Charlotte Officers Shot

I’m good friends with a retired US Marshal. It’s an absolute shame that several folks just lost their family members, friends, and colleagues serving a warrant over some felon in possession of firearms.
 
How many times have we said there shouldn’t any such thing as a “prohibited person” when it comes to firearms. Either you’re a free citizen with all rights or you’re too dangerous to be out in society. Obviously these guys are among the latter.
 
Gardner said:
Meaning?
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Meaning that 70 or so law enforcement vehicles were called to this scene today when, in my opinion, if this would have been executed differently, all of those resources could have been used elsewhere.

Diversionary tactics is what I was referring to.
 
Rumor mill … felon weapons charge … rolled up and engaged the first guy on the front steps ((handgun) who didn’t last long. Then shots came from inside with a second shooter (long gun) who had the high ground. Supposedly CMPD had a shooter setup in a house across the street trying to get
 
Jerzsubbie said:
Just heard about this as well. Super early, not many details out yet.

www.wsoctv.com

Sources: Marshal killed, numerous officers hurt in east Charlotte shooting

"Numerous" officers were shot Monday afternoon in an east Charlotte neighborhood, police say.
www.wsoctv.com www.wsoctv.com
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Damn. This article says 3 officers down. When the feds roll, especially marshals, they usually go loaded for bear. I don’t know about tipped off but there might have been a lookout or even surveillance in todays day and age.

That is a big deal. Losing one is always tragic. 3 KIA and 5 more wounded is… almost unheard of I think outside some very high profile shootings. This will be studied and taught in police academies.

Prayers for the officers’ families.
 
NCFubar said:
Rumor mill … felon weapons charge … rolled up and engaged the first guy on the front steps ((handgun) who didn’t last long. Then shots came from inside with a second shooter (long gun) who had the high ground. Supposedly CMPD had a shooter setup in a house across the street trying to get
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Fox reported that the homeowner said they had to take that sniper out of the house, he must have been injured.
 
Qball said:
Meaning that 70 or so law enforcement vehicles were called to this scene today when, in my opinion, if this would have been executed differently, all of those resources could have been used elsewhere.

Diversionary tactics is what I was referring to.
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I would suggest that the 70 or so LEO didn't show up until AFTER the bad guy had killed 3 officers.

Should they have had hug and called it a day?
 
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Qball said:
Meaning that 70 or so law enforcement vehicles were called to this scene today when, in my opinion, if this would have been executed differently, all of those resources could have been used elsewhere.

Diversionary tactics is what I was referring to.
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Most major departments have contingencies for that sort of thing and it is regularly discussed. Calling in other agencies, reserve officers and that sort of thing.

A huge concern while GWOT was still going were VBIEDs. Mass shooting, first responders swarm to help, crowds spill out. Get people with the secondary, similar idea to what happened in the movie “The Kingdom.”

Idk if this was a true ambush today as it doesn’t seem they had an avenue of escape. Just goes to show how quickly things turn on a dime. I hope there are a lot of lessons learned to help prevent this in the future. But sometimes shit just happens. Not that it will be much consolation to the families.
 
1075tech said:
Could there have been CMPD on the task force?

All I know about these "operations" is what I've seen on TV. But many times they have "local" officers assigned to these task forces
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This. I don't wish it on ANY brother or sister, but many, many times I read about "US Marshal Shot" or "US Marshal Killed" it is an initial press release and ends up being a local LEO (or LEOs ) who is/are deputized on a local Task Force. I hear of MANY more local LEOs shot/killed on local TFs than actual Deputy United States Marshals.

It's all rumor mill and early in the game so it might (LIKELY) will change but (putting several sources together) possibly an actual DUSM and two State personnel? killed(?) A CMPD officer is one wounded/critical. (?)
 
Gardner said:
I would suggest that the 70 or so LEO didn't show up until AFTER the bad guy had killed 3 officers.

Should they have had hug and called it a day?
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You misunderstood my point.

If I were part of a foreign terrorist organization, and was watching this unfold today, I would definitely be thinking that if shooting some law enforcement officers is going to spark that kind of response, then how about sending out numerous members to various locations drawing resources away from a main very large target.

It was one individual subject as far as I have ascertained. In my opinion, those US Marshals would be at home with their families had this whole mess been carried out differently.
 
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Big Dave said:
This. I don't wish it on ANY brother or sister, but many, many times I read about "US Marshal Shot" or "US Marshal Killed" it is an initial press release and ends up being a local LEO (or LEOs ) who is/are deputized on a local Task Force. I hear of MANY more local LEOs shot/killed on local TFs than actual Deputy United States Marshals.

It's all rumor mill and early in the game so it might (LIKELY) will change but (putting several sources together) possibly an actual DUSM and two State personnel? killed(?) A CMPD officer is one wounded/critical. (?)
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You nailed it.
 
Just hit me … why were US Marshalls serving a Felony Weapons Charge warrant? If the Feds are looking the person might not be just a local thug. It would be interesting to hear the story behind the warrant.
 
Qball said:
If I were part of a foreign terrorist organization, and was watching this unfold today, I would definitely be thinking that if shooting some law enforcement officers is going to spark that kind of response, then how about sending out numerous members to various locations drawing resources away from a main very large target.
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You don’t think they’ve already analyzed Pavlov Pig and his response to hell and back?
 
Qball said:
You misunderstood my point.

If I were part of a foreign terrorist organization, and was watching this unfold today, I would definitely be thinking that if shooting some law enforcement officers is going to spark that kind of response, then how about sending out numerous members to various locations drawing resources away from a main very large target.

It was one individual subject as far as I have ascertained. In my opinion, those US Marshals would be at home with their families had this whole mess been carried out differently.
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I think you need to loosen the tin foil hat
 
Gardner said:
I think you need to loosen the tin foil hat
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I think you need to stop allowing your emotions to dictate how you respond.

I’m not sure what I posted that triggered you. Three, for now, innocent individuals got killed today and I personally think it shouldn’t have happened based on what I have read here and on the news.

Was serving a warrant to one individual at a residence worth three lives?
 
Gardner said:
I think you need to loosen the tin foil hat
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Dave was right-on with what he stated and it ain’t “tin-foil hat” stuff.

Do you not believe there are cells..in this country…right now, who pay attention to incidents like this and use that information for what they have planned in the past or are planning for the future?
 
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Qball said:
I think you need to stop allowing your emotions to dictate how you respond.

I’m not sure what I posted that triggered you. Three, for now, innocent individuals got killed today and I personally think it shouldn’t have happened based on what I have read here and on the news.

Was serving a warrant to one individual at a residence worth three lives?
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The morons with tin must think so, as they never seem to adjust tactics 🙄
 
NCFubar said:
Just hit me … why were US Marshalls serving a Felony Weapons Charge warrant? If the Feds are looking the person might not be just a local thug. It would be interesting to hear the story behind the warrant.
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Federal charges I imagine
 
It is a shame that their felonies did not warrant sitting in prison. I hope this is not a situation where they were released awaiting trial, and/or illegal cartel members or something similar that should have prevented all of this.
 
Just wondering about setting up a sniper in a neighbors house. How does that come about?

Certainly a sad time for wives, children, and parents of these officers. Lots of devastated people tonight who loved someone. Not something I could even image.
 
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Ferrisfan said:
It is a shame that their felonies did not warrant sitting in prison. I hope this is not a situation where they were released awaiting trial, and/or illegal cartel members or something similar that should have prevented all of this.
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The information I have gotten is that the two NC DAC officers who were killed were TFOs assigned to the Special Operations section of DAC. That likely makes them, at least originally, probation officers. If they were involved there is a good chance that someone on the other end of this was on probation or post-release from prison and was in violation (likely due at least in part to the new firearms charges). Perhaps I will get more information tomorrow.
 
Qball said:
You misunderstood my point.

If I were part of a foreign terrorist organization, and was watching this unfold today, I would definitely be thinking that if shooting some law enforcement officers is going to spark that kind of response, then how about sending out numerous members to various locations drawing resources away from a main very large target.

It was one individual subject as far as I have ascertained. In my opinion, those US Marshals would be at home with their families had this whole mess been carried out differently.
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Gardner said:
I think you need to loosen the tin foil hat
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"Day of Wrath" by Fortschen

Summary: Small 3 man teams initiate attacks at multiple schools. Chaos ensues as parents panic and rush to retrieve their children. Traffic gridlock and depletion of police and fire/rescue/hospital resources. Sniper teams then attack at will during gridlock.


Who's going to cross cover a city like Charlotte? And what if 1 operator puts 1 or more rounds through a school window in the surrounding towns? Just fire some rounds at a distance and leave. Then what does that leave open? Major downtown structures, event venues, everything.
 
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georgel said:
Who's going to cross cover a city like Charlotte? And what if 1 operator puts 1 or more rounds through a school window in the surrounding towns? Just fire some rounds at a distance and leave. Then what does that leave open? Major downtown structures, event venues, everything.
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Create a little pandemonium like that and actually snipe a few response teams for good measure and watch the hilarity ensue.
 
Does anyone really believe that the folks managing incident response don’t consider the risk of coordinated attacks or even opportunistic attacks or lawlessness? We’ve been talking about it for decades.
 
Yes, and the above mentioned secondary attack when responders arrive is common in the middle east.

Most people don't realize that resources are limited. There are only so many police/fire/EMT/hospital resources available. And they are designed to handle day to day loads with some capacity for surges. But, a city wide event is way beyond capacity. It's simple economics. Can't have 1000's of staff on standby doing nothing most of the time. That's why the Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) program was created. The basic scenario is that professional services are overwhelmed and to not expect relief for days.
 
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