grain loads lose less velocity than the 124 grain loads in a shorter barrel, so the train of thought is that the 147gr loads will have a better chance at staying within the velocity envelope that allows for better expansion, the difference in velocity loss is more pronounced with +P loads.

I haven’t researched the above information in many years so the current Gold Dot & HST loads my have a wider envelope in which the bullet will expand to its maximum diameter, but 8-10 years ago the most popular self defense loads had a fairly narrow velocity window to properly expand and “most” testing suggested that heavy for caliber loads spent more time in the barrel which allowed for more/most of the powder to be burnt which in turn lost less velocity over a lighter bullet which would leave the barrel before all of the powder charge could be burned which in turn caused lighter loads to lose velocity at a much higher rate.

I personally carry a G19 and I switch between 147gr HST, 147gr +P HST & 124gr +P Gold dots, I have no real reason for swapping loads other than because I can.

My wife & daughter both carry M&P Shield 9mm handguns and I can confirm for a fact that there is a considerable amount of unburnt powder residue in their guns after shooting +p self defense ammo, a good bit less with standard pressure 124gr self defense ammo but nearly none when shooting 147gr HST or Gold Dot ammo.

Now with all of that said, you can purchase “short barrel” ammo specifically designed for short barrels, I personally don’t see the need since the 147gr HST load performs perfectly fine in every gel test I’ve seen.
 
My preference is Gold Dot or HST, either normal or +P. They shoot about the same for me. I have switched from the Shield to the Hellcat and both brands and rounds are fine.
 
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Just to be contrary ... 😁

It is my opinion only that bullet weight is not the most important factor.

Talking "EDC for defensive purposes" : I buy my ammo based primarily on how it performs without narrowing my selection criteria to any single factor (like bullet weight).

I do as much research as I can to ensure that the bullet will accomplish its intended purpose effectively with minimal risk of potential negative consequences.

I know that's not the answer you asked for, but I felt I needed to offer it.
 
You wouldn’t be wrong going with either weight in a quality bullet (HST, gold dot) but if you have the luxury of choosing, the I would go with the 147 for a shorter barrel. There is a lot of data out there that shows heavier works better in shorter barrels.
 
Ammunition to Go has a pretty good collection of gel test data on their site for the most popular loads. They publish the gun they used for each test as well and I think many of them were tested with a Shield. Which I appreciate since that's what I carry. With 147gr Rangers.

That being said, scrolling through their data it looks like any quality 124 or 147 grain load will perform well enough that the bad guy won't know the difference.
 
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As long as you have a reputable brand (Gold Dot preferably but HST also), I wouldn’t get *too* caught up with bullet weight.

Now with subcompact barrels, I’d go with 124/147gr (I like +ps in heavier bullets but whatever works) for the extra penetration when you’re not getting the full velocity/potential out of the bullet with the shorter barrel
 
I settled for Gold Dot 124 +P just because... $ + reputation + availability. Reliable feeding and penetration are most important, so any original hot parabellum ball will do nicely. As I understand it, expansion is more of a safety concern for limiting pass through injury to innocent bystanders. How exactly that comes into play with so many misses in typical cop shootouts remains a puzzle unexplained. One important consideration not mentioned is nickel plating, in a gun that sits around especially. I had a brass cased bullet corrode into the chamber of bedside companion that would not budge. No doubt it would have fired and ejected but corrosion might have jammed the second shot.
 
Relapse said:
I settled for Gold Dot 124 +P just because... $ + reputation + availability. Reliable feeding and penetration are most important, so any original hot parabellum ball will do nicely. As I understand it, expansion is more of a safety concern for limiting pass through injury to innocent bystanders. How exactly that comes into play with so many misses in typical cop shootouts remains a puzzle unexplained. One important consideration not mentioned is nickel plating, in a gun that sits around especially. I had a brass cased bullet corrode into the chamber of bedside companion that would not budge. No doubt it would have fired and ejected but corrosion might have jammed the second shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how much the nickel plating really comes into play. I bought a batch of Gold Dot surplus that was part of a government contract overrun. It wasn't in nickel cases. In my opinion the nickel cases are more about looking pretty, being easier to see in low light while doing a visual chamber check and way for the manufacturer to justify charging the consumer 300% more for each round over practice ball.
I'd expect any gun that sits around in conditions that would corrode brass ammo that badly is also probably rusting shut with gummed up or dried up lube. Murphy says if there's neglect involved what seems like one problem is likely five or more. What can go wrong will.
 
Timfoilhat said:
I'm not sure how much the nickel plating really comes into play. I bought a batch of Gold Dot surplus that was part of a government contract overrun. It wasn't in nickel cases. In my opinion the nickel cases are more about looking pretty, being easier to see in low light while doing a visual chamber check and way for the manufacturer to justify charging the consumer 300% more for each round over practice ball.
I'd expect any gun that sits around in conditions that would corrode brass ammo that badly is also probably rusting shut with gummed up or dried up lube. Murphy says if there's neglect involved what seems like one problem is likely five or more. What can go wrong will.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but nickel does not rust or corrode, whereas brass does. Pretty is as pretty does. Could have been remaining g solvent in the case mentioned.
 
I prefer 124 +p. Increases the chances of a hole in the front and a hole in the back. The back hole being larger and leaking fluid faster.
 
Duty ammo from my department is 147 gr gold dots. Last year they could not get them from Speer so they ordered Winchester Ranger 147 grain.I like them and the department furnished them for my off duty pistol ,a P365 Sig.I just got 500 rounds and now have them in all my 9mm carry guns. They work in all my semi-autos
 
Civil Defense 50gr +P fragmenting HP, hearing a first hand account from an ER Dr who saw someone get hit, and die, with one of these made my decision
 
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Federal Micro 150 gr. HST (P9HSTSS) for compacts. They claim “Extreme bullet expansion and consistent penetration depths” I have recently switched to these from 147 gr HST In my P365...I will say that In my experience, the expansion and weight retention has been impressive.
 
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We have reams of data here on pressures, velocities, and penetration. Also the all important terminal wound ballistics. Mike can fill you in on all the numbers if you like numbers. Remember our recovery box Exactly duplicates field autopsies. Here's what we now know about handguns for defense...nothing touches the Lehigh Extremes. Mike has carry loads for us that run 1,400+ 9 and .45. The wounds are devastating. The make up of the round is such that it "fools" the feed ramp into thinking it is a piece of Ball.
The best of all worlds..Dead Reliability...Penetration....Massive wound channels.

Remember....We must all seek our Own salvation...Me and mine use Lehigh.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
We have reams of data here on pressures, velocities, and penetration. Also the all important terminal wound ballistics. Mike can fill you in on all the numbers if you like numbers. Remember our recovery box Exactly duplicates field autopsies. Here's what we now know about handguns for defense...nothing touches the Lehigh Extremes. Mike has carry loads for us that run 1,400+ 9 and .45. The wounds are devastating. The make up of the round is such that it "fools" the feed ramp into thinking it is a piece of Ball.
The best of all worlds..Dead Reliability...Penetration....Massive wound channels.

Remember....We must all seek our Own salvation...Me and mine use Lehigh.
Click to expand...
Extreme defense or penetrators?
 
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